Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]


Welcome to Rabbit Addict.

The forums are a place to discuss all things related to rabbits and cavy. From breeding to pet, emergency to genetics questions. Our members are a mix of genetics enthusiasts, breeders, and pet owners looking to share their animals.

Hop on in and join the fun!
We don't bite. I promise.



You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as joining the discussion, customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Color help?; Silver kit in litter of blue & black
Topic Started: Oct 8 2012, 07:28 AM (643 Views)
Kyl1303
New to the Addiction
[ * ]
Hello from Australia to all bunny addicts!!
My 12 year old daughter has started her bunny breeding business and it is going extremely well!!
We have a beautiful black buck and his girls are seal point, blue, sooty fawn & Chocolate
We're finding he throws beautiful black and blue kits
We have a little silver kit at the moment wondering if anyone is familiar with the color?? All the others are blue and black !
Thanks for your help
Attached to this post:
Attachments: image.jpg (156.5 KB)
Attachments: image.jpg (158.02 KB)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
NeuBunny
Genetics Geek!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
lilac? which is the mom?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kyl1303
New to the Addiction
[ * ]
Mum is blue!!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
NeuBunny
Genetics Geek!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
next to the blue siblings this really looks lilac to me. blue mum and black dad can give lilac (only) if both are chocolate carriers. if the black buck were carrying chocolate, I would expect you would get some chocolates (50% odds for each kit) with the chocolate doe.

blue self chin or blue seal are also sometimes more silvery than a blue -- but if the black buck were carrying recessive c genes, I would have expected those to show in his kits from the seal point (50% odds he passes his 'hidden c' to each kit -- so either his hidden recessive or the chl from the seal point would show).

also possible the kit is just a lighter blue.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kyl1303
New to the Addiction
[ * ]
Wow! Thanks for your help, our chocolate hasn't kindled yet, so I'm interested to see what color they are! And our seal point had 2 blues, 3 blacks and a red eye white.
The last litter the blue doe had was also blue and blacks but we had one kit that was blue with white tips, blue steel I think it's called??
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
NeuBunny
Genetics Geek!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
with a REW kit, both parents had to be carrying the REW (c) gene. Which makes your black buck Cc. Which means he isn't carrying chl, so the kit isn't blue seal. But it also means your seal point isn't a genetic seal point -- which has to be chlchl (aaB-chlchlD-ee). She's likely a self chin point, which I'm told can be shown as seal point (in mini lops at least) ... aaB-chdcDdee. Or possible she's a really dark sable point aaB-chlcDdee.

Black buck = aa B- Cc Dd E-
Seal (self chin) point doe = aa B- chdc Dd ee

steel - hate steel genetics :nothappy: - how sure are you it was steel? blue with white tips to all hairs does sound like blue steel (A-B-chd-ddEs-) and I can't imagine what else it would be -- unless it were a blue self chin (which can go through some weird color shifts but usually end up blue). Photo of that baby? If the kit was truly steel then one of the parents must be a masked agouti A-EsEs. My bet would be the doe as you didn't get anything odd (agouti, steel) when you bred the buck to the seal point. Do you know the background of either the black buck or blue doe? Does either have steel/agouti in their pedigree?

With the buck carrying c, the chd gene needed for steel had to come from the blue mom - so she must be Cchd (blue carrying the chin gene). which ups the odds that the silvery kit is a blue self chin (aaB-chdcddEsE) - though it could be blue steel (AaB-chdcddEsE) as well - doesn't look like blue with white-tipped hairs in the photo, but the kit is too young to really see tipping clearly.

So your blue doe is likely Aa B- Cchd dd EsEs.

None of the above precludes the kit being lilac (aabbC-ddE-) or lilac-based (--bb--dd--) -- black buck and blue doe could still be hiding chocolate (Bb). Thus lilac self chin and lilac steel are also possibilities.




Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sidd-says-gimme
Member Avatar
sidd says stay gold
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
In some places, our sable points are called seal points. Perhaps that's the case in Australia as well?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kyl1303
New to the Addiction
[ * ]
Wow that's a massive amount of info! Thank you so much!
Our blues are such a clean color, when the little white tipped one was born we originally thought agouti but she did have very white tips, hard to see in the pics, first was the white tip second is one of our blue for color comparison, 3rd is our apparent seal point??
Attached to this post:
Attachments: image.jpg (134.86 KB)
Attachments: image.jpg (129.66 KB)
Attachments: image.jpg (151.4 KB)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kyl1303
New to the Addiction
[ * ]
Oh and just found out our buck came from a litter of 2 black, 2 rew and a chocolate
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sidd-says-gimme
Member Avatar
sidd says stay gold
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Is it just me or does the first little one look like a siamese sable or seal? No idea if that's possible, for some reason it just reminds me of one. A couple in the litter don't really look "black" to me, either. Siamese sables are really funky as babies, usually are born a blue-ish color and sometimes look like they have ticking as they grow up. It doesn't look dilute, at least.

Mom looks blue point (dilute of sable point)?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
NeuBunny
Genetics Geek!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I'm not used to looking at steel kits - so I don't know to what extent their colors shift, but it doesn't look steel to me. Also looks too dark for blue -- despite the tipping it looks darker overall than the blue kit in the next picture, and I would expect blue steel to look much lighter than blue. Seal (both the true seal and self chin) seem to have that 'in between' color and are infamous for changing color as they grow. Given the buck is carrying REW (Cc), the 'steel' kit can't be genetic seal (chlchl) so I'm betting on the self chin (chdc)

That would make your blue doe = aa B- Cchd dd E-

With a chocolate sibling, odds are pretty high (>66%) that your buck is a chocolate carrier. If one of his parents was chocolate he's definitely a carrier.

The black buck = aa B(b) Cc Dd E- () in a genotype mean 'likely'

That would mean the 'tipped' kit was a self chin 'seal' -- aaB-chdcDdE-

Given that your current silvery kit is lighter than your blues, and MUCH lighter than your previous sibling self chin, I'm going back to my original thought that the kit looks like a lilac. Check eye color! USUALLY I find the eye color to be the 'giveaway' for lilacs. Lilacs have light eyes with a purplish cast (lilac) -- seals (and black-based self chins) have dark eyes, and blue seals (& blue self chins) have grey, marbled eyes or blue eyes with a 'sepia' cast making them look darker than typical blue. IF the kit is lilac, then your blue doe also carries chocolate (Bb).

Your seal point doe looks much lighter than the ones I've seen (especially on the ears)...perhaps Sidd is right in thinking it's a naming difference (between breeds/countries?) and she is what I would call a sable point (chlc) -- that would make sense of the kit colors...

sable point doe = aa B- chlc Dd ee

I can't tell from the photo whether she is more brown (nose looks brown) or more blue (ears look blue). If more bluish, we would call her a smoke pearl point -- aaB-chlcddee.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kyl1303
New to the Addiction
[ * ]
Geez never thought rabbits would be such hard work!!
Just to get a few things clear, the black buck is the only boy we have so he is daddy to all
The blue tipped and lilac?? Came from a blue doe, and her blacks are def black its just a crap pic!

The rew came from the doe we thought was seal point but now seams to be sable point, she also had very clean blues and blacks

The little "lilac" one has just open her eyes and they appear blue to me at the moment, but will check her in the next few days when they are open all the way!
This bunny stuff is hard work lol! Thanks all for your help!
Ill pop a few of our collection up!!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kyl1303
New to the Addiction
[ * ]
This is mum to the white tipped and the possible lilac
And an updated pic of the kit
Attached to this post:
Attachments: image.jpg (161.44 KB)
Attachments: image.jpg (169.18 KB)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kyl1303
New to the Addiction
[ * ]
Our black buck
Attached to this post:
Attachments: image.jpg (156.14 KB)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kyl1303
New to the Addiction
[ * ]
Our sooty fawn & chocolate doe's
Attached to this post:
Attachments: image.jpg (138.9 KB)
Attachments: image.jpg (155.74 KB)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Genetics and Colors · Next Topic »
Add Reply