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Snuffles Vaccine?
Topic Started: Jun 1 2013, 09:08 AM (3,433 Views)
Master Skywalker
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Hopelessly Addicted to the Fuzz
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At the last show I went to they were offering vaccines for the snuffles. They said it was USDA approved, and I'd never heard about it so I was wondering if anyone has used the vaccine yet and if it worked it affected their rabbits at all.
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sidd-says-gimme
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sidd says stay gold
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Haven't tried it but I did watch most of this video on it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0DKSCsL5Vw
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Little Rascal's Rabbitry
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Way to Be!!!!
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My herd is vaccinated for it. So far, so good. I had an infected doe far away from my herd that I kept to test it on. Her symptoms cleared up in 3 days. She's still staying away from my herd but I think it'll be a cool test.
Little Rascal's Rabbitry
Specializing in Black Banded Dwarf Hotots, and Holland Lops in Sable Point and Black Tort
http://rascalsrabbitry.weebly.com
http://www.littlerascalsrabbitry.blogspot.com
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NeuBunny
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The vaccine prevents the disease in most cases (by bolstering the rabbit's immune response), but will not cure it in an already infected animal.

It is a 'dead cell' vaccine which works by exposing the animal's immune system to the proteins found in the disease organism -- so that the rabbit's immune system recognizes the disease and begins fighting it immediately rather than after a time lag.

Glad your infected doe cleared up, but it's very unlikely you have the vaccine to thank for that. You need to assume she is still a potential carrier for the disease - though if your other rabbits are vaccinated, she could safely live with them. You still need to keep her away from shows and other unvaccinated rabbits.

I've read some debate as to whether use of the vaccine to treat infected animals will mask symptoms and effectively cause them to become carriers of the disease. There's nothing in the theory of how this vaccine works to suggest it will mask symptoms.

This is a VERY new vaccine - though based on standard, proven methods. I get the impression it was pretty much rushed through trials here and there is a lot of debate as to how safe it really is.

With all vaccines, on the level of the individual you have to weigh the likelihood that it will save them from a disease against the likelihood that they will suffer side effects.
On a population level, you have to weigh the potential to limit the disease repositories (higher population of properly vaccinated animals means lower numbers of carriers and lower exposure of the whole population to the disease and lower transmission) against the population genetics of immune response (vaccinated animals are not culled based on susceptibility to the disease - animals with a weak immune response are equally likely to survive and reproduce as animals with a strong immune response).
For meat animals, you have additional considerations of the safety of the vaccine (including its potential 'inert' ingredients like mercury) to human consumers.

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BunnyRabbitPassion
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Any more news on this vaccines? Little Rascal's Rabbitry, how are your rabbits doing? Any side effects?
I would love to have my rabbits vaccinated.
Is it becoming popular enough that I can expect to find a place near me that carries it? I live in California.
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NeuBunny
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It is available - I believe you (or your vet if you only have a few rabbits - I believe there is a minimum order) still need to order it direct from the manufacturer. I have an angora friend on another forum that is in CA and has gotten it for her herd, so it is available to you there. Tried, but can't find the link she had posted (that's a facebook forum, so strings get buried after a few days) - hopefully a google search will turn up the link? -- 2 doses must be given 3 weeks apart. If I recall correctly she said the price was running about $1 per dose.
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ZRabbits
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Jury here is still out on the vaccine. Have to do much research before I decide that my herd should be vaccinated. Will definitely talk to many breeders, especially show breeders regarding this. Know that there are many concerned about bringing their rabbits to shows, myself included. Will it stop me, no, but really need to be proactive and learn about what's best for my show rabbits and their health. I'm seriously thinking of bringing one of my kits to a show in September, to get hand on evaluation, but hesitate due the Buck's one time "wry neck" incident and the kits being possible carriers. As some might not think of others and their stock, I do.

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BunnyRabbitPassion
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I'm wondering, since this vaccine causes your rabbit to become a carrier of pasteurella, are you then put in a place where you have to vaccinate all your rabbits? If the mommas a carrier, couldn't she get all her kits who aren't vaccinated sick? I sell the rabbits I don't keep for show as pets. I would feel terrible if someone bought a sick rabbit from me. That would mean, vaccinating either a very young rabbit, or keeping the rabbits tell they are older and it's harder to find them homes.
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fuzzypatch
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NeuBunny
Jun 29 2013, 08:30 AM
Glad your infected doe cleared up, but it's very unlikely you have the vaccine to thank for that. You need to assume she is still a potential carrier for the disease - though if your other rabbits are vaccinated, she could safely live with them. You still need to keep her away from shows and other unvaccinated rabbits.

Could she be used as a breeder? Or could her offspring be considered carriers?
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ZRabbits
Love My Lions!
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Lots of questions to be answered regarding this vaccine. My husband says lets wait to see what happens to the second generation of rabbits with this vaccine. Heck it was a big thing to get your child the chicken pox vaccine. Checked it out, reluctantly agreed and my Son never got chicken pox, but after that show was given, my husband came down with a very bad case of the shingles. Scared me because it looked like he had a stroke. So bad he almost lost the eye sight in his right eye.

This is all new. Need to see results first. But one good thing, doesn't take rabbits long to show a second generation.

I'm hoping for the best. Think this vaccine is geared more towards pet rabbits. Lots of pet rabbits with "P", get treated, symptoms go away, come back again, back to the vet. Very costly and emotional for people who really just started to understand what a rabbit really is. And how to enjoy it.

And regarding hard times finding older bunnies homes, I think the Pet community would get on the band wagon and really educate the "positive" side of an older rabbit? Some antsy rabbits do settle down once they hit that year mark. Become such a pleasure to have around. Just my opinion.
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NeuBunny
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BunnyRabbitPassion
Jun 30 2013, 01:27 PM
I'm wondering, since this vaccine causes your rabbit to become a carrier of pasteurella, are you then put in a place where you have to vaccinate all your rabbits?
The vaccine does not 'cause' your rabbits to be carriers. The organisms used to make the vaccine are dead and so cannot directly cause the disease (unless somebody in the production stream messes up bigtime - has happened with human vaccines, though rarely).

The question is what exactly happens to a vaccinated rabbit that is exposed to the disease. Ideally, the vaccine has 'taught' the rabbit's own immune system to recognize the disease and the rabbit's own immune system fights off the disease before you ever see any symptoms. The big question is whether that rabbit (which shows no symptoms so you may not know it has been exposed) could become a carrier. The history of human vaccines of this type says that it is extremely rare for a vaccinated individual to become a carrier. However, in general, it is also fairly rare for individuals who 'recover completely' to become carriers of a disease. In the case of pasteurella, it is generally believed that the opposite may be true -- rabbits who have had pasteurella and apparently recovered completely usually fail tests for the presence of the disease and frequently relapse when under stress. This leads us to assume that many, if not most, rabbits exposed to Pasteurella can become carriers.
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NeuBunny
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BunnyRabbitPassion
Jun 30 2013, 01:27 PM
That would mean, vaccinating either a very young rabbit, or keeping the rabbits tell they are older and it's harder to find them homes.
I believe the manufacturer is recommending that rabbits ideally be vaccinated at just 5 weeks old. No one should be selling/rehoming rabbits younger than that anyway.
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NeuBunny
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fuzzypatch
Jun 30 2013, 05:16 PM
Could she be used as a breeder? Or could her offspring be considered carriers?
Oh, now there is a kettle. Lots of issues to consider.

1) The only real way to determine whether any rabbit is a carrier is to have a vet swab and test for the disease. No other way to know whether your rabbit really completely fought off the the disease or whether it is just dormant in her system.

2) Stress can reactivate dormant Pasteurella. That would include the stress of breeding, pregnancy, birth and nursing.

3) Most diseases that have a tendency to go dormant can be transmitted only during an outbreak (reactivation of the disease). BUT, virtually all the ones I am most familiar with are retroviruses -- very different from Pastuerella which is bacterial. I really don't know how a bacteria is going dormant and reactivating later -- or more critically at what points it is contagious. So it is really hard to say whether the kits are being exposed to the disease if mom is a carrier.

IF this doe is an extremely valuable animal to your program that you want to breed, I would get her tested. If she tests negative, I'd go ahead and breed her. If she tests positive, recognize that breeding is a much higher risk. At a minimum I would want to quarantine her all through the breeding process (including quarrantine the buck she was bred to and the kits for a full month after weaning) and plan to test the kits.
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NeuBunny
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ZRabbits
Jun 30 2013, 06:30 PM
Lots of questions to be answered regarding this vaccine. My husband says lets wait to see what happens to the second generation of rabbits with this vaccine. Heck it was a big thing to get your child the chicken pox vaccine. Checked it out, reluctantly agreed and my Son never got chicken pox, but after that show was given, my husband came down with a very bad case of the shingles. Scared me because it looked like he had a stroke. So bad he almost lost the eye sight in his right eye.

This is all new. Need to see results first. But one good thing, doesn't take rabbits long to show a second generation.

I'm hoping for the best. Think this vaccine is geared more towards pet rabbits. Lots of pet rabbits with "P", get treated, symptoms go away, come back again, back to the vet. Very costly and emotional for people who really just started to understand what a rabbit really is. And how to enjoy it.

And regarding hard times finding older bunnies homes, I think the Pet community would get on the band wagon and really educate the "positive" side of an older rabbit? Some antsy rabbits do settle down once they hit that year mark. Become such a pleasure to have around. Just my opinion.
When I was a kid (oh, that makes me sound old...) parents still deliberately exposed children to chicken pox because the disease was much less serious in children than in adults.

I waited several years beyond the 'recommended' schedule to get my kids vaccinated against it. Early fear was that vaccinating in childhood increased the risk (if you didn't keep up booster shots forever) of getting the disease as an adult. And I know people who got it as adults and it was very bad. Risk of shingles and secondary infections (scratching the pox or shingles leads to open wounds that get infected very easily - and antibiotic-resistant staph infections are turning deadly) is what swung me the other way. Its one thing if you get the disease once and then it is over forever -- being at risk of getting shingles again and again is quite another.

Like you, I will be waiting a while to see results from the 'early adopters'. I too think that this vaccine is targeted towards the pet owner. If I had just a pair of non-breeding show pets I would probably be getting them vaccinated. But given the state of AR movement, worry that we will soon find ourselves in a position where not vaccinating is considered neglect.
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fuzzypatch
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So, just to clarify, if they get the vaccine, they are now carriers for it? Even if they weren't before?

How is not vaccinating neglect? I just don't understand the mindset of AR people.
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