| Poor excuse for a human being. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 3 2013, 11:46 AM (797 Views) | |
| becky sharp | Apr 3 2013, 11:46 AM Post #1 |
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The more you hear of this piece of low life the more despicable he becomes ..if that is possible. ..." even wanted hundreds of teddy bears left outside the burned-out home by well-wishers in tribute to the children to be auctioned off - telling one fundraiser: "Shut up and just get on with it." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9967260/Derby-fire-Mick-Philpott-saw-childrens-funeral-donations-as-way-to-get-rich-quick.html |
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| Mobson | Apr 3 2013, 12:38 PM Post #2 |
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This is an unbelievable nightmare of a story...a real tragedy for children to be borne of a man described as psychopath, a control freak and an exhibitionist. After the verdict relating to Philpott was returned yesterday, he made the sign of the cross and kissed his necklace six times before saying: "It's not over yet, mate." Mick Mairead Philpott and Paul Mosley are to be sentenced on six counts of manslaughter, each, for the death of the six children in a house fire in Derby last May. The Judge has been addressing the court after Mick Philpott's previous convictions were heard this morning...(he was actually on bail for an offence when the tragic fire took place last year)... In 1978 for attacking Kimberley Hill Mick Philpott was jailed for 7 years for attempted murder and 5 years for causing Grevious Bodily Harm with intent for attack on Ms.Hill's mother. As a result of the attack Ms Hill suffered two punctured lungs, and a punctured kidney, liver and bladder. She had to be resuscitated twice in hospital. She also still takes medication, has an inhaler, requires anti-depressants to this day, and is still receiving counselling. In 1991 Mick Philpott was given a conditional discharge for 'Actual Bodily Harm' after head-butting a fellow worker at a bakery. In 2010 Mick Philpott was cautioned by police after slapping his wife Mairead twice in the face and dragging her from the house by her hair. He told police he'd done it after Mairead had hit one of their children. On 3rd May 2012, Mick Philpott pleaded guilty to common assault following a 'road rage' incident on 30th November 2011. On that occasion he attacked a driver called Jonathan Welham in Uttoxeter Road, Derby. He punched him in the face. Initially, Philpott told police that it was he who had been assaulted by Mr Welham. The prosecution has in the light of yesterday's verdict asked for the road rage incident not to be proceeded with. Panorama broadcast their investigations last night entitled: The Derby Fire: Secrets and Lies http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01s119h/Panorama_The_Derby_Fire_Secrets_and_Lies/ Edited by Mobson, Apr 3 2013, 12:49 PM.
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| Mobson | Apr 3 2013, 12:49 PM Post #3 |
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The Judge is going to reflect on the submissions but not sentence until 3pm this afternoon. |
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| Mobson | Apr 3 2013, 01:24 PM Post #4 |
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Breaking news: Sentencing of Philpotts and Paul Mosley to be delayed until tomorrow judge says... Philpott set to face new police investigation for rape...."Mick Philpott is set to be quizzed over allegations he raped a woman in his caravan in 2005." says Derby Telegraph. Reports say the alleged victim told detectives he spiked her cup of tea before attacking her. Derbyshire police has not confirmed whether it has received an allegation of rape relating to Philpott. However assistant chief constable Steve Cotterill said today: “Any allegations or issues arising from this investigation will be followed up and investigated thoroughly.“Where appropriate, and where there is sufficient evidence, a file will be submitted to the CPS for their consideration as to whether any charges should be brought against Michael Philpott or any other individual.” Let's hope as many as have been affected by this odious man, decide to come out of the woodwork and fix him for good! 17 children by five woman is enough for any reprobate to have sired. Edited by Mobson, Apr 3 2013, 01:37 PM.
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| rumbaba | Apr 3 2013, 02:16 PM Post #5 |
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I heard Ann Widdicombe on the radio today, lacing 'dependency-culture' ranting with her new-found Catholicism (not big on forgiveness though). It seems everything about Mick Phillpott was the fault of the 'dependency-culture', except killing his children, which was down to his 'wickedness'. |
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| Mobson | Apr 3 2013, 03:10 PM Post #6 |
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I was surprised when I heard her name (the most unlikely doxy there ever was) linked to this man...she was on the lunchtime news wasn't she...I could not understand what she was actually saying...
Edited by Mobson, Apr 3 2013, 04:03 PM.
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| rumbaba | Apr 3 2013, 03:23 PM Post #7 |
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She 'lived with' (dunno what the sleeping arrangements were) the Phillpotts for a week for some programme called 'Ann Widdecombe versus The Benefit Culture' , so in this instance, she does actually have a connection. |
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| becky sharp | Apr 3 2013, 03:45 PM Post #8 |
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? Not a word you hear every day |
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| caissier | Apr 3 2013, 03:54 PM Post #9 |
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He went on Jeremy Kyle too. Really his horrible conduct is so extreme he could have had an insanity plea entered on his behalf ..... but that kind of behaviour is not that unusual - going back there was the Shannon Matthews case. It's not the dependency culture thing imo (well done Widdy) more an accumulated desperation on the part of some in that social situation. The West case had similarities. I've come across things like that through work - just makes you groan. Atrocities go on in all social circumstances, but this has finger-pointing at the Untouchables to it. It's reported that when he went to the mortuary to see his children's bodies he faked fainting for effect, and in the pub was karaoke-singing Suspicious Minds. |
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| Mobson | Apr 3 2013, 04:08 PM Post #10 |
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1) Castrated 2) Incarcerated 3) Dehydrated 4) Incinerated ....is what my suggestions to the surmising Judge would be....if they ( the law) go lightly here it will be scandalous...and we should all revolt. Edited by Mobson, Apr 3 2013, 06:22 PM.
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| madfor4 | Apr 3 2013, 09:35 PM Post #11 |
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I heard Anne Widdicombe explaining that, although the 'relationship was strange', he loved the children and they him.... A tragic case of jealousy and anger in which everything went wrong...he and his partner, at least to my mind, should be more pitied than condemned... |
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| waiting4atickle | Apr 3 2013, 11:43 PM Post #12 |
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Yes, but which partner? |
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| Mobson | Apr 4 2013, 10:17 AM Post #13 |
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The judge, Mrs Justice Thirlwall, has just pronounced sentence on these three murderers....Mike Philpott has been given the maximum sentence for manslaughter of Life, and has been told he will serve the minimum term of 15 years before parole can be considered. "You were the driving force behind this shockingly dangerous enterprise". "You were the kingpin and no one else matters"...."I sentence on the basis that you did not intend to kill your children ... [But] you did intend to subject your children to a terrifying ordeal. They had no chance of survival ... you simply did not care. You are a disturbingly dangerous man, you have no moral compass." Mairead Philpott has been a sentence of 17 years and is told she will be required to serve one half of that before being released on licence..."You put Michael Philpott above your children and as a result they have died." Paul Mosley has also been given a sentence of 17 years and will be required to serve half before being released on licence. The judge told him "You have lost all contact with your children you may not see them until they are adults." Edited by Mobson, Apr 4 2013, 10:36 AM.
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| becky sharp | Apr 4 2013, 12:25 PM Post #14 |
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From various newspapers on -line Philpott relatives recount bizarre behaviour in aftermath of house fire Couple engaged in shopping sprees and karaoke sessions in the days following the blaze that killed six of their children The bizarre behaviour of Mick and Mairead Philpott following the deaths of their six children included engaging in hospital food fights, going on shopping sprees while the community was raising funds for the funerals and singing Suspicious Minds in a pub karaoke session. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/apr/03/mick-mairead-philpott-bizarre-behaviour Such was Mr Philpott's hold on women that after the fire that killed his children he got his wife to perform a sex act on the third co-conspirator, Mosley, which the crown said was carried out to keep him on side as part of the plot. Mr Philpott had children with five partners, claiming welfare benefits for himself and forcing women in his life to hand over money to him. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/apr/04/mick-philpott-jailed-derby-fire Justice Thirwall described Mr Philpott as a "disturbingly dangerous man" with "no moral compass", and said his guiding principle was "what Mick Philpott wants, Mick Philpott gets." The judge said that Mick Philpott had become obsessed with his ex 29-year-old Lisa Willis, after she left the family home with her children three months earlier, and had done everything to get her back. Justice Thirwall told Mr Philpott: "You could not stand the fact that she had crossed you. You were determined to make sure she came back and you began to put together your plan." http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/disturbingly-dangerous-no-moral-compass-the-driving-force-judge-hands-michael-philpott-a-life-sentence-8559622.html Philpott claimed he used a ladder in what Derbyshire Police described as "apparent valiant attempts" to rescue them. However, Det Supt Kate Meynell was starting to hear a different side to the story from the Philpotts' neighbours, who had also tried to rescue the children that night. She said: "Within a few days they commented on how they felt they were making more effort to rescue the children and that Michael Philpott was not as instrumental as he should have been." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-22013080 Even the families of the couple had welcomed the guilty verdicts when they were returned by the jury at Nottingham crown court on Tuesday after a trial which heard about their complicated private lives and Mr Philpott's history of violence against his partners. It was revealed that Mr Philpott had been on bail at the time of the fire after a violent road rage attack. He had punched a driver after forcing him to stop because he believed he had pulled out in front of him at a roundabout. He admitted common assault but was awaiting trial on a charge of dangerous driving. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/apr/04/mick-philpott-jailed-derby-fire Mairead was crying as the judge addressed her and said: "You put Michael Philpott above your children. You put his obsession with Lisa above the safety of those children." Much more here ..... http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Mick-Philpott-jailed-life-killing-children/story-18609284-detail/story.html#axzz2PULWKpVR All my compassion lies with the six dead children. ![]() |
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| Mobson | Apr 4 2013, 12:33 PM Post #15 |
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I agree the more stories that the media are revealing are showing this man, who impregnated five different women with 17 children, to be a selfish and controlling monster...there are six innocent dead children who will never know how good life can be, thanks to their own parents action...it really does belie belief that anyone can sympathise with these three adults....
Edited by Mobson, Apr 4 2013, 12:35 PM.
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| madfor4 | Apr 4 2013, 12:35 PM Post #16 |
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Becky.....................From various newspapers ................... is the phrase that catches my eye. How accurate are the headlines? Philpott is not a nice person; his partners are those who gravitate to such males. However, they did not intend to kill the children, who no-one has denied were loved and gave love in return. It was a reckless act which had tragic consequences.... I stand by my earlier remarks... |
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| Mobson | Apr 4 2013, 12:39 PM Post #17 |
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You feel pity for a couple who killed their six children ....shame on you mads. |
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| Mobson | Apr 4 2013, 12:46 PM Post #18 |
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Two things I am glad to see...a woman finally telling Philpott what to do and he will have to obey, and that his tenure behind bars will finally put an end to his disturbing, salacious behaviour...he will continue whilst he lives to be a drain on the state...but one not of his choosing...I hope he dies in jail.... |
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| becky sharp | Apr 4 2013, 12:57 PM Post #19 |
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And that, of course, is your prerogative,mads. The sources I quoted The Guardian The Independent The BBC The Derby Telegraph |
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| caissier | Apr 4 2013, 01:11 PM Post #20 |
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The Panorama programme was informative about the details. It is hard to get to grips with the whole events ..... it is all so bizarre. He is obviously a socio-path or psychopath of some kind. He did horrible things all his life, so much so that even though he killed his children, there is a question about how responsible he is. He appeared to live in a kind of fantasy blur of arrogant delusion on the margins of society. He had found the knack of controlling, manipulating and intimidating others. His behaviour after the fire was appalling but also just mad. He thought he could blag his way through life, was omnipotent and could get away with anything but ran up against shocking reality. I feel some pity for his wife, Mairead ..... I think she was emotionally very vulnerable. He used her and dominated her and drew her into his madness, rather like Rosemary West and Myra Hindley . If they had not encountered certain men they would have had conventional lives. His friend Paul Mosley is maybe the most guilty imo. He didn't have to be involved and go along with it. Edited by caissier, Apr 4 2013, 01:43 PM.
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| rumbaba | Apr 4 2013, 01:13 PM Post #21 |
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I am concerned about the way vile newspapers, the Daily Mail in particular, are using this story as a general attack on anyone claiming benefit. This is feeding the divide and rule strategy of IDS and Osborne, encouraging people to despise the disabled, the old, disadvantaged and vulnerable, it's shameful. I have no sympathy whatever for Mick Phillpott, maybe some for the women he manipulated and controlled. |
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| caissier | Apr 4 2013, 01:36 PM Post #22 |
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World at One has just linked straight from the Derby fire into a long piece on welfare-benefit Tory black propaganda ..... shameful. You and Yours this morning had an item about, "for a change, the winners! in the 'extra room subsidy' (ie bedroom tax) ..... " ...... a sickly baby- talk thing interviewing a mummy and her ickle boy, pussy cat and pet lizard. It couldn't get round the statistic that 180,000 will be affected and there are only 100,000 properties for them to move to, leaving aside all the other considerations ..... and a box-room now counts as a bedroom. |
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| becky sharp | Apr 4 2013, 01:49 PM Post #23 |
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I heard AN Wilson (from The Mail) on the radio this morning saying that the Philpott tragedy is a consequence of the benefit system. In the discussion that followed (what I heard of it) he was roundly rubbished for his views |
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| Mobson | Apr 4 2013, 02:04 PM Post #24 |
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Men like him, and I hope they are few and far between, prey on vulnerable, unintelligent women...a woman of substance wouldn't give him the time of day - I'm sorry if I sound prejudiced but these woman are very rough types - Philpott's sister and sister-in-law screamed at the press core waiting outside the court after the verdict, using language that isn't worth repeating... Edited by Mobson, Apr 4 2013, 02:38 PM.
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| caissier | Apr 4 2013, 02:11 PM Post #25 |
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It's idiotic ...... there have always been a few large families - as, again, with Fred West. Mick Philpott was out of control in a lot of ways. It's an anomaly of the system ..... there'll always be problem instances. The money is meant for the children's welfare anyway; occasionally things break down. I don't know how he could get the material affluence he is portrayed as having. It's conceivable he was involved in crime of some sort. The benefit system has to assume recipients of child benefit are reasonably responsible. It is paid to mothers, isn't it? |
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| rumbaba | Apr 4 2013, 02:15 PM Post #26 |
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This story is a gift to the government, the timing couldn't be better and, whatever people say on the radio, the slow drip of poison will continue. People in need will feel ashamed, won't claim benefits they are entitled too and children, as well as the old and disabled will suffer. People will starve and die of cold in this country, it is already happening but the headlines will be about Mick Phillpott, hardly typical, but will be used as a stick to beat everyone else. Maybe Ann Widdicombe can seek out a struggling family coping with disability and poverty, rather than making sensationalist, propaganda TV to demonise people claiming benefits. |
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| caissier | Apr 4 2013, 02:18 PM Post #27 |
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It sounded as though he gave a V sign to the court as he was taken away - a 'gesture'. It's a rough world they inhabit. There is a scandal that it should exist ..... but it might be impossible to eradicate. It looks very much like the horrific Victorian underworld, as though that brutal jungle is always there, below the surface of imposed social forms, controls and behaviours. Mick Philpott and Bill Sykes. Edited by caissier, Apr 4 2013, 02:19 PM.
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| caissier | Apr 4 2013, 02:22 PM Post #28 |
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..... and isn't that slimy Osborne rushing to take advantage ..... of the death of six children; mealy- mouthed sly inferences about 'it's right ..... a debate that should be had'. Edited by caissier, Apr 4 2013, 02:24 PM.
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| madfor4 | Apr 4 2013, 05:02 PM Post #29 |
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Osborne has jumped on the bandwagon...."Dependancy Culture", etc. Philpott is no more indicative of those on benefits than Shipman was of the medical profession. However, Osborne has shown that there are no depths to which this government will not stoop....However, I'm minded that Lynton Crosby is 'on-board' the anti-welfare rhetoric; it sounds like this 'dispicable digger's' work...
Edited by madfor4, Apr 4 2013, 05:48 PM.
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| madfor4 | Apr 4 2013, 05:17 PM Post #30 |
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Why should I not pity them? They loved the children and they didn't intend their deaths....an out-of-control situation that ended in tragedy.... You don't have to like them or their lifestyle but they really thought, by their extreme action, they could get Philpott's other children. They were stupid, reckless and motivated by hatred but the children were innocent victims of a plan that went wrong. A father/mother who, insanely jealous of losing their children to their ex-partner, kills them deliberately is not unknown (often taking their own life afterwards). Do you consider such people as more or less guilty than these three? |
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| Mobson | Apr 4 2013, 06:11 PM Post #31 |
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You're right I don't have to like them and I certainly do not like their lifestyle, who would? but can you honestly say that you feel sympathy for a man like Philpott, who stabbed a previous partner 27 times*, viciously attacked her mother when she came to her defence and has used that attempted murder conviction ever since as a means of controlling other women, terrified as to what he would do to them." Jesus the man was a brute...I care not whether he loved his children or not - if there was any justice let alone a God he would not have been able to have children - in the final result, he was the instrument of death to six of his children and I personally hope he burns in hell. * http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2302777/Mick-Philpott-jailed-stabbing-ex-girlfriend-Kim-Hill-27-times-faces-rape-quiz.html Edited by Mobson, Apr 4 2013, 06:38 PM.
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| Mobson | Apr 4 2013, 06:13 PM Post #32 |
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....and why do you suppose he wanted to get those children, who are lucky they have escaped the fate of their half-siblings, to get more benefit money and a larger council house; I read that they knew they would have to be rehoused. As for killing themselves or in the case of Philpott, for I believe the wife to have been brainwashed, this man stood outside the burning house and let neighbours try to save his children rather than do the heroic thing - neighbours were speaking of the events this morning on television saying how they could not believe Philpott did not attempt to save his children - so killing himself! - never, this is a man who thinks far too highly of himself to do anything so brave, which is why when sentenced in court he put two fingers in the air. He had seventeen children didn't he...what of the rest of them - did he intend to get his hands on them? They too have had a lucky escape getting out of his control. Edited by Mobson, Apr 4 2013, 06:40 PM.
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| caissier | Apr 4 2013, 06:54 PM Post #33 |
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Either way he is going to have interesting times inside .... http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/apr/04/mick-philpott-celebrity-prisoner-rivals "Unless he changes his ways, he will find prisoners queuing up to put him in his place". |
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| Caro | Apr 4 2013, 08:15 PM Post #34 |
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I always feel some sympathy for the wrong people, but it does seem, discounting other acts, that this was a tragic misadventure, and not planned with any thought of killing the children. It pays to think of worst case scenarios when taking revenge on someone else, though. I have only heard rather brief accounts, which said people were angry about the couple receiving 24,000 pounds in benefits. I don't know the benefit system in Britain, but that doesn't sound a lot to me for looking after 6 children; I presume other people were paying for the other 11, though he may have been paying maintenance. Basically people don't like the thought of beneficiaries having too many children - as I've said elsewhere our sole mothers (or fathers) are expected to start looking for work when a second child is a year old. The assumption being this is a beneficiary 'lifestyle' and people need to be punished for it, or at least discouraged. But this approach doesn't seem to take into account poverty and how it grinds people down, or practical things like how people without transport get to work, or take children to daycare. There's two single (and not very bright) men in my community who have to hitchhike to the nearest town - 30 kms away - regularly (once a week?) to show their faces to Social Welfare. They live in our little supportive community, but things aren't made easy for them. |
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| Mobson | Apr 4 2013, 09:48 PM Post #35 |
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I personally do not care how many children other people have as long as they can try to be financially responsible for them. Philpott was not one of them ...he was content to let the State keep him and his extensive family. As for being ground down by poverty and things like lack of transport, that does not seem to apply here either since in an ITV documentary, a clip of which is shown in this week's Panorama film which I've just watched, he had a souped up sports car and an expensive 4 x 4 and inside the house a new fitted kitchen, a new widescreen tv, a state of the stereo and karaoke system...when asked by the presenter of the documentary how he did it...he replied "I've got a dog that I breed that brings a lovely income in" - the presenter went on to say it was clear that he wanted to live the life of Riley without lifting a finger to earn it. He was happy to let the State keep him in a manner he felt he deserved. Edited by Mobson, Apr 4 2013, 10:02 PM.
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| madfor4 | Apr 5 2013, 07:55 AM Post #36 |
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I don't presume to know why he wanted the children although the 'Daily Mail' clearly does. The children were, according to observers (including Ann Widdicombe), well fed, clothed and loved. I gather he received £8K in child benefits, one imagines that wouldn't cover the cost of keeping them so they would have been a drain on the lifestyle portrayed..... As for standing by watching them burn....If memory serves, initial reports had him being physically restrained from entering the house; when he became the perpetrator, rather than a victim, everything changed. There is no connection between this action and the overall 'benefit culture'....Had he two children and one child had been removed in a divorce he may well have acted in the same manner. He was a 'control freak'; it was the mere fact that one of HIS women left him that drove him to seek such extreme measures; to seek revenge by depriving her of the children by 'framing' her for causing the fire.... Let's leave the 'Benefits' connectionwhere it belongs; with Osborne and the 'Daily Mail'... |
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| Mobson | Apr 5 2013, 08:17 AM Post #37 |
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Initial reports may well have said that but it seems the neighbours who were there have now taken a different stance... As for the benefits question, there appears to be differing amounts being bandied about as to how much he actually receives. In the documentary I watched last night Ann Widdicombe said that Philpott had no intention of working, it is her words that are quoted in my post 35..i.e. that he wanted the life of Riley but did not want to work...she said well we would all like to do that but he was content to let the State keep him. This is not about benefits or lifestyle in the end it is about the death by fire of six children... Edited by Mobson, Apr 5 2013, 09:00 AM.
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| madfor4 | Apr 5 2013, 08:47 AM Post #38 |
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We can, certainly, agree on that...
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| Norm Deplume | Apr 5 2013, 10:07 AM Post #39 |
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In cases like this one it is a great pity that the death penalty law was voted out |
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| rumbaba | Apr 5 2013, 10:35 AM Post #40 |
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It was manslaughter, Norm, so wouldn't have applied in any case, death penalty or not. However, I think there are enough people dead in this tragic story, without adding to the toll. The judge did a good job in sentencing IMO, as harsh as she was able without creating obvious grounds for an appeal. It'll be up to the parole process to decide, after 15 years, when, if ever, he is let out. If he is released, it will be under licence for the rest of his life.
Edited by rumbaba, Apr 5 2013, 10:35 AM.
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| caissier | Apr 5 2013, 10:55 AM Post #41 |
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Perhaps it is one of those cases of Munchausen's Syndrome ..... attention seeking ....... who know? There is probably no rational explanation. He behaved in hateful ways and did a dreadful thing - was completely odious - but the reaction to that clouds a perception of the likelihood that he is nuts. It could be that he was not actually capable of work. He did finally try to carry out a 'project' and completely balls it up, not imagining or understanding how quickly the fire would spread. He then behaved in an obviously suspicious manner and easily gave himself away. There is a succession of people like him appearing on the Jeremy Kyle show. Harry Enfield and Paul Whitehouse accurately portrayed them. There are people of that kind on an estate down the road; not as bad (of course). One sees them and keeps a distance. Everybody else has been turning a blind eye, washing their hands. It's a sociological horror story. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quav-tLOh7M Edited by caissier, Apr 5 2013, 11:01 AM.
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| Mobson | Apr 5 2013, 11:05 AM Post #42 |
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....not forgetting that the police were on to him soon after the fire, bugging the Premier Inn where he and his wife were staying...but Philpott sussed that out saying "I hope you f..... coppers are listening"...but nevertheless the technology used by the police picked up their conversations even when they decided to whisper their deceits to one another....like "stick to the story"... Edited by Mobson, Apr 5 2013, 11:53 AM.
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