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| Help Understanding Wool and Fur | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 6 2013, 06:55 AM (411 Views) | |
| ZRabbits | Oct 6 2013, 06:55 AM Post #1 |
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Love My Lions!
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As I am going to breed a rabbit that has both wool and fur, would like some help understanding the terms in my head. ARBA Points for Mane: 25 points What is the meaning of dense. Lionheads must hav a full circle around the head extending to a "V" at the back of the neck. I know to look for that "V" when they were newborns, but found once adults, my REW's have a better circle than my Chocolates. Both Chocolates were a bit "thin" at the back of the neck. I feel "fullness" at the "V" of my REW's. Dense wool must extend from cheek to whisker bed, which all the girls do have. Wool must be wavy, showing crimping of the underwool. What is crimping? And, might be silly question, but thankfully don't feel any question is silly, what is undercoat? I think I remember waves in Neville's when he we younger. Luna's was much tighter, making me always think of cotton candy. Soft, but not as soft as Neville's. Wool cap? from top of head? I know Neville has too much wool cap, that's why we call him the "Beatle" Bunny. The girls didn't get as much, as Luna has very little wool cap, but Molly leans toward Neville, as her wool cap? comes down past her eyes. Poor girl, foolish me thought she was charging because of a bit of aggression. But it's a bit hard to see for her. I've learned my lesson and approach her differently, which now she's a doll. Any help would truly be appreciative. And if I'm not making sense in my questions, PLEASE ask for a clarification. Need to know the terms and what they mean so that I will able understand and help to be able to make good decisions. Thanks! |
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| ZRabbits | Oct 6 2013, 07:22 AM Post #2 |
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Love My Lions!
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Wanted to add that Wool is 10 points. I'm not sure of the change of the flank wool, but that was never considered before, but know it was the subject of many conversations. Coat is 10 Points. Dense again but what do does it mean by "prime". The girls have a nice "glossy" and "lively" fur on their saddle. Unfortunately too much wool on their faces though, but the fur that is there is nice and soft. Neville does have longer fur down his spine, but it didn't pass to the girls. I think though, if I really think back, it showed up when he hit about 8 months old. His adult coat. The girls don't show that, nor does Luna. I wonder if this has anything to do with much wool is in the genetics. Luna leans more towards the "Single" mane. Meaning she possibly (Mm), as all the girls do have (MM or Mm). She did not get back the Mane she had before she was bred. (Mm) usually tend to do that. Neville leaned heavily towards (MM). As I'm not going to breed the girls, so I won't know if they will get their manes back after kindling and weaning. If anyone of the kits, I think maybe my Chocolate doe and one of my REW's (Fluer) would be the ones not to get their manes back. I think Molly, with all she has would be able to regain her mane. Anyway, just thinking out loud. Thanks! eta: Getting the Double Mane symbol right. Girls could be MM or Mm, but none are mm because mm is no mane at all. Edited by ZRabbits, Oct 6 2013, 07:37 AM.
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| ZRabbits | Oct 6 2013, 07:58 AM Post #3 |
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Love My Lions!
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I went back to my photos and time line and it looks like the long line of hair down Neville's spine appeared around 4 months when he was molting his baby fur. Neville's saddle was completely covered and didn't start to show until then. Here's Neville at 8 weeks old ![]() Here's some photos showing where he started to molt. ![]() ![]() Here's Neville at 8 months. ![]() ![]() |
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| ZRabbits | Oct 6 2013, 10:20 AM Post #4 |
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Love My Lions!
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Went back and looked at some photos of Luna. Here's Luna at 7 weeks ![]() We used to call the tuft of her wool cap a "tiara" because she was our first Doe. And she thought she ruled the house. And she does. ![]() Different type of wool cap. I would believe it to say she doesn't have lots of guard hair like Neville? You can see the Wool Cap has formed on Luna by 8 weeks. ![]() In this photo (hope you can see it) Luna has already gotten her saddle fur. Meaning it was there when she was 6 weeks old. Not covered with wool like Neville. ![]() Here's Luna at 3 months old. As you can see her wool really came in. If you look closely at the bridge of her nose, there is wool going across. I used to twirl it and she became a unicorn. I know, silly me. ![]() Here's a closer look at her face. She will eventually get wooly ears after kindling. Plus won't have as much guard hair and flank wool. ![]() Another photo showing her mane and a little skirt. Unfortunately all the girls have quite a bit of skirt. More dense like Luna's. ![]() This shows a better photo of Neville's emerging saddle. ![]() Here's Luna at 4 months old. ![]() |
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| NeuBunny | Oct 7 2013, 10:28 AM Post #5 |
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Genetics Geek!
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technically, dense is the number of fibers per inch. But practically, it is judged on feel -- which means coarser fiber (where each hair is thicker) is also going to feel more dense. There's a special note on that in the satin angora standard (clearly aimed at the case where one is up for best of breed and might be considered not as dense when the issue is really the finer diameter of satin hairs). crimp is an inherent 'wave' or curl to the fiber. You feel crimp as a 'springiness' in the fiber -- take a single hair and pull the ends -- you can feel the spring in wool that isn't there in the guard hairs. More crimp tends to make wool stand more upright, giving a fluffy appearance, less crimp gives more of a silky feel. Very important to spinners as hair without crimp is MUCH harder to spin (too slippery). I may have this completely wrong but ... My understanding is that on most 'normal furred' breeds, the undercoat is very soft downy hairs (high crimp and fine diameter) that only grow a few millimeters in length (next to the skin). In the 'wooled breeds' the undercoat fibers (all or some?) grow longer and are called wool. While we are on this discussion (wool terms)...I get very confused by the terms I see in the angora breeds... English angoras distinguish wool, underwool, and guard hairs. With the wool silky and the underwool crimped. French only distinguish guard hair and under wool. The guard hair should protrude and the underwool be crimped. Giants distinguish underwool (dominant and delicately waved), awn fluff (longer, stronger wave and with a guard hair tip), and awn hair (aka guard hair) which is strong, straight and protruding above the wool. Satins also seem to distinguish three types -- underwool, wool and guard hair, calling for crimp in the underwool, silky wool and fine guard hairs. So I'm wondering ... (1) are the three types on the giants (which make the most sense to me in description) really the same three in the other breeds? (2) And are French really lacking one type, or just a case where wool and underwool are fairly similar and so not distinguished in the description? |
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| ZRabbits | Oct 8 2013, 05:11 AM Post #6 |
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Love My Lions!
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Thanks so much Neubunny. Your explanations regarding your view on each term, helped me understand what I'm looking at, and feeling. "So I'm wondering ... (1) are the three types on the giants (which make the most sense to me in description) really the same three in the other breeds? (2) And are French really lacking one type, or just a case where wool and underwool are fairly similar and so not distinguished in the description? " I think you have something there. After reading your description of types of wools on giants, I think it is the same three in the other breeds. I would think French really does have all three types, but because of the similarity of the wool and underwool, its not considered in the description. It's the way the SOP was written? Because as Lionheads developed, Angora was used to help bring on the wool. Which then would pass on that trait of the three types of wool. But it varies in different types of Lionheads. Neville tends to lean towards the the "less crimp", as his wool feels silky. Plus I had to be vigilant as he was growing with mats occurring in his undercoat. Luna tends to lean toward "more crimp" as her wool is fluffy in appearance and she never had any problems with mats in her undercoat. Thanks again. Really helped "switch on my lightbulb" for me regarding understanding wool and fur. |
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