Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Add Reply
Spain in Crisis
Topic Started: May 14 2012, 08:22 AM (242 Views)
rumbaba
Member Avatar

On Start the Week Andrew Marr discusses Spain's economic crisis, and the legacy of Franco. In the last decade Spain has begun to unearth some of the mass graves of the hundreds of thousands of people who were killed in the 1930s by both sides in the civil war. Paul Preston discusses what he calls the Spanish Holocaust and its impact on Spain today. Maria Delgado argues that the significance of Franco's reign transcends politics, and can be felt strongly in Spain's cultural landscape. The MEP Daniel Hannan sees the country's strong support for Europe as the legacy of repression following the civil war, but believes that its present financial crisis would be eased by rejecting the euro. While the economist Iain Begg discusses Spain's problems within the wider Eurozone and the effect of political changes in France and Greece.
Producer: Katy Hickman


An interesting comment this morning that 'Homage to Catalonia' is about as historically useful about the Spanish Civil War as Spike Milligan's 'Hitler, my part in his downfall' is about WWII.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
caissier
Member Avatar
Administrator
I think it was Daniel Hannan who said that, rum? Anything he says is usually designed to do damage to something somewhere.

Spike Milligan's diaries, I think, do give a very good idea of the experience of being a soldier in a war. He's just trying to do down Orwell.

I heard some of it. It sounded, in line with the current BBC concern with no upsetting right-wingers, and trying to give fascism a fair hearing.

I sat opposite DH on a train once for an hour, listening to him on his phone, which was quite interesting. I should have strangled him when I had the chance.
Edited by caissier, May 14 2012, 12:38 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rumbaba
Member Avatar

Unfortunately, I didn't hear the whole thing Caissier but that comment grabbed my attention: didn't catch who said it. They did go on to say that Orwell's was a good account of life in the trenches from a soldier's point of view but that the 'bigger picture' was missed. I'm not sure it was particularly 'pro-facist'.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
caissier
Member Avatar
Administrator
I'm possibly being paranoid but there seems to me to be appeasement of right-wingers going on. A few weeks ago Andrew Marr had a clutch of conservatives on, including an American Tea Party person, talking congenially with them, taking them seriously. Why not? Not sure but it sounded suspiciously liked contrived fawning. I'm certainly suspicious of Hannan's intentions.

We get hardly any tv (or radio) about the Spanish Civil War, compared to constant WWII stuff. I read Anthony Beevor's book about it a while ago, a fascinating story. The Anarchists were a real bunch of trouble-makers even if very brave at times. A sad story, mass killings immediately afterwards and repercussions going on into the 60s - persecutions, executions, assassinations.

Do we know much at all about these countries in so much trouble now? Spain, Italy, Greece ..... it suddenly feels as though we should.

Some financial pundit the other day was saying Greece, outside the EU, is just not viable - all it has is tourism and olive oil - and hasn't been for a hundred years. 'Shipping magnates' all used to be Greek though for some reason.

Do you have any views on that, rum, with your experience of eastern Europe?
Edited by caissier, May 14 2012, 12:38 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rumbaba
Member Avatar

I am sadly ignorant Caissier. Despite having an economics degree and having worked in banking most of my life, it has always been a mystery to me how the world's financial systems held together in the first place: it is no surpise to me when it fails. On the euro, none of the countries, including Germany, met the conditions for entry, so it was all sleight of hand from the begining. I have asked taxi drivers and others in Eastern Europe how the financial collapse has affected them and they have generally responded, 'we've been living with austerity for years, it's nothing new for us'. The financial markets have already discounted Greece: the fear is that Spain will go and then, a big problem for me personally, Italy.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
waiting4atickle
Member Avatar

caissier
May 14 2012, 12:36 PM
Some financial pundit the other day was saying Greece, outside the EU, is just not viable - all it has is tourism and olive oil

But inside the EU all it has is tourism and olive oil - and at less affordable prices.

(Thinking back to those taverna menus, perhaps I should have said "less logical prices".)


Edited by waiting4atickle, May 14 2012, 11:04 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
caissier
Member Avatar
Administrator
waiting4atickle
May 14 2012, 11:02 PM
caissier
May 14 2012, 12:36 PM
Some financial pundit the other day was saying Greece, outside the EU, is just not viable - all it has is tourism and olive oil

But inside the EU all it has is tourism and olive oil - and at less affordable prices.

(Thinking back to those taverna menus, perhaps I should have said "less logical prices".)


..... plus bailouts ??
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
waiting4atickle
Member Avatar


Yes, but that's not really a solution in the long term, is it? There will come a time when even Germany can't afford to bail out the rest of Europe, and surely the Volk will balk at doing so before then.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
caissier
Member Avatar
Administrator
It's not ....They were talking about it all last night on the World Service with academic detachment. Greek people are leaving because, it was being said, getting enough to eat is difficult. Desperate times and the message from leaders is - we can't do anything about it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rumbaba
Member Avatar

Some Greek people are putting their children into orphanages so they can be fed and clothed. It's heart breaking.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rumbaba
Member Avatar

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/greeks-apologise-with-huge-horse-2012051527146
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums. Reliable service with over 8 years of experience.
« Previous Topic · The Choice Is Yours · Next Topic »
Add Reply