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Why does it never go the way you expect??; A rant about genetics not even color related for once!
Topic Started: Jan 10 2013, 01:35 PM (208 Views)
MrsSmithsRabbits
Get a Life, Seriously
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So I started with Mini lops almost two years ago now. It was a little over a year ago I realized what I had bought as "pedigreed Mini lops" barely even resembled the breed in appearance and certainly didn't in personality. Luckaly before I could just give up I ran across a website called Schmidt's Mini lops. It wasn't a fancy site but something caught my eye and I emailed the owners. Pam replied and we quickly developed a friendship, emailing frequently. She got me in contact with a second breeder and arranged transport for a couple buns from the other breeder to her place where I picked them up along with a jr buck, two jr does I bought from her, she gave me a little REW doe because she had a random litter of REW and only wanted to keep one. With the buck and three does from her and the buck and doe from the other breeder ( an amazing breeder as well), with two of the does bred to two of Pams bucks I felt I had a great start on my new mini lop line. That was last February, Those litters where born last March and we have thinned out the 16 born down to 6 four of which will be going to new homes this spring hopefully. Leaving me with a beautiful broken silver tipped blue steel doe who has already won a leg, and a very nice Solid gold tipped black steel buck (unrelated to the doe) as well as the original stock from Last february. Dixon is a broken smoke pearl buck I got from Pam. He is my baby, won his first leg last year ( first win I have ever had) I bred him this fall to two of my does. Moppet, the broken black ( self steel) and Sparkles the GTBS. I have been rather disappointing in both litters. First litter was 5, 2 charlies, one very pet quality and two that are still iffy if they will make the cut or not.
Even more disappointed with the second one, 9 born, 9 lived, some of their ears don't even lay all the way down, those that do are slipped a lot, two have pinched hindquarters though neither parent does . Dixon has a bit of slipped crown, that to me is his one fault. Sparkles has an amazing crown and a good body her faults are hollow loins which is something she passed on to a good majority of her first litter (4 out of 7)and pear shaped head which she passed on to 3 of her first litter and at least 2 of these 9 but she also passed on her awesome crown, great shoulders and nice round butt. Dixon had the shorter body, full loins and the wide head she is lacking I thought I had a good match, but at 12 weeks I only see two worth keeping back to show ( and I am not that picky at 12 weeks) I usually keep back the best half a litter till 4-6 months old to be sure to give everyone time to fully develop. I am working on pictures ( camera died when I was uploading) I will add the pictures tomorrow probably. mainly I am just venting, but I do wonder why when I combine two generally nice rabbits I am getting crap. Not just one or two crap but whole litters of Crap and not like "kinda crap" but like narrow head, pinched hindquarters, narrow crown, slipped crown, major crap, not the kind of crap you even want to try to work with.
Here are a couple pictures of the parents and one of the first litter of Moppet and Dixon.
Moppet and Dixon's litter when they where like 5 weeks old ( they are four months old now I have been lax with pictures lately)

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Dixon and Sparkles parents of second litter
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Thanks for listening!
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NeuBunny
Genetics Geek!
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The kind of breeding where you cross two really nice rabbits and get mostly poor ones (with random faults) is often a sign of inbreeding (or really close linebreeding) -- aligning the hidden recessive genes. Of course, those type of breedings can result in the rare awesome baby (when all the good modifiers line up). Folks who do those deliberately are prepared to cull hard (they are deliberately getting those bad genes lined up so they can get rid of them).

Anyway, doesn't sound like inbreeding is the case here, just a thought to ponder.
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MrsSmithsRabbits
Get a Life, Seriously
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Yeah no inbreeding at all on the first one from two out crossed lines, the second litter has none shown on a three generation pedigree anyway. Here is a link to the other topic I started with pictures of the babies from the second litter.

http://s4.zetaboards.com/Rabbit_Addict/topic/9806720/1/#new
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OakRidgeRabbits
Hopelessly Addicted to the Fuzz
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My experience has been the opposite. I work with Hollands mostly. When I have tried outcrossing rabbits, I usually got kits with poor overall body type or major faults. However, after selling those rabbits and rebuilding the herd with rabbits based on one line, and linebreeding from there, the results have been MUCH better and much more consistent. Not that there won't be one "eh" kit here or there, but I'm a lot happier with the results of those closer related breedings.
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NeuBunny
Genetics Geek!
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Don't get me wrong - linebreeding is good. Aligning bad recessives makes it easier to remove those from your herd - and to keep them out. But when it gets too close (full sibling crosses, multiple father-daughter crosses, pedigrees where it seems like the same rabbit shows up everywhere, etc) then you suddenly get all the bad recessives aligning at once.

Outcrossing for 'parts' - this one has a good head, this one good shoulders - can work, but just as often you get both bad traits. And being unrelated, even crossing two good heads can give you a bad one if its two different genes giving each their great head... bunny 1 (AB) has a good head thanks to gene A, bunny 2 (CD) has a good head thanks to gene C, but they pass B and D to the offspring giving bleah.
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