Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Add Reply
Pope Resigns
Topic Started: Feb 11 2013, 11:52 AM (1,815 Views)
rumbaba
Member Avatar

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-21411304

Looks like the financial scandal at the Vatican has claimed it's first victim. God knows what's coming, must be bad :(

I'm not buying the 'too old' line, he was too old when he started.
Edited by rumbaba, Feb 11 2013, 01:09 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

He was getting on a bit when he first took the job on at 78 years of age in 2005. Although what that job actually entails I really have no idea...a lot of evangelising in and outside of the Vatican of course; the latter he has now been advised against by his doctors. Unable to control or contain leaks emitting from his Office have probably added to his woes. The Catholic Church inner-sanctum, who seem unwilling to advocate birth control amongst the poorest communities of its following, are now forced to address homosexuality and pedophile issues; it surely needs to reform and get itself a younger free-thinking Pope... <angel>
Edited by Mobson, Feb 11 2013, 01:25 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lurkalot

i would have thought a spiritual leader's job was for life.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

It is the first time in 600 years that a Pope has resigned from office...and he goes quickly in two weeks no less.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rumbaba
Member Avatar

Mobson
Feb 11 2013, 01:13 PM
Unable to control or contain leaks
That's part of getting old, I'm afraid :)
Edited by rumbaba, Feb 11 2013, 01:28 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

rumbaba
Feb 11 2013, 01:27 PM
Mobson
Feb 11 2013, 01:13 PM
Unable to control or contain leaks
That's part of getting old, I'm afraid :)
;) l> Now if I were a Catholic....actually anyone know how many Catholics there in the UK...or the World?
Edited by Mobson, Feb 11 2013, 02:07 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
AmosBurke
Member Avatar

Mobson
Feb 11 2013, 01:13 PM
younger free-thinking Pope... <angel>
I believe Peter Turkson is the hot favourite to take over, a slip of a lad at 64.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Norm Deplume
Member Avatar

Unable to control or contain leaks emitting from his Office
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Did you not notice the typo Mobsy? you left an r and an i out of office
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
becky sharp
Member Avatar

This is what I will most remember about this Pope...

From the web, posted in 2006.


The Pope played a leading role in a systematic cover-up of child sex abuse by Roman Catholic priests, according to a shocking documentary to be screened by the BBC tonight.

In 2001, while he was a cardinal, he issued a secret Vatican edict to Catholic bishops all over the world, instructing them to put the Church's interests ahead of child safety.

The document recommended that rather than reporting sexual abuse to the relevant legal authorities, bishops should encourage the victim, witnesses and perpetrator not to talk about it. And, to keep victims quiet, it threatened that if they repeat the allegations they would be excommunicated.
The Panorama special, Sex Crimes And The Vatican, investigates the details of this little-known document for the first time.



http://www.standard.co.uk/news/pope-led-coverup-of-child-abuse-by-priests-7220621.html

Consequently I have never had any time for him.
Edited by becky sharp, Feb 11 2013, 04:28 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rumbaba
Member Avatar

It's shocking Becky.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

Norm Deplume
Feb 11 2013, 04:03 PM
Unable to control or contain leaks emitting from his Office
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you not notice the typo Mobsy? you left an r and an i out of office
<huh????>
Edited by Mobson, Feb 11 2013, 04:41 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hugh Jampton
Member Avatar

Once when we were walking near the Vatican, we saw a shoe repair shop with a sign over the door....

COBBLERS TO THE POPE
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
waiting4atickle
Member Avatar


One of my Facebook friends posted a link to this last night - surely not a coincidence.

Posted Image

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
caissier
Member Avatar
Administrator
It might be he has a nasty illness. They often try to tough out scandals.

There was a Channel 4 Dispatches, I think, about rabbis in north London advising young Jewish men not to go to the police about past sexual abuse committed by particular rabbis ...... who were dealt with within the 'community' by being warned to stop and/or being made to pay money - who too I'm not sure. There's been a big thing about similar situations in New York, with anybody who does tell the police being persecuted by fellow Jews.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hugh Jampton
Member Avatar

Here's a picture of the Pope [the previous one] blessing the HoI and me at Castel Gandalfo.
I have to admit that I'm not all that religious. But it was still a very moving experience.

The other picture is of two delightful Italian ladies who sat with us at the time.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
waiting4atickle
Member Avatar


Stout, I'm sure you'll confuse the good people here with your talk of "HoI".

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Caro

I'm quite sure he's resigning because of his health - Popes are well used to controversy and he would have expected that when he accepted Popeship. I don't really understand how people who are not absolutely fit can do this sort of leadership work. Peole should be prepared to step down when they can no longer do a job properly. (One of our top broadcasters stepped down from his job on health grounds recently - he was then given a quick knighthood and then died. Big funeral this week. Only 62.)

The first reaction of any organisation or individuals in the face of embarassingly bad behaviour is to cover it up and pretend it hasn't happened, or at least ensure it isn't known about outside the family, so the church's reaction to the child abuse scandal just seemed natural to me.

Interesting to see who they appoint now - the writer of some magazine about the Vatican suggested the man from Ghana would be a good choice (though I see he has made comments about Muslims that might not be acceptable), or an Italian, or someone from Canada. I think those were her three main probabilities.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
dai Cottomy
Member Avatar

post deleted
Edited by dai Cottomy, Feb 11 2013, 11:37 PM.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
becky sharp
Member Avatar

Caro
Feb 11 2013, 11:10 PM
The first reaction of any organisation or individuals in the face of embarassingly bad behaviour is to cover it up and pretend it hasn't happened, or at least ensure it isn't known about outside the family, so the church's reaction to the child abuse scandal just seemed natural to me.

The more I read your posts,Caro,the more I'm convinced you just like/try to provoke because I can't see how anybody can equate covering up embarassingly bad behaviour with covering up child sex abuse.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Caro

No, but I suppose I shouldn't comment on things like this. The worse the behaviour the more likely the cover-up surely. Especially if there is likely to be huge sums of money involved.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rumbaba
Member Avatar

The problem with the Catholic Church is that it isn't just any company or organisation, it is supposed, by its very definition, to have 'the moral high ground'. It claims an unparalled level of moral superiority, stretching to Papal infallibility, a direct line to God. In these circumstances, to find that the church behaved in a way that would be reprehensible for any organisation, putting its 'good name' before the welfare of children, threatening and intimidating victims, moving guilty priests around parishes where they continued to offend, is utterly shocking.

The Vatican's financial affairs has been a scandal waiting to happen for years (who remembers Roberto Calvi? - found hanging under Blackfriar's Bridge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Calvi ). Card services have been withdrawn from the Vatican because they do not have adequate anti money-laundering procedures in place: it's only a matter of time before we get more scandals.

Unfortunately, this Pope, and the one before, have stuffed the college of cardinals will backward -looking traditionalists, in their own image. We may get a black Pope, which will superficially look like a step forward but we won't get a Pope who will carry out the reforms that are desperately needed.
Edited by rumbaba, Feb 12 2013, 10:47 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

The Wrath of God? This on the day of the Pope's resignation...lightning struck St Peter's Basilica within hours of the announcement... :'(

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21421810

Posted Image

Posted Image
Attached to this post:
Attachments: _Lighting_strikes_St_Peter_s_dome_.jpeg (24.4 KB)
Attachments: Lightning_strikes_St_Peter_s_dome_.jpg (37.99 KB)
Edited by Mobson, Feb 12 2013, 11:28 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
caissier
Member Avatar
Administrator
The church inhabits old buildings going way back to before pre-democratic ideas and was once a counterpart to the secular state and, in its minds, probably still has the old assumptions of realpolitik, that a few individuals are expendable. It deals in what it presumably thinks of as timeless matters and so, I guess, finds it impossible to accept contemporary attitudes. Despite everything it thinks it knows better, and believes it has God backing it up.



In other words it's stuck in the past when powerless people didn't matter.
Edited by caissier, Feb 12 2013, 11:20 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rumbaba
Member Avatar

I think you are right Caiss, but it can no longer rule by fear as it did in the past. Even in Ireland, partly due to the many scandals there, like the recent stories about the enslavement of young girls to work in laundries run by nuns, people are no longer in awe of the local parish priest or the bishop.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
caissier
Member Avatar
Administrator
Yes, I knew about the Magdalene's but read recently that if any escaped they were hunted down by the Garda and just taken back. They were in there for life. Incredible.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

Yes, an unbelievably tragic real life story which I really only heard about when the Scottish director/actor Peter Mullan brought it to life in 2002 in his brutal and dehumanising film, The Magdalene Sisters; a former Magdalen Asylum inmate told him that although his film was pretty hard to watch, the reality was much worse than he depicted.

A Guardian article on Tuesday 5th February 2013, headlined "Ireland finally admits state collusion in the Magdalene Laundry system", after a ten-year struggle for justice with the publishing of a long-awaited report by Senator Martin McAleese, which surely makes it doubly worse, as with Church and State in cohorts, what chance did these young supposedly 'fallen' women have of making a decent life for themselves outside the institutions they were forced to inhabit for no education or wages. Over 74 years it is estimated that 30,000 women were put to work in de facto detention, mostly in laundries run by nuns. At least 988 of the women who were buried in laundry grounds are thought to have spent most of their lives inside the institutions.

The inquiry into the Magdalene scandal was prompted by a report from the UN Committee Against Torture in June 2011. It called for prosecutions where necessary and compensation to surviving women. However, there was great disappointment that the report said there was no physical abuse which is something a group called 'Magdalene Survivors Together' completely dispute, nor does it deal with the impact of psychological abuse that took place..."[The nuns] ate very well while we were on dripping, tea, bread. I remember another torture – one when we were all hungry – we could smell the likes of roast beef and cooked chicken wafting from where the nuns were eating. That was like another insult."

The Justice for the Magdalenes group said it was time for a compensation scheme to include "the provision of pensions, lost wages, health and housing services. Magdalene survivors have waited too long for justice and this should not be now burdened with a complicated legal process or closed-door policy of compensation." The state gave lucrative laundry contracts to these institutions, without complying with Fair Wage Clauses and in the absence of any compliance with Social Insurance obligations.

As you say Caiss, incredible and I would add horrific!






Edited by Mobson, Feb 12 2013, 01:32 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
waiting4atickle
Member Avatar


Nowadays people have to work for nothing in Poundland. Or do they?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21426928

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

On Front Row this evening Mark Lawson discussed a new cinema documentary film he saw earlier today which explores the charged issued of pedophilia in the Catholic Church, following a trail from the first known protest against clerical abuse in the US all the way to the Vatican; it's release here later this week happens to coincide with the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI.

Oscar winning documentary writer/director Alex Gibney's film Mea Maxima Culpa: Silence in the House of God, features the departing Pontiff and charts the claims of sexual abuse made by individuals who were in the care of Catholic priests in the US, and how many similar claims from across the world made their way to the highest level in Rome.

Gibney has enlisted the voices of actors Ethan Hawke, Chris Cooper, John Slattery and Jamey Sheridan to read the transcripts and stories of the group of deaf men who exposed a pedophile priest who ran St John's School for deaf children in Milwaukee, Wisconsin in the 1970's, and preyed on them for many years. Later in the film, there is another case of deaf children being abused in Verona Italy.

The film informs of the involvement of the current Pope, who was elected in 2005. Before his appointment as Pope, for 25 years he led the Vatican office familiar (the Vatican civil service) with the most severe cases of sex abuse by priests; the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith - the CDF has a dark history, when it was founded in the 16th century it was known as the Inquisition..from 2001 all serious cases of sex abuse that involved a minor ended up on Cardinal Ratzinger's desk.

One idea in the film that almost belies belief is the idea to buy an island in say the Caribbean, on which to put all pedophile priests! There were priests who tried to fight the system from the inside when knowledge of the abuse became known and tried to get the 'bad apples' removed but they were told that the Church would deal with the matter internally.

One of the most interesting stories is that of the priest, Rev.Marcial Maciel Degollando, who started an order in Mexico but had several mistresses and quite a few children, and was known to the Vatican for over fifteen years as a possible abuser of young children after a group lodged formal charges in 1998. A few days before John Paul II died, Cardinal Ratzinger announced his intention of removing filth from the church. In 2006 he was disciplined by the now Pope Benedict but spared an ecclestiastical trial because of advancing age and weak health...he was asked to give up his public ministry in favour of a 'quiet life' of praying and penitence and a quiet life for the new Pope as well, who as a Cardinal had opened an investigation into Maciel and then closed it. Marciel died in Florida in 2008, but revelations continued in July 2009, when a Spanish daily published an interview with a woman who had a child with Maciel in 1986 and now lives in a luxury apartment in Madrid which Maciel purchased for her. A day later, Mexican media reported that an attorney, José Bonilla, will represent three of a possible total of six of Maciel's children in a civil suit to recover Maciel's estate. The lawyer claimed that there are several properties in Mexico and around the world which Maciel owned in his own name.

The film moves from the US to Ireland to deal with the Singing Priest, Tony Walsh, who's shown doing an impression of Elvis Presley, and who was revealed in the Murphy Report in 2010 to be Ireland's most notorious pedophile, committing over two hundreds acts of abuse. There are unbelievable stories about the abuse in Ireland with the knowledge of the Vatican e.g. two priests in the know, who swore an act of secrecy, are now bishops. In 2010, the Pope tried to ratify matters by sending a letter to the bishops in Ireland saying, amongst other things, that they did not follow canon law, putting the blame squarely on them - some were incensed and that prompted a few people to come out of the woodwork....

Lawsuits galore ensued with lawyers acting on behalf of the survivors of abuse for billions of dollars; they attempted to serve papers on the Vatican which were returned with the comment "undesired and unwanted" on the envelope. Geoffrey Robinson QC, a human rights lawyer, became involved and wrote a book called The Case of the Pope. He says, "The Vatican is not a real state, it's a religious enclave in Rome - it has its power because of its historical anomaly". He says "178 countries now acknowledge the Vatican as a State. Politicians like to have the blessing of The Pope, who is considered beyond law; "it will be, I think, an important task to work out how to bring the Pope beneath the law by arguing either that the Vatican is not a real state or that the degree of his negligence over the child abuse scandal does him involve him in a crime against humanity."

There may be the clue to why the Pope Benedict has resigned...there is a strong desire from the organisations of the victims who are demanding full transparency about the past; they want the archives opened at the Vatican and details revealed of all victims of abuse within the Church and the Pope is unwilling or unable to do this. He, and those at the head of the church still seem to think the Church is the victim not the people; but without the people, their congregation, there is no church.

The film, which has the style of a Godfather film at times when trying to link sex cases directly to the Vatican, was released in the States last November and will be given a limited release here in the UK from Friday 15th February, but I have viewed it for free on-line this evening...it's 106 minutes long; it's extremely compelling, extraordinary, revealing....and disconcerting.

I would add the comments of one reviewer "Do see this film and support it for the important work it does in exposing a very serious abuse of trust by an Institution with tremendous power that still doggedly refuses to hold itself accountable for so many horrendous crimes."

http://viooz.eu/movies/15909-mea-maxima-culpa-silence-in-the-house-of-god-2012.html
Edited by Mobson, Feb 13 2013, 10:37 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

After my lengthy diatribe above, suffice to say that the film Mea Maxima Culpa is being talked about in my London and film world circles; you can see still see it for free instead of paying the price of a cinema ticket in the link in post 28...another timely film can be seen this evening on BBC1...
Quote:
 

Cassier: Yes, I knew about the Magdalene's but read recently that if any escaped they were hunted down by the Garda and just taken back. They were in there for life. Incredible.

Quote:
 
Mobson: Yes, an unbelievably tragic real life story which I really only heard about when the Scottish director/actor Peter Mullan brought it to life in 2002 in his brutal and dehumanising film, The Magdalene Sisters; a former Magdalen Asylum inmate told him that although his film was pretty hard to watch, the reality was much worse than he depicted.
So I said, what timely progamming, showing of Peter Mullan's excellent film on BBC1 tonight, especially after the Irish Government's action last Tuesday taken by Prime Minister Enda Kenny, in which he offered an unreserved state apology on Tuesday over Ireland’s failure to protect thousands of young women and girls consigned to virtual slavery in the so-called “Magdalene laundries” between 1922 and 1996.

In a long-awaited, emotional parliamentary address, Mr. Kenny said women “who are and always were wholly blameless” not only deserved a formal apology for what they had suffered but also counseling and financial support. On behalf of the Ireland government and citizens, he apologized “unreservedly to all those women for the hurt that was done to them, and for any stigma they suffered, as a result of the time they spent in a Magdalene laundry.”

Following his address, politicians from all sides gave a standing ovation to the survivors of the laundries and their supporters who embraced one another in the packed public gallery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syve2i2JzXs

The Magdalene Sisters (2002) BBC1 @ 11.35pm


Edited by Mobson, Feb 21 2013, 03:54 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
caissier
Member Avatar
Administrator
I saw that as it started but couldn't watch any more ...... the unthinkable cruelty, which went on for so long. I see Enda Kelly officially apologised for it - something I suppose. There was one girl whose baby was taken away but kept in a different part of the institution where she was imprisoned. She bribed someone to hold it up so she could see it from a distance, then never saw her child again.

The Ulster Unionists said one reason for opposing a united Ireland was the power of the Catholic church. They had a point there.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

I've tried to watch it previously...didn't attempt a view this time. Enda Kelly did apologise in the Irish parliament (clip in my post 29) but the apology has been condemned by campaigners...

The Ulster Unionists were not wrong in their thinking then, for this scandal and child abuse by priests
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
dai Cottomy
Member Avatar

This was a shocking and disturbing film which left me upset and angry. But it showed, through brilliant acting, that the human spirit thrives in spite of circumstances such as those portrayed. The trouble is, human degradation is still rife everywhere (and probably always will be).
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

Turning away from the scandals relating to Vatican gay officials and continuing allegations and resignations of their priests, at least for today, Vatican City are preparing for what the media are reporting as "an extraordinary event" (at least in Catholic history)...the last full day in the job of Pope Benedict XV1 addressing his catholic flock for his final audience and blessing...55,000 red tickets for entry to the concourse enclosure of Vatican City have been distributed...not sure whether it is a 'paying event' or a donation is requested...and they are expecting an overall crowd of around 200,000. The Pope will be transported in the Popemobile in St Peter's Square in order that Catholic followers and the general public can say goodbye.

He's the first pope to resign since 1415 and when his tenure is officially over tomorrow, he'll become known as "pope emeritus" and after saying a farewell to the Cardinals, he'll be transported by helicopter to the summer palace Castel Gandolfo where he is expected to appear at a window overlooking the public square to bless the crowd. He will cease to be Pope at 7pm tomorrow and the Swiss Guards will be dismissed and replaced by Vatican police.

From 4th March, the College of Cardinals will meet in general congregations to discuss the problems facing the Church and set a date for the start of the secret election, or conclave, to elect Pope Benedict's successor.

Lots of talk still about his 'sudden and premature' resignation - looking at his frail frame and slightly worn-out demeanor I would hazard a guess that all the publicity and truths that are coming out almost daily about the sad state of affairs surrounding the clergy have finally ground him down...knowing that he was once the head of the 'department' that these unsavoury matters came to, ending up on his desk, has worn him down.

Pope Benedict will see out his life in prayer, "hidden from the world", he said on Thursday, in his first personal comments on his plans since he announced his retirement. "Even if I am withdrawing into prayer, I will always be close to all of you and I am sure that you will be close to me, even if I remain hidden to the world," he said.
Edited by Mobson, Feb 27 2013, 12:34 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
May-Cee

He gets to keep the white tunic; but has to hand over the red slippers.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
dai Cottomy
Member Avatar

Depravity-wise, not a patch on the Borgias



Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rumbaba
Member Avatar

Ian Paisley used to call the Pope 'the scarlet woman of Rome', his evidence being that 'the Pope wears red socks'.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

May-Cee
Feb 27 2013, 03:35 PM
He gets to keep the white tunic; but has to hand over the red slippers.
Here I break one of the ten commandments - I covet those red leather slippers! <devi>;;
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hugh Mosby-Joaquin
Member Avatar

Given that Benny is not allowed to slope of in the red shoes, what happens to them? Is it worth me dropping in to the Vatican branch of Oxfam to see if they are on offer?
Or are we to assume that god's next first minister on Earth has to inherit some second-hand footwear? Has austerity finally reached the Vatican?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

I think I heard on last night's news that they get incinerated and replaced with a pair in a rather subdued brown leather, but no austerity at the Vat, as they have been made to measure for him by the hand of a master cobbler.... (Lobb perhaps <laugh> ) .

His rather splendid bit of bling ...his signet ring gets smashed to smithereens by a mallet....no visible perks allowed for the reclusive monastic path that lies ahead it seems... <candle> ... hope he can see the light!
Edited by Mobson, Mar 1 2013, 08:47 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rumbaba
Member Avatar

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Ab_IO-SlK5w&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DAb_IO-SlK5w&gl=GB
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hugh Jampton
Member Avatar

The HoI and I got blessed by the pope [not this one] at Castel Gandolfo.

I'm not all that religious but. it was a very moving hern to be at.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

Hugh Jampton
Feb 28 2013, 09:00 PM
The HoI and I got blessed by the pope [not this one] at Castel Gandolfo.

I'm not all that religious but. it was a very moving hern to be at.
The "HoI" - is that Heart of Iron OR a person of Hawaiian decent? - and you were blessed Hugh - how did that come about then? Presumably it was John Paul II (1978-2005) who did the honours...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hugh Jampton
Member Avatar

Mobson
Mar 2 2013, 10:55 AM
Hugh Jampton
Feb 28 2013, 09:00 PM
The HoI and I got blessed by the pope [not this one] at Castel Gandolfo.

I'm not all that religious but. it was a very moving hern to be at.
The "HoI" - is that Heart of Iron OR a person of Hawaiian decent? - and you were blessed Hugh - how did that come about then? Presumably it was John Paul II (1978-2005) who did the honours...
Yes. That's who it was , Mobs. That's him in the bottom pictuere doing it.He'd just hung that rug out to dry when he spotted us Posted Image.

We were two of the thousands of folk in the square in front of the Castel who got blessed.

[The HoI is the 'Head of Intelligence' at our house. I'm the HoCS, 'Head of Common Sense]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hugh Mosby-Joaquin
Member Avatar

Mobson
Feb 28 2013, 05:31 PM
I think I heard on last night's news that they get incinerated and replaced with a pair in a rather subdued brown leather, but no austerity at the Vat, as they have been made to measure for him by the hand of a master cobbler.... (Lobb perhaps <laugh> ) .

It would be nonsense for an octogenarian to have a pair of shoes made by Lobb, as the main reason anybody goes to this most traditional London shoemaker is because the lasts are stored for their lifetime, and more, so as the shoes can be re-lasted if needed. A waste of money for a pope, therefore.
Anyway, papal-shoe trivia:
Pope Paul I, had Paul VI's cast-offs, but that was a a stroke of luck as he was only Pope for a month. So they are not necessarily destroyed nor are they seemingly given to the poor and needy of Rome.
And Benedict's were made by Antonio Arellano of Rome. who really are (dare I say it again....), "Cobblers to the Pope".
Look in the Gammarelli website for Papal outfits, they do a nice line in red silk socks for €32....
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

Of course I was JOKING about Lobb! - they've been my neighbours for over forty-five years; I have a last for black leather boots! <star>

The Popes traditionally wear indoor slippers and outdoor walking shoes...the last Pope but one decided not to wear the gregarious Red colour choosing normal brown leather...On the election of the now ex-Pope Benedict in 2005, he decided to reinstate the tradition of red papal footwear which prompted articles in the Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal & GQ Mag, amongst others, spuriously hinting that they might be made for the Pope by PRADA!...

According to the Gentlemen's Gazette, the Pope's shoes are made by Adriano Stefanelli...It says "In 2002, Andriano Stefanelli from Novara, near Milan, sent a pair of his handmade red shoes to Pope John Paul II and he was so impressed by these, that he became a customer of Stefanelli. Interestingly, his successor Pope Benedict continued the tradition of having the shoes made at Stefanelli. However, while John Paul II preferred to wear dark red leather shoes, Pope Benedict prefers the classic ruby red."

In this link, the video shows Adriano Stefanelli, a shoemaker of three generations, making the Pope's shoes and presenting them to him in St Peter's Square....

http://www.gentlemansgazette.com/adriano-stefanelli-the-popes-shoemaker/

Adriano Stefanelli's website is worth a look for the music alone!

http://www.adriano-stefanelli.it/en/index.php
Attached to this post:
Attachments: Pope_s_Red_Loafers_Papal_shoemaker_Adriano_Stefanelli.jpg (16.62 KB)
Edited by Mobson, Mar 3 2013, 01:59 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

Mobson
Feb 28 2013, 05:31 PM
His rather splendid bit of bling ...his signet ring gets smashed to smithereens by a mallet....no visible perks allowed for the reclusive monastic path that lies ahead it seems... <candle> ... hope he can see the light!
As for his 'Ring of the Fisherman' - courtesy of the ny daily news which shows a picture of the ring up close - it will be destroyed using a special silver papal hammer - not a mallet then! ...“This is to make sure no one will forge a document in the Pope’s name after the Pope dies,” said Fordham University theology Prof. Maureen Tilley. But there’s one ritual Benedict won’t endure....

Traditionally, a cardinal would approach a Pope moments after his death and tap his head three times with a silver hammer to ensure that he was deceased.

“The custom comes before we knew a lot about brain death,” said Prof Tilley.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/papal-ring-sign-official-documents-destroyed-article-1.1274459
Attached to this post:
Attachments: The_Pope_s_Fisherman_s_Ring.jpg (98.58 KB)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

Hugh Jampton
Mar 2 2013, 05:37 PM
Mobson
Mar 2 2013, 10:55 AM
Hugh Jampton
Feb 28 2013, 09:00 PM
The HoI and I got blessed by the pope [not this one] at Castel Gandolfo.

I'm not all that religious but. it was a very moving hern to be at.
The "HoI" - is that Heart of Iron OR a person of Hawaiian decent? - and you were blessed Hugh - how did that come about then? Presumably it was John Paul II (1978-2005) who did the honours...
Yes. That's who it was , Mobs. That's him in the bottom pictuere doing it.He'd just hung that rug out to dry when he spotted us Posted Image.

We were two of the thousands of folk in the square in front of the Castel who got blessed.

[The HoI is the 'Head of Intelligence' at our house. I'm the HoCS, 'Head of Common Sense]
That was fortuitous that you passed by whilst he was doing a little houseclean! Must have been heart stopping nevertheless and something to remember for keeps.... <magic>


<ok> thanks for the clarification of the HoI/CS
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hugh Jampton
Member Avatar

That's just how it was, Mobs.

Those two old Italian ladies sitting with the HoI in the top photo, were in tears when it happened.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
becky sharp
Member Avatar

Latest betting on who will be the next Pope...

Ranging from ...

Archbishop Angelo Scola (Italy) 5/2
to...

Richard Dawkins (UK) 666/1


Father Dougal Maguire (Craggy Island) 1000/1


Bono (Ireland) 1000/1

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/novelty-betting/current-affairs/pope-betting?AFF_ID=17389&ef_id=UJPrnwAAFpWcgK8U%3A20130302124818%3As&gclid=CL2T5s2I3rUCFcLHtAodMHIAyg&http%3A%2F%2Fwww.paddypower.com%2Fbet%2Fnovelty-betting%2Fcurrent-affairs%2Fpope-betting%3FAFF_ID=17389

I'd vote for Father Dougal ..... <ok> :D
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

I fancy Father Ted! <haloa>
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lurkalot

might as well have father abrahams and his smurfs! <magic> would be a popular choice <devi>;;
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Norm Deplume
Member Avatar

Tony Blair is a good odds on bet
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lurkalot

Norm Deplume
Mar 9 2013, 06:12 PM
Tony Blair is a good odds on bet
Quote:
 
from wiki: In an interview with Michael Parkinson broadcast on ITV1 on 4 March 2006, Blair referred to the role of his Christian faith in his decision to go to war in Iraq, stating that he had prayed about the issue, and saying that God would judge him for his decision: "I think if you have faith about these things, you realise that judgement is made by other people ... and if you believe in God, it's made by God as well."[


indeed judgement is made by God! <laugh>

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
waiting4atickle
Member Avatar


The reason for fighting
I never got straight
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don’t count the dead
When God’s on your side


The Zim


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

and they're off!
Attached to this post:
Attachments: and_they_re_off.....jpg (142.23 KB)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
madfor4

I propose Abu Qatada...If selected he'll leave the UK voluntarily
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rumbaba
Member Avatar

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21764446

Popeless
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hugh Jampton
Member Avatar

I think either Boris or Hillary would make good popes.

My vote goes for Hillary because we need Boris to put things right here.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
caissier
Member Avatar
Administrator
Posted Image

Pope Boris! Trademark hair suppressed according to the teachings of the church. Celibate for the same reason.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
caissier
Member Avatar
Administrator
Posted Image

This bulletin by bulletin waiting for the smoke from the stove-pipe .......... It's so 1950s-style media fake-excitement, encouraging us to be all excited about who'll be the next Pope. What's the betting at William Hill?? ...... all to find out who's the next twinkly eyed cuddly figure to condemn millions to poverty and misery by vetoing contraception and abortion and preside over corruption and the rest of it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
waiting4atickle
Member Avatar


William Hill don't seem to be quoting odds on the Papal Stakes, but according to Oddschecker, Ladbrokes offer 9/4 Angelo Scola, 3/1 Odilo Pedro Scherer, 6/1 Peter Turkson and 500/1 Tony Blair. Boris isn't quoted.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
caissier
Member Avatar
Administrator
Maybe they should just have a 100m race at the Rome Olympics stadium and the winner/fittest gets the job. Possibly the longest living and therefore most likely to provide 'stability'.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rumbaba
Member Avatar

There will be no great reformer. It was considered a breakthrough when a Polish Pope was elected but he was a reactionary and, like his German replacement, packed the Vatican with a load of cardinals like himself. Just as the election of Margaret Thatcher as PM did nothing for the cause of women, don't expect a Pope from the third world to be a 'breath of fresh air' in the Vatican.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lurkalot

in the words of harry hill "which is a better Pope? there is only one way to find out! FIGHT!" <ninja>
Edited by Lurkalot, Mar 13 2013, 11:30 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rumbaba
Member Avatar

Why don't they just ask God?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

Think they've overcooked the flues <doh>

Posted Image
Attached to this post:
Attachments: _22Black_Smoked_22.jpg (24.79 KB)
Edited by caissier, Mar 14 2013, 01:27 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lurkalot

well there's no smoke without fire!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rumbaba
Member Avatar

White smoke!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
madfor4

Well, at least they've gone for a youngster...a mere stripling of 76
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lurkalot

Pope Francis I?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
waiting4atickle
Member Avatar


Don't cry for me, Argentina?

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lurkalot

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21777494

yep! 76 years old! Papa francis!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
becky sharp
Member Avatar

caissier
Feb 12 2013, 12:05 PM
Yes, I knew about the Magdalene's but read recently that if any escaped they were hunted down by the Garda and just taken back. They were in there for life. Incredible.

Ireland agrees compensation for Magdalene Laundries survivors



Reuters) - The Irish government has agreed to pay up 58 million euros (48.93 million pounds) to hundreds of women forced to work at the Catholic Church's notorious Magdalene Laundries after a report found that a quarter of them were sent there by the Irish state.

The laundries, depicted in the award-winning film "The Magdalene Sisters", put 10,000 women and girls as young as nine through uncompromising hardship from the foundation of the Irish state in 1922 until 1996.

Run by Catholic nuns, the laundries have been accused of treating inmates like slaves, imposing a regime of fear and prayer on girls sometimes put in their care for becoming pregnant outside marriage.

One in 10 inmates died, the youngest at 15.

Under the compensation scheme, several hundred surviving inmates will receive up to 100,000 euros each, depending on how long they spent in the laundries, with a total cost to the state of between 34.5 million and 58 million euros.

"I hope that when you look back to today you will be able to say that the arrangements now announced constitute a sincere expression of the state's regret for failing you in the past," Justice Minister Alan Shatter said.

While some survivors groups welcomed the move, others were more sceptical.

"This has destroyed my life to date and all this that is going on will never take away our hurt," former inmate Mary Smith told state broadcaster RTE.

Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny in February apologised in parliament for the "national shame" of the laundries after a report found that a quarter of the women were sent there by the Irish state.

The apology followed investigations into clerical sex abuse and state-abetted cover-ups that have shattered the authority of the church in Ireland and rocked the Catholic Church's reputation worldwide.

However, unlike other reports where priests were found to have beaten and raped children in Catholic-run institutions, no allegations of sexual or physical abuse were made against the nuns.

Former inmates spoke instead of physically demanding work, enforced by scoldings and humiliation, at the laundries that operated on a commercial basis to wash linen and clothes for the state, private firms and individuals.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/06/26/uk-ireland-laundries-compensation-idUKBRE95P18B20130626
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mobson
Member Avatar

<ok> That'll be some of our money then - aren't ~Ireland~ bust! <yikes>
Edited by Mobson, Jun 27 2013, 08:44 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums. Reliable service with over 8 years of experience.
« Previous Topic · Current Affairs - Politics / Economics · Next Topic »
Add Reply