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| ZRabbit "Show Quality" Lionhead Foundation | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 28 2013, 09:26 AM (588 Views) | |
| ZRabbits | Sep 28 2013, 09:26 AM Post #1 |
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Love My Lions!
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Have finally settled with the Color I will pursue with my Lionhead program. Hubby is downstairs cleaning, and I'm making a cake. Made a promise. He has a sweet tooth that flairs up once in a while. Don't mind . He doesn't ask for much. I will be starting with a Foundation Buck and 2 Adult Does. Definitely looking for "proven" in both the buck and does. Buck: Chocolate Tort. Doe 1: Black - Dilute, Chocolate and Tort Carrier Doe 2: Lilac - Chocolate Carrier Since Tort and Black are really what's being presented at the shows and helping the Lionhead be recognized as a breed, I believe I could find really good foundation stock at the shows talking to breeders there. Lilac, I'm not sure about but will see in October what's being presented. But as long as I have a doe that carries dilute and chocolate, I can still hope to see Lilac Torts. I'll be able to present my rabbits on the show table with the colors I'm FINALLY settling on. Going Tort (Chocolate and hopefully Lilac) Any suggestions or input is much appreciated. |
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| ZRabbits | Sep 28 2013, 09:34 AM Post #2 |
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Love My Lions!
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See, after re-reading (thanks Neubunny for your questions on the other thread) I'm already messing up my Chocolate Tort. I would need to separate my Chocolate Tort and my Lilac Tort program. Dilute varieties (Blue/Lilac) wash out the brilliance of the Chocolate Tort Coloring. So I would stick with Chocolate Tort and Black with Chocolate Carrier. And then look into Two parents that have the Dilute, Chocolate, Tort |
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| sidd-says-gimme | Sep 28 2013, 09:40 AM Post #3 |
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sidd says stay gold
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Suggestions: TYPE! Don't be too strict on color as long as it's proper, can go with your other rabbits and can make showable babies. I see lots of different colors that aren't being presented in nice-looking LH though. If you see something with good type that may be able to work, don't pass just because it's not the exact color you're looking for. Check for stray white hairs, incorrect nail color/white nails, watch for split Ps and teeth of course. I can't stress this enough: go for rabbits that have a history of good mothers. Yes, even the buck. Ask what happened with the first litter of the rabbit's dam. It is no fun whatsoever to start with nice animals then have bad kindling/mothering problems lurking. I struggled with this at first and there's not much more discouraging to have litters of DOAs time after time. Also, if you see an animal that fits the bill but isn't proven, you may want to think about it. I very rarely have a first time doe bomb it in any way. Just check the kindling/mothering history. Just because a doe was a good mom before doesn't mean she will always be good. After my DOA every time mishap I decided to get a "very proven" doe... meaning that she has had plenty of litters, raised them perfectly, fosters easily, ect ect. Well, she got here and was the worst mom ever. Just a few thoughts. |
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| ZRabbits | Sep 28 2013, 10:18 AM Post #4 |
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Love My Lions!
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Thanks Sidd, APPRECIATE your few thoughts. Understand TYPE is the number one priority over color. Especially getting the exact color. Had no clue about looking into the "bucks" background regarding good mothering skills. Will definitely look into the kinding/mothering history with the does. Lionheads do have "good" mothering skills. My "first timer" proved that. If you think of any more thoughts, please let me know. Thanks again! |
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| NeuBunny | Sep 28 2013, 01:15 PM Post #5 |
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Genetics Geek!
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I will add ... the 'right' lilac won't wash out your chocolate torts. My lilac tort buck has color so intense a lot of folks question whether he is blue (but he threw chocolate kits so I think his pedigree is right). His chocolate tort daughters are really nice. Or look for a lilac that doesn't have an all dilute background. That's no different than what you would be making yourself by breeding in the occassional non-dilute. And even with my rough start to breeding (does not taking) I wouldn't pass up a young doe (under a year) just because she isn't proven. Our most spectacular failure was the proven AFL doe I got for my younger daughter - never took with either of her two bucks (Rhi has pretty much zero interest in breeding anything anymore). |
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| NCK | Sep 28 2013, 04:34 PM Post #6 |
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Somebunny is a awfully chatty
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Yes, agreed that type comes first! I am also trying to breed for good first-time mothers, however since we are and always will be a small rabbitry, I can't afford to be super picky since it's pretty common for Hollands to loose their first litter. We started with three foundation rabbits as well - perhaps jumped into things a bit quickly, but all in all I am very pleased with how things have worked out. First bought a 9 week old little doe from a wonderful breeder... she was very promising. Now a senior, she definitely doesn't have the greatest type herself but I do LOVE some of her qualities and don't regret buying her at all. After two false pregnancies, she is finally due next Friday. She can be a bit of a brat, but is my "baby" and will likely have a home here forever ![]() Next we bought a proven duo from a breeder who was selling out... both directly from one of the top breeders in the country. The buck is very nice and has shown and produced well for us so far. The doe was a proven, older brood doe who's offspring we really liked. In fact, we had a hard time deciding between the buck we ended up getting and a buck out of her. Unfortunately, she died right after kindling and left us with two orphans (peanuts, thankfully). So I started looking for another proven doe - she must be brood, senior, and proven. 2 Weeks later, I came home with a totally unproven just-turned senior show doe from a very reputable breeder in our area. My, has she proven herself! Took BOB at her first and only (so far) show. Conceived the first time, gave birth with no trouble whatsoever, and was a wonderful mother to two kits. One is turning out to be really nice. She is by far the nicest rabbit in our rabbitry and was actually the least expensive. All that to say, sometimes the unproven ones turn out to be the best. But, I would definitely go for at least one proven rabbit. Also purchase the best herd buck you can afford, since he will be the backbone of your rabbits. Good luck finding your foundation stock! |
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| ZRabbits | Sep 28 2013, 09:06 PM Post #7 |
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Love My Lions!
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Thank you NCK. Truly appreciate you taking the time to write down your experience in obtaining your foundation stock for your breed. And truly will listen to your advise by getting the best herd buck I can afford, because I too believe the herd buck is the key. As I'm also keeping my rabbitry small, your suggestion of one proven and one non prove is an excellent idea. I have to agree, not to pass up an unproven because I have a perfect example of a first time Mom snoozing in my living room. Thanks so much for your suggestions and your good luck wishes. Look forward to the search. |
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| ZRabbits | Sep 29 2013, 05:50 AM Post #8 |
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Love My Lions!
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So after having a good night sleep, I have figured out my plans (short and long term). That's why all the research on what black and blue could do to my Chocolates and Lilacs. I really like both so decided to do what Neubunny did with the short and long term plans. I want to start with Chocolate. Self and Tort. As always Wool and Type are the main reason to buy my Buck or Does to start with. But my look for the buck and two does (colors) have changed. Herd Buck: Chocolate Tort: aa bb CC DD ee. Doe #1: Chocolate: aa bb CC DD EE Doe #2 Chocolate Tort: aa bb CC DD ee Possible bringing in Black with dilute and chocolate carrier to brighten up my colors. Will try to get as close to these genotypes as possible. Also will find out if there is any hidden shading in this group as well. If so, it's a no go. Have shaded here already, along with otter and it truly messes me up. I know there are breeders out there that have no qualms, and have the experience to work with Shaded and Torts. I am a newbie and see that you really need the knowledge of genetics to do this. So sticking to the basics that other experienced breeders have been successful with. Eventually I want to expand to, and will be completely separate from my Chocolate line Herd buck Lilac Tort: aa bb CC dd ee Doe #1: Lilac: aa bb CC dd EE Doe #2 Lilac Tort: aa bb CC dd ee Eventually bringing in Blue Self to bring back the "pinkish" hue of my Lilacs. I think that will be the best plans for me. I can start with Chocolate Torts and Chocolates. Torts hopefully will be recognized, along with the breed. I can start putting rabbits on the table. Chocolates are the 2nd COD so will be presented in 2014, if all goes well in October. Lilac Self is also being considered later on down the line. But Lilac Tort would already be a COD as it's considered under the Tort. Think I have a good plan to work on. Now it will be interesting to see what really develops. Hopefully I can get as close to possible to my plan, but know it's not an "exact" science. Edited by ZRabbits, Sep 29 2013, 05:50 AM.
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Don't be too strict on color as long as it's proper, can go with your other rabbits and can make showable babies. I see lots of different colors that aren't being presented in nice-looking LH though. If you see something with good type that may be able to work, don't pass just because it's not the exact color you're looking for. Check for stray white hairs, incorrect nail color/white nails, watch for split Ps and teeth of course. 
2:10 PM Jul 11