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| Coccidia | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 20 2013, 04:38 PM (367 Views) | |
| sidd-says-gimme | Aug 20 2013, 04:38 PM Post #1 |
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sidd says stay gold
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I have a jr doe that I am having problems with: doesn't eat much, a tad skinny, lots of cecotropes, a bit of a poopy butt. Does this sound like coccidia? If so, how do I treat it? Is it safe to treat her (she is 4 months old) if I'm not sure if this is the problem? I don't want to lose this doe... she is very promising and such a sweetheart. |
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| ZRabbits | Aug 21 2013, 02:44 AM Post #2 |
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Love My Lions!
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Unfortunately sounds like it is. But not a Vet. http://www.netvet.co.uk/rabbits/coccidiosis.htm I'd get her looked at right away. Plus if it is, it's very contagious so I'd put her in quarantine. Fingers crossed for your promising doe. |
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| NeuBunny | Aug 21 2013, 12:11 PM Post #3 |
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Genetics Geek!
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maybe, depends on what you mean by 'skinny'. Coccidia often results in loss of weight over the spine while the tummy actually seems somewhat distended. I don't find that they lose appetite - more like they eat and eat and still lose weight. I don't usually get diarrhea with early coccidia symptoms -- to me that sounds more like advanced coccidia or bacterial/mucoid enteritis - which would require different treatment. if caught early, coccidia is easy to treat with sulmet ... I buy 12.5% Sulmet solution and then dilute 1 capful (1 tsp) to 1 gallon of water. Replace their drinking water with this for 10 days. 10 days off and another 10 days on (to catch anything that was resistant spores during the first treatment). This is one I always treat the whole herd when one shows symptoms - because it is quite contagious and because early treatment is more effective. |
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| NeuBunny | Aug 21 2013, 12:13 PM Post #4 |
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Genetics Geek!
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TLLs website has a piece on mucoid enteritis - which would be the most dangerous thing to have similar symptoms to what you describe... http://www.threelittleladiesrabbitry.com/mucoidenteritis.php |
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| sidd-says-gimme | Aug 21 2013, 02:16 PM Post #5 |
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sidd says stay gold
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I don't believe it was diarrhea, just found a way to get the yucky poo on her. She doesn't have a distended tummy... she's skinny there, too. She's not super skinny, just doesn't have much weight to her. If it's bacterial/mucoid enteritis, what should I do? She is eating, just not a lot. She has never had a great appetite. Should I treat her for coccidia, just in case? I would treat the whole herd. If so, is it safe to use with pregnant/nursing does and babies? |
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| redbunny | Aug 22 2013, 10:03 AM Post #6 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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Maybe she's just got an upset tummy which will pass? I worked with coccidiosis years back and it's everywhere at low levels plus many different types. It likes moist cages.....often people who let their animals live on deep litter get this. Adults appear immune but they need to develop this and that's where the issue is with young or under the weather animals. Is there any blood intone faeces? Scrub down everything....everywhere.....But you'll never get rid of it all. Some commercial pellets have coccidiostats in them which kills the thing. You can see it with a microscope at x100! |
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| NeuBunny | Aug 22 2013, 11:47 AM Post #7 |
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Genetics Geek!
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coccidia seems to hit somebunny in my barn every spring - totally at random (not the same bunny every year). I suspect because we don't do quite as good a job at keeping cages clean when everything is frozen. Sometimes it hits after spring cleaning, but I suspect they were actually exposed before. I've also read that it breaks dormancy at temperatures above 40F - which is pretty consistent with my first cases showing up slightly after spring thaw. I'd try the sulmet first - in addition to treating coccidia it is a low-level antibiotic and broad-spectrum anthelmic so it's more likely to help than hurt. I haven't used on pregnant does, but have on nursing ones - apparently it passes through the milk at a lower concentration (which works out close enough to proper dose for the kits). I'd also try a diet supplement - unlimited grass hay first (add fiber to harden the stool) and then a sprinkle of YQ+ (my 'go to' to put on weight, but lots of options to add vitamins and calories). IF the sulmet helps a bit, but then she loses the weight again, I would suspect something (bacteria/worms) that is somewhat resistant to the sulmet. I think at that point I would be reaching for the microscope to try and figure out what to do next. Quick question ... which I've assumed you already considered and discarded as I know this isn't your first litter. ...when you say she isn't eating much ... how much is that really? it's not unusually for our JW weanlings to eat less than a quarter-cup of pellets a day (even without hay or supplements) - and 4 month olds often go through a 'rangy' phase as they are growing so fast -- would hate to be treating her if that's all this is. |
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| NeuBunny | Aug 22 2013, 11:56 AM Post #8 |
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Genetics Geek!
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as to the mucoid enteritis - I haven't (knock on wood) had to deal with that. So the site I listed is the best advice I know. But your case doesn't sound nearly as extreme as described there. Best advice for a non-urgent problem is probably the general one I've seen for all 'poopy butt' issues ... increase the grass hay for a while. Nothing quite like fiber for getting a digestive system back in balance. Usually accompanied by instruction to cut back on pellets, but not sure I would want to do that as she is already too thin. |
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| sidd-says-gimme | Aug 23 2013, 08:45 AM Post #9 |
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sidd says stay gold
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She may have an upset tummy. I'm not sure. It had been like this for a while though... it's just a bunch of cecotropes the last couple days. She has normal poos too, just not a lot of them. Right now she is in a wire bottom cage, but she was in a solid bottom one when she was younger. I kept it clean but who knows? It is Summer and quite humid, so maybe. No blood in her poo, I'll try to get some pictures today in hopes of getting a better idea. Unfortunately I don't have a microscope.
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| sidd-says-gimme | Aug 23 2013, 08:55 AM Post #10 |
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sidd says stay gold
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I'll check all of the feed stores for sulmet and if I'm able to find it (hopefully) I will treat everyone. Would it be the same treatment if I'm not sure if she has it? My pregnant does are due in 2 days so it should be fine there. Hopefully it's okay to use on does with very young kits. This is what she is on right now - about 1/4 cup of pellets a day (I have a 16% protein extruded feed that I use for Sidd, that is what she's eating right now), probably a bit less than 1/4 cup of oats a day, and couple of leaves of plantain (I was told it helps with poopy butt). I have been trying to get hay but it is really hard to find good stuff. The only hay I can get in a store is the kind in the bag which mine don't like. Maybe she just requires more fiber than the others, but I don't know. When I had her on regular pellets and nothing else, she was eating around 1/4 cup of pellets a day, sometimes quite a bit less. I was thinking it was fine at first, but since she is starting to show that she doesn't have a lot of weight on her and the large amount of cecotropes, I wasn't sure what to think. Poor bugger. |
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| NeuBunny | Aug 24 2013, 11:06 AM Post #11 |
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Genetics Geek!
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I treat my whole herd when one shows symptoms -- all the same treatment. So I'm sure it is OK even if you aren't sure the problem is coccidia. I can count maybe twice in the 4 years we've had rabbits that I've seen cecotropes in the cages -- usually rabbits eat them immediately. So that you are noticing them really does seem to indicate something off. 2 possibilities come to mind ... one is that she really isn't producing more but just isn't eating them -- perhaps doesn't need to eat them because her food is already pretty high protein (though 16% doesn't sound terribly high to me) and she's getting enough of the B-vitamins (I think that's the main nutrients rabbits NEED to get from cecotropes) - but that wouldn't explain the weight issue. The other is that her body isn't absorbing protein efficiently -- resulting in more 'passing through' as cecotropes. I know what you mean about the hay -- mine don't like the bagged pet store stuff either (not to mention the price). Fingers crossed you can find a good supply. Any local goat farms? Goats prefer the same grass hay as bunnies. A goat farm might know where you could find a local source of hay. Edited by NeuBunny, Aug 24 2013, 11:06 AM.
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| sidd-says-gimme | Aug 26 2013, 06:25 AM Post #12 |
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sidd says stay gold
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All right, sounds good. I don't think it'll hurt. Wow, really? Maybe there is a problem with mine even if it's not coccidia... with a couple of my does, I see cecotropes in the pan daily (or almost). :/ The feed I give to all of the rabbits (except Sidd and now Suzume, who get the 16% extruded pellets) is 17% protein. Is that too high? I used to have them on 15% and I can't remember what was happening with cecotropes. They didn't keep good enough condition on that so I changed it. I don't think that I can buy any 16% protein feed in the 25 kg bags but I can look. I was able to get a bale of hay (thank goodness... and my good bunny friend, heh). I have her on that now. Her appetite has increased. She is eating 1/2 cup of the extruded pellets daily, about 1/3 cup of oats, and two small handfuls of grass hay. She still has cecotropes in the pan but I think it's a bit less. Thankfully her poos are bigger, healthier looking and more frequent. At least something is improving. I believe she has gained some weight, too. ![]() Thank you so much everyone... I will let you know what happens. |
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| athomepets | Aug 26 2013, 08:33 AM Post #13 |
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This bunny isn't leaving anytime soon
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may I ask why you would want to add a rabbit to your herd that has health issues? Isn't that just adding a potential genetic issue to your herd? If all your other animals are strong and healthy, and this one is struggling, is it worth it to your genetic health of your herd to keep it? one of the reasons it will be particularly sweet is due to it's lack of good health. |
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