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| Cull/Sell/Pet | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 27 2013, 06:52 AM (402 Views) | |
| ZRabbits | Jun 27 2013, 06:52 AM Post #1 |
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Love My Lions!
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As I've read every thing the NALRC has published regarding breeding basics, my view on my breeding program is this. Cull definitely means terminated. I see the reason for this as not just getting a good line going, but also putting out "bad" pet stock. The practice of culling, meaning just giving away, has in my eyes made problems for certain breeds. Just look at the Netherland Dwarf. Has a bad reputation of being skittish or nasty at times. I have a rescued Netherland Dwarf that is an angel. I just love his look and his personality. This "bad" practice could also hurt the Lionhead, in my opinion. Lots of complaints now from pet people about skittish lionheads and having a hard time with grooming. I won't be part of this by putting out "bad" stock. I have a plan forming regarding culling. Reptiles need nourishment too. Sell, meaning sell good "show" stock. Hopefully I can help those get started in breeding show quality Lionheads once I have my ducks in a row. Lots to learn about producing good "show" stock. Pet, meaning sell good "pet" stock. I plan on starting my "Couch Potato" line. No does will be part of this program. Does, I feel, are here for producing kits. And have a very hard road when spaying. Bucks, who are neutered, and have an easier road on neutering I have found, can be an awesome pet. So laid back, friendly, a true "couch potato". No "Couch potato" will be sold until two months after neutering. I feel it's my responsibility to stop those "oopps" litters that pet people are experiencing. I've read many sad stories of people getting does and oopps they are pregnant. Or a intacted buck and oopps got the bonding bunny pregnant since the AR people feel a bunny gets lonely and needs a buddy. Just trying to be a responsible breeder. What are your views of the cull/sell/pet? |
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| NeuBunny | Jun 27 2013, 04:26 PM Post #2 |
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Genetics Geek!
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By definition, cull means 'remove from the breeding population'. In genetic terms, it doesn't really matter whether that is terminate, neuter or just never breed. The problem with the 'never breed' part is that you don't really have any guarantee that's what the buyer will actually do. I've notice many breeders are starting to neuter (or provide a discount back to buyer on proof of neutering) culls sold as pets. That's probably a good thing for the breed. But, I would agree that 'pet quality' should NOT simply mean an animal that isn't good enough to show or breed. It should mean an animal that has the personality to make a good pet. I do seriously wish all the breed standards would include personality traits beyond just 'not vicious'. Personality has a strong genetic component and should be a serious consideration in breeding decisions. I like your idea of a 'couch potato' line! ...assuming by 'line' you are meaning a 'sales line' not a breeding line. |
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| ZRabbits | Jun 28 2013, 04:45 AM Post #3 |
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Love My Lions!
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I am definitely thinking "sales" line regarding my "Couch potatoes". I too feel like you, that personality is definitely an important key to a good "show" rabbit as well as "pet" rabbit. My goal for my show rabbits are to have rabbits, not just with correct standards, not just healthy, but also with very good "table manners". Something that seems to be lacking from the well written articles from ARBA judges in the "Mane" Musing (excellent publication sent out by the NALRC to it's members). And if I raise all the kits the same way, get a good valuations of the kits (whether show quality or pet), then I can be able to provide, not just myself, but others with a well rounded rabbits. To start their show hobby on the right foot and to provide a good experience to those who love to have a pet. I don't plan to have many litters. It's all about show for me. The pet part is secondary. I know not every kit that is born is show quality, so I'm hoping to provide a few good pets to let those experience this awesome rabbit. Heck, maybe it will even get someone excited about showing rabbits with a good experience with their pet. It did me. Anyway, thanks for asking about my "couch potato" line in my show line. Just trying to be a responsible breeder and allow those who receive my rabbits to enjoy the experience, whether show or pet. |
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| redbunny | Aug 6 2013, 04:18 AM Post #4 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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Hi Z, culling is about bring responsible I guess but different people have different ideas as to what that means. Removing stick from one's breeding programme! I know a breeder who puts mismarked Dutch kits in the freezer, another women lets youngsters go in the fields whilst others put them in the pot or sell them as pets. So far......I've kept all my ND youngsters and just added more hutches but it's getting expensive and room is limited now.....so I must tackle culling too but guess I'm a bit irresponsible! Your comment re temperament and ND. When I started out I was lucky to find anyone willing to sell show potential stock and was grateful for what I dd get. I have three of the most bad tempered (I'd say vicious) rabbits I've ever known. I couldn't ever let anyone have them because I couldn't trust them not to do some serious damage. Yet I keep them. I have bred from them and the youngsters have been very sweet. Are psycho rabbits born or created? |
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| ZRabbits | Aug 6 2013, 06:06 AM Post #5 |
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Love My Lions!
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My first litter of 4 are in the living room. lol Not mean at all, but because of my buck's "one time" illness, I just wanted to see if I created a mess by breeding him to my doe. They are all very healthy and yes, will be here the rest of their lives. My husband and I have become truly attached. But one thing I did learn, nothing passed from Neville, or I've built up immune systems and this good immune system was passed on to the kits. Regarding culling, it's something you really have to learn to do. I know in the future I will have to. Regarding the breeder who has mismarked Dutch that go to the freezer, very good culling method. Lion heads are a bit small for freezer (some people do though) so I need to really concentrate on pet sales for those rabbits that aren't "show quality". Plus if not human food, there are a lot of reptile breeders and owners in the Southern New Jersey area, so that is an option. That's why I stopped breeding. My focus is now on "show quality" and I want to get my ducks in a row so that I have a good plan regarding culling. I will be trying to get as close to the SOP as possible and that's also includes color even though it's only 10 points. I heard sad stories about mean ND's, but I have to say I have two that are just sweet hearts. Lionheads can be mean too. Any rabbit can But the small ones tend to be a bit more high strung. Regarding psycho rabbits born or created? I think it can go both ways. There are documents or experiences that say that a doe that is mean or high strung will pass it on to the kits. And there are experiences in a litter that 3/4 of them can be calm but you have one that is high strung. Example, out of the 4 does from my litter, Molly is the most high strung. She's not mean, just can be very excited and flightly. Would I breed Molly, no because of that high strung personality. But she would be a lovely pet for anyone. Especially someone who had rabbits before. You have experienced breeding does that are vicious but produced sweet kits. But I also have read the bad experiences where high strung does eat their young. Or totally ignore them. It happens and I would on principle never breed a high strung doe like that. Then there are ones that start out sweet, but then get into a living situation of possibly an irresponsible breeder and that turns them mean. And this would be all based on survival. It happens. Can't blame the rabbit, but unfortunately when purchase a rabbit like that, you get the affects of how it was treated beforehand. Some times you can break through that wall and other times you can't. That's life in animal world. So basically I'm saying, you learn the process of culling in time. It's an individual's choice but it is a necessary part of raising rabbits. |
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| NeuBunny | Aug 6 2013, 11:37 AM Post #6 |
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Genetics Geek!
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Can't help it - I'm a stickler for language on this one. Cull means to remove from the breeding population. IT is NOT a euphemism for kill. Whether the rabbit goes into the freezer, is fixed to be a pet or simply kept and not bred are all culling. Unless you are allowing all those 'youngsters' in your hutches an equal chance to breed, you are already culling. There is a genetic component to behavior - that's been proven with insect experiments. But the genetic controls of higher brain chemistry are likely very complicated. And influenced strongly by environment -- both physical (like chemicals in the food/water) and psychological (like abuse). I'm having a very nice memory of two of my college professors talking about insect control. Dr. Faber (the ecologist) talking about ways to modify the environment to discourage insect pests from invading your home/garden (like not providing some essential element for their lifecycle) and Dr. Kowles (the geneticist) saying to kill all the ones that are in the house/garden and you could select for bugs that stayed out. Both can work, a combination probably works better. |
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| redbunny | Aug 6 2013, 03:05 PM Post #7 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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It's potentially an emotive subject and I'm a bit of an ostrich on this one really. I am pleased to read these comments as it helps the decision making...... |
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| ZRabbits | Aug 6 2013, 09:36 PM Post #8 |
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Love My Lions!
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I know a word can have many meanings, but this is what happens when two groups use the same word to mean something else. Show breeders use the meaning for "cull" as "remove from their breeding program by selling to another breeder or pet". Meat breeders use the meaning for "cull" as "remove from their breeding program by dispatching to FC". Unfortunately for this, you will always have to explain the meaning we use for the word "cull". Because of the meaning MOST layman associate "cull" because of the message out there and the meaning the meat breeders use, it means to "kill". I get there are many meanings and am using those to figure out the best way to run my rabbitry. And maintaining my rabbit inventory is the most important. And "culling" to my living room has hit it's limit. lol |
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| redbunny | Aug 7 2013, 04:25 AM Post #9 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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Totally agree Zrabbits. I was brought up on a farm and cull meant one thing.....now I'm learning new things and ways of the world. I'm open minded. Now I use the word cull to mean removal from the breeding pool....though I still think back but time will deal with that. |
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| ZRabbits | Aug 7 2013, 06:00 AM Post #10 |
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Love My Lions!
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My uncle raised Angus and I knew what "cull" meant back then. It's just a way of life on a farm. It's an every day thing. Nothing new or surprising. Actually I have lots of respect for a farmer because they look at an animal so much differently then the average person. They have compassion for their animals, but at the end of the day, its always about the full picture. Definitely best to have an open mind on many ways "cull" means. I hope to find the best inventory management I can so that I can enjoy this hobby. |
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