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Shaded/REW/PW
Topic Started: Dec 27 2012, 04:54 PM (493 Views)
sidd-says-gimme
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sidd says stay gold
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Like always, I have a hard time with these colors and won't understand unless someone spells it out for me. :shy:

So, if you breed a pointed white/himi rabbit to a non-himi/carrier, what chance do you have of the babies carrying pointed white? Same with chl.. what chance do the babies have of carrying shaded with a sable point parent?

What can you get if you breed a rabbit that carries chl to a rabbit that carries PW or REW? What if the other rabbit IS pointed white or REW?

Any info that can be provided would be appreciated. ^_^
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TherapyBunnies
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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To start these are all on the C gene. In order of dominance (1) C= Full Color, chd = Chinchilla (Dark), chl = Sable (or Chinchilla Light), ch = Pointed White, c = REW.

If rabbit is Seal chlchl then you will get a Sables &/or Seals depending on the breeding. If it is Sable carrying PW chlch & you breed it to a PW ch_ each kit has a 25% chance of being a sable, 50% of bring pointed & 25% chance to get unknown.
PW carrying PW chch to another PW or REW will have all PWs.
PW carrying REW chc to a REW will have 25% chance of PW & 75% chance of REW.
REW to REW will have all REW.

An example I just had; Sable Point carrying REW chlc to a REW cc - 1 Smoke Pearl (Sable Color) & 4 REW for a total of 5 in the litter.
Cara
Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Therapy Bunny Breeder, Chaplain.
Lionheads are my focus & Giant Chinchilla is my son's.
My daughter's focus is Mini Lops and she has couple of show / pet rabbits.
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sidd-says-gimme
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sidd says stay gold
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PWs carry things? What is chch and chc?
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Himadri Hollands
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POWITH!!
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PWs can only carry REW-- not shaded or chin. Everything else on the C-series besides REW is dominant over PW.

c(ch)c(ch) would be double PW (so two PW genes)-- c(ch)c would be PW carrying REW.
Edited by Himadri Hollands, Jan 8 2013, 12:10 PM.
Laura Lyon
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NeuBunny
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Just cause I feel like playing with a genetics problem this morning...lets step through the examples you cite...

Worrying just about the C-genes, here's all the bunnies in the questions: (to clarify - I may use pointed white, PW, and himi interchangeably). Worrying just about the C genes means we are assuming we aren't dealing with vienna or any other genes that could 'mess with' the expression of pointed white.

(A) Pointed white - two possible genotypes (A1) chch (two ch genes) and (A2) chc (pointed white carrying REW)

(B) REW - genotype cc

(C) Seal (not mentioned, but lets be complete) chlchl

(D) Shaded - (D1) chlch (carrying himi) and (D2) chlc (carrying REW)

(E) Any other color Pointed white carrier - (E1) Cch (full color carrying himi) and (E2) chdch (chin* carrying himi)

* note that all the chins here are likely self chins -- chinchilla expresses properly only with agouti (A gene) - which shouldn't be in pointed or shaded rabbits (which should all be self-based aa)!

(F) Any other color REW carrier - (F1) Cc (full color) and (F2) chdc (chin carrying REW)

(G) Any other color shaded carrier (G1) Cchl (full color carrying shaded) and (G2) chdchl (chin carrying shaded)

(H) Any other color NOT carrying shaded, himi or REW - (H1) CC (full color), (H2) Cchd (full color carrying chin), and (H3) chdchd (chin genes only)


Question 1: If you breed a pointed white/himi rabbit to a non-himi/carrier, what chance do you have of the babies carrying pointed white?

Making an assumption here that by non-himi/carrier you mean a non-himi that carries himi (as opposed to a non-himi that doesn't even carry it - which I would call a non-himi/non-carrier).

Rephrasing in genetic terms A1 or A2 (chch or chc) x D1 (chlch), E1 (Cch) or E2 (chdch). -- you don't need to worry about the REWs here, as REW can never carry himi (because it is more recessive).

For this problem, we don't care about whether the bunnies dominant C-gene is C, chd or chl. I collapse the problem by writing all three of those as Xch.

We DO care whether the himi is chch or chc - as that will affect the outcome.

A1 (chch) x Xch = 50% Xch and 50% chch. Half the kits will be pointed white and the other half will carry it.

A2 (chc) x Xch = 25% Xch ('other' carrying pointed white), 25% Xc ('other' carrying REW), 25% chch (pointed white), and 25% chc (pointed white). Half the kits are pointed white and the other half look like the other parent. Of those looking like the other parent, half are PW carriers, but no way to know which ones!

Question 2: What chance do the babies have of carrying shaded with a sable point parent?

First, I should point out that sable points do NOT necessarily have a ch gene at all. They look pointed because of the interaction between the shaded gene (chl) and a totally separate gene called non extension (written e). Sable points can have the genotype chlchee (carrying himi) or chlcee (carrying REW). To the question of whether or not they carry shaded, the e gene is irrelevant -- just keep in mind that if that ee gets separated, then they will be regular siamese sable or smoke pearl shadeds rather than sable point!

Worrying only about the sable point parent and only about the C-gene gives either chlch (shaded carrying himi) or chlc (shaded carrying REW). In both cases, the shaded gene is passed to half the offspring. Whether that chl gene is expressed or carried depends on what genes come from the other parent.

For the offspring that got the chl gene from this parent (50%): If the other parent gives the kit a more dominant gene (C or chd) then the chl will be carried. If it gives the kit another shaded gene, the kit will be seal. If it gives the kit a more recessive gene (ch or c) then the shaded gene will express.

The other half of the offspring will be shaded and/or shaded carriers ONLY if the other parent was also either shaded or a shaded carrier.

Question 3: What can you get if you breed a rabbit that carries chl to a rabbit that is PW or REW?

A rabbit that carries chl is either Cchl (full color - G1) or chdchl (chin - G2). Seal (chlchl) is not considered to be a 'carrier' because the chl is expressing. Likewise, chlch and chlc are both shaded (not shaded carriers).

Rewriting in genetic symbols G1 (Cchl) or G2 (chdchl) x A1 (chch), A2 (chc) or B (cc)

I'm going to shortcut this problem by collapsing the genes MORE DOMINANT than chl (i.e., C and chd) as D (for dominant) and collapsing the genes more recessive than chl (i.e., ch and c) to r (for recessive)

Rewriting this way simplifies the question to Dchl x rr.
Offspring then are Dr and chlr.
The Dr offspring are NEITHER shaded nor shaded carriers - they are carriers for the more recessive himi or REW genes. The chl offspring ARE shaded. This cross produces NO shaded carriers. It is a really important test cross to know if you are trying to get rid of shaded genes in your breeding program.


Question 4: What can you get if you breed a rabbit that carries chl to a rabbit that carries PW or REW?

short answer - just about anything except PW and REW.

Cchl or chdchl bred to Cch, chdch, chlch, Cc, chdc, chlc, or chc.

Pairwise:
Cchl x Cch = CC, Cch, Cchl and chlch
Cchl x chdch = Cchd, Cch, chdchl, chlch
Cchl x chlch = Cchl, Cch, chlchl, chlch
Cchl x Cc = CC, Cc, Cchl, chlc
Cchl x chdc = Cchd, Cc, chdchl, chlc
Cchl x chlc = Cchl, Cc, chlchl, chlc
Cchl x chc = Cch, Cc, chlch, chlc
chdchl x Cch = Cchd, Cchl, chdch, chlch
chdchl x chdch = chdchd, chdchl, chdch, chlch
chdchl x chlch = chdchl, chdch, chlchl, chlch
chdchl x Cc = Cchd, Cchl, chdc, chlc
chdchl x chdc = chdchd, chdchl, chdc, chlc
chdchl x chlc = chdchl, chdc, chlchl, chlc
chdchl x chc = chdch, chdc, chlch, chlc



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