| R3; The Best Is Noise | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 7 2013, 03:34 PM (2,403 Views) | |
| May-Cee | Feb 7 2013, 03:34 PM Post #1 |
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This promises to be a great year. Year-long seasons of the three anniversary boys - Verdi and Wagner (1813) and Britten (1913). And the year-long "The Rest Is Noise" season. My highlights so far - Verdi's "Il Trovatore" Britten's "Spring Symphony" Webern / Schoenberg / Mahler The last is my fave so far. Indeed, because of my tastes - the above three plus Berg, Bartok, Stravinsky and Stockhausen - I'm wetting my knickers at the thought of what's to come on "The Rest Is Noise" season. The Alex Ross book changed my life (in a practical sense, in a way that can be measured) more than any book I've ever read. There's hardly a day when I don't take it off my shelf to look something up. |
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| caissier | Feb 7 2013, 03:55 PM Post #2 |
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Administrator
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Hiya May-Cee .... nice to see your post ...... I've been moseying around R3 lately, for drama, so yours is another recommendation, esp. for the Britten. |
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| Mobson | Feb 7 2013, 04:01 PM Post #3 |
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Hi May-Cee ...'Tenor Lady' in the post! ...I'll take the Verdi and Mahler you can keep the rest! - until I know what the "Rest" comprises that is
Edited by Mobson, Feb 7 2013, 04:01 PM.
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| May-Cee | Feb 7 2013, 04:02 PM Post #4 |
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I've a wee hunch you're not a Modernist, Mobs... |
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| dai Cottomy | Feb 7 2013, 04:39 PM Post #5 |
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I'm giving a "compare and contrast" talk at my local music group. The subjects are: Bartok and Kodaly. I'm scouting around the HMV sales at the moment to pick up bargains. |
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| May-Cee | Feb 28 2013, 01:28 PM Post #6 |
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Talking of Verdi, Mobs... He premiered "Il Trovatore" and "La Traviata" in the same year! (1853) (And I thought Bowie releasing "Low" and "Heroes" in '77 was impressive...) To reassure the non-Modernists, maybe I should explain the title of the brilliant Ross book; which ain't as provocative as it sounds. He takes his epigraph from a line by Hamlet: "... the rest is silence." How you getting on with Bartok and Kodaly, dai? I've a wee hunch you might be more than familiar with "The Rest Is Noise"... (My fave anecdote is that, when young and hungry, Philip Glass and Steve Reich formed a furniture removal company called Chelsea Light Moving; they then fell out, each accusing the other of nicking his ideas. The Glass piece, "Two Pages for Steve Reich", had its title shortened to "Two Pages". Miaoow!) The live New York Met opera this Sat is "Parsifal". I'll be loading up with the essentials (Silk Cut, Bacardi, Tayto) coz I'm in for the Long Haul. |
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| May-Cee | Mar 6 2013, 12:20 PM Post #7 |
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Well, I made it through "Parsifal"; tough going at times but very rewarding. My surprise treat last week was Gounod as COTW. The excerpts they played from his version of "Faust" blew my socks off; so I've ordered it from the library so I can hear it in full. I sold my soul to the Devil a long time ago; may as well have a good soundtrack for my decadence. |
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| dai Cottomy | Mar 7 2013, 01:26 PM Post #8 |
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It went very well, thanks for asking, May-Cee. I have to be careful not to offend the more conservative members of the group. An old lady passed away soon after my talk on Stravinsky. Edited by dai Cottomy, Mar 7 2013, 01:27 PM.
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| Mobson | Mar 8 2013, 11:31 AM Post #9 |
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Stravinsky can do that
Edited by Mobson, Mar 8 2013, 11:33 AM.
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| May-Cee | Mar 14 2013, 02:54 PM Post #10 |
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I'm reading the (controversial) new biog of Britten. I think Mobs would agree with the first part of his diary entry (Jan 1931) on hearing Stravinsky's "Rite" for the first time: "... bewildering and terrifying. I didn't really enjoy it, but I think it's incredibly marvellous and arresting." I think Mobs would enjoy Stravinsky at his more playful and accessible; such as the "Pulcinella" Suite that was part of the "Baroque Remixed" evening on Mon. (The whole concert was enjoyable; though some of the weird, abstract pieces - while fine in themselves - bore very little connection to the Baroque that I could detect.) This has been a good week for Stravinsky fans. Last night there was a superb production of "Oedipus Rex". (And an interesting intoductory essay about Freud and the Oedipus story.) By the way, dai (and of course you don't have to answer!) Is your background in music teaching and/or playing? Or are you a gifted enthusiast? I came shockingly late to classsical music so I'm making up for lost time. My first love was Mahler; and, through him, I became very keen on the Second Viennese School (especially the two great Berg operas). In recent years, I've been trying to broaden my horizons. |
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| dai Cottomy | Mar 14 2013, 06:25 PM Post #11 |
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Enthusiast, yes. Gifted? No. My first experience of the Rite of Spring was from seeing Disney's Fantasia at the age of about twelve. It really blew me away, and I saved up and bought it on two 12" LPs. I now have a boxed set of practically everything he wrote. (Stravinsky , that is) Edited by dai Cottomy, Mar 15 2013, 09:57 AM.
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| rumbaba | Mar 15 2013, 11:56 AM Post #12 |
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"The whole concert was enjoyable; though some of the weird, abstract pieces - while fine in themselves - bore very little connection to the Baroque that I could detect" What does 'abstract' mean in relation to music? In visual art, I take it to mean that it is not 'representational' i.e. it is not trying to look like anything in the 'real 'world'. I would have thought that it is 'non-abstract' music that would sound the strangest to our ears, based on sounds and noises in the world, rather than the rules of music; melody, harmony, rhythm. Edited by rumbaba, Mar 15 2013, 12:06 PM.
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| dai Cottomy | Mar 15 2013, 01:13 PM Post #13 |
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The piece of music which comes to mind with the word "abstract" is 4'33" by John Cage. 4′33″ (pronounced "Four minutes, thirty-three seconds is a three-movement composition by American experimental composer John Cage (1912–1992). It was composed in 1952 for any instrument (or combination of instruments), and the score instructs the performer not to play the instrument during the entire duration of the piece throughout the three movements (which, for the first performance, were divided into thirty seconds for the first, two minutes and twenty-three seconds for the second, and one minute and forty seconds for the third). The piece purports to consist of the sounds of the environment that the listeners hear while it is performed although it is commonly perceived as "four minutes thirty-three seconds of silence". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTEFKFiXSx4 |
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| rumbaba | Mar 15 2013, 02:07 PM Post #14 |
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There's nothing abstract about silence, Dai, at least in concept, although I imagine there was a fair amout of sniffing, throat-clearing, foot-shuffling and sighing going on during this piece. If I had been present, then 'you're taking the piss you pretentious b*****d' would have been clearly audible. I've got a number of studio cover-versions in my vinyl collection(my needle doesn't lift automatically)
Edited by rumbaba, Mar 15 2013, 02:08 PM.
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| dai Cottomy | Mar 15 2013, 03:38 PM Post #15 |
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OK, Rum - that was a bit of kidology. Perhaps May-Cee was referring to atonal music by composers such as Schoenberg, Alban Berg and Anton Webern from the early 1900s. Their equivalent in Jazz might be characterised by the free jazz pioneered by Ornette Coleman, Charles Mingus & Eric Dolphy and others in the 1960s.
Edited by dai Cottomy, Mar 15 2013, 03:41 PM.
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| rumbaba | Mar 15 2013, 03:51 PM Post #16 |
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You are probably right, Dai but why 'abstract'? I'm not trying to be clever or 'picky' about terminology, I am genuinely not sure what May-Cee means by it. I looked it up on Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_music but I don't think, from the context, this is what was meant. [] Absolute music (sometimes abstract music) is music that is not explicitly "about" anything; in contrast to program music, it is non-representational.[1] The idea of absolute music developed at the end of the 18th century in the writings of authors of early German Romanticism, such as Wilhelm Heinrich Wackenroder, Ludwig Tieck and E. T. A. Hoffmann but the term was not coined until 1846 where it was first used by Richard Wagner in a programme to Beethoven's Ninth Symphony.[1][2] A related idea from 19th century composers, but often contested, considers absolute music as a form of divinity itself which could be evoked by music. |
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| dai Cottomy | Mar 15 2013, 04:21 PM Post #17 |
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Yes - J.S.Bach's Preludes & Fugues are generally known as 'absolute', because they consist of pure musical form, without attempting to tell a story or describe a scene. The other end of the spectrum is 'programme music' (like Beethovens Pastoral Symphony) or any operatic music. By this definition, the Rite of Spring is programme Music, because it is a description of the sacrifice of a young girl during a primitive ritual. Stravinsky's score contains many features that were novel for its time, including experiments in tonality, metre, rhythm, stress and dissonance. The answer to what abstract music is could just be: 'music that people find hard to understand' Perhaps the word should be restricted to the visual arts. Edited by dai Cottomy, Mar 16 2013, 02:28 PM.
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| May-Cee | Mar 25 2013, 11:23 AM Post #18 |
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My (rather loose) use of the term is along the lines of: Music that is more about texture and ambience than it is about form or structure. dai mentioned Ornette Coleman. My two fave albums are early ones. "Free Jazz" is two quartets (the other lead by Eric Dolphy) improvising simultaneously for forty minutes. Each quartet was given a few "cues" to get to at certain points; otherwise it would have just descended into chaos. (To this day, a lot of folks - even jazz folks - think it IS just chaos!) Coleman's earlier "The Shape Of Jazz To Come" - though considered at the time, '59, as very radical - is a much more coherent, "linear" album; that, in retrospect, hadn't moved THAT far beyond 50's bebop. I think that, in the loose terms I've defined it, we can legitimately describe "Free Jazz" as being more "abstract" than "The Shape Of Jazz To Come". I can "hear" music and talk about it in thematic terms; but, not being a musician, I can't talk about it in purely musical language. So, unlike dai, I could never host a talk about Stravinsky or Bartok & Kodaly! My highlights last week were Mahler's Fourth and the unfinished Tenth. The latter was a special treat because in the great box-set of Bernstein's versions, he conducted only the first movement. He refused, on principle, to play the Tenth; he thought it was presumptuous to second-guess what Mahler would have tweaked and refined. (HEADMASTER: This evening The Springfield School Orchestra will be playing Schubert's Unfinished Symphony. HOMER: Good; this won't take long.) |
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| rumbaba | Mar 25 2013, 02:56 PM Post #19 |
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I like Eric Dolphy's 'Out to lunch', which I have, but it's pretty mainstream. |
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| May-Cee | Apr 12 2013, 01:10 PM Post #20 |
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"Out To Lunch" - along with "The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady" - is probably my fave non-Coltrane album. The original sleevenote ends: "Eric says about his immediate future: 'I'm on my way to Europe to live for a while'." Before the album was even released, Dolphy had died in Europe. He was that rare thing in jazz - a drugs-free teetotaller - but he went into a diabetic coma. The doctors - assuming he was a junkie - left him to sleep it off; and left him to die. On a lighter note... It's kinda odd that the wonderful Freddie Hubbard (who I remember Rum telling me that he saw live) plays on both Coleman's "Free Jazz" and Coltrane's "free jazz" statement, "Ascension". In his own stuff, he's a fairly conventional, blues-based trumpeter; with no free jazz or avant-garde leanings to speak of. And - to round things off ! - he does, of course, play on "Out To Lunch" as well. (Wagner from the New York Met for the next few Saturdays...) |
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| May-Cee | Apr 27 2013, 10:42 AM Post #21 |
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Well that's me all Wagnered out for a while. (Plenty to come during the Proms...) Though there's an interesting sounding two-parter about Wagner starting on Tues morning on R4. Nice treat last night: Copland, Barber, Adams. (And another great interval talk by Stephen Johnson) |
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| May-Cee | May 8 2013, 12:53 PM Post #22 |
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This week's COTW - Copland - has been my favourite for a while. It's the big hit tomorrow - "Appalachian Spring" - but the whole series has been a treat. A wee aside: The wonderful Nadia Boulanger crops up so often as teacher/mentor/friend of so many of the greats... I wonder if she has ever been COTW? Like most folks (I'm assuming) I only know her as a famous teacher rather than as a composer in her own right. (When Piazzolla wanted to move away from Tango into "mainstream" classical composition, she wisely convinced him that his beautiful Tangos WERE classical and classic.) |
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| May-Cee | Jun 2 2013, 10:09 PM Post #23 |
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Extraordinary week. Another "Rite" - the second this month! Though this one was one hundred years and a day after the (in)famous premiere. And my favourite (seldom heard on the wireless) opera - Berg's "Lulu". |
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| rumbaba | Jun 3 2013, 01:12 PM Post #24 |
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Is that the same 'Lulu' that Lou Reed did with Metallica? (dreadful stuff) BTW I just heard on the radio that Lou Reed isn't dying anymore. Dunno what was wrong with him but Laurie Anderson (Mrs Lou Reed) made a statement saying he'll never make a full recovery but he is back doing Tai Chi and will be working again soon. |
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| rumbaba | Jun 3 2013, 01:16 PM Post #25 |
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It seems he underwent a liver transplant (Lou Reed, that is) |
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| May-Cee | Jun 4 2013, 11:39 AM Post #26 |
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Haven't heard it but the Lou Reed album is based on the two Frank Wedekind plays that inspired the Berg opera. The Lulu story has been reworked many times (an Angela Carter stageplay, a Philip Hensher novel, etc) but most notable is probably GW Pabst's '29 silent classic, "Pandora's Box" - with the great Louise Brooks in a career-defining performance. Of her famous trademark, someone (I forget who) once said - "That's not a haircut; that's a helmet". I think I'll give the Reed version a miss, but wish him well; he's still one of the Good Guys. |
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| May-Cee | Jul 2 2013, 11:41 AM Post #27 |
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Last week's highlight - Britten's magnificent "War Requiem" A good COTW this week (listening as I type this): "Ravel and his World" The "Les Apaches" group. By the way, The Louise Brooks "helmet" remark: It cropped up in the title of a famous "New Yorker" profile by Kenneth Tynan; not sure if he coined the phrase. |
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