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Mrs Thatcher Dies
Topic Started: Apr 8 2013, 12:17 PM (2,474 Views)
madfor4

I'll say nothing....
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waiting4atickle
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Blimey! Three threads already and mad's saying nothing! (BTW, there's a Last Word board now, mad.)

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madfor4

waiting4atickle
Apr 8 2013, 12:20 PM

Blimey! Three threads already and mad's saying nothing! (BTW, there's a Last Word board now, mad.)

I was always brought up not to speak ill of the dead....I don't know how long that'll last...
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rumbaba
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You should only speak good of the dead. She's dead, good.
Edited by rumbaba, Apr 8 2013, 12:48 PM.
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rumbaba
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As Lionel Blair once said of Humphery Littleton
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caissier
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Here we go .........

She was hated so it'll be interesting to see how that works itself out. Could have political consequences too. They'll all be looking to see how to use it.
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madfor4

caissier
Apr 8 2013, 01:03 PM
Here we go .........

She was hated so it'll be interesting to see how that works itself out. Could have political consequences too. They'll all be looking to see how to use it.
Mr Cameron, who was in Madrid when the announcement of Lady Thatcher's death came, cancelled his planned talks with Spanish and French leaders and will fly home to London later today...
This is the same leader who had to be dragged back from holiday during the London riots....

It says much about his priorities; still there's a lot of media mileage to be made here....
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Mobson
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madfor4
Apr 8 2013, 01:27 PM
caissier
Apr 8 2013, 01:03 PM
Here we go .........

She was hated so it'll be interesting to see how that works itself out. Could have political consequences too. They'll all be looking to see how to use it.
Mr Cameron, who was in Madrid when the announcement of Lady Thatcher's death came, cancelled his planned talks with Spanish and French leaders and will fly home to London later today...
This is the same leader who had to be dragged back from holiday during the London riots....

It says much about his priorities; still there's a lot of media mileage to be made here....
You're all so biased! She wasn't 'so hated' by everyone for goodness sake....when she took power our country was in great decline...she transformed it - how quickly people forget! The single most important change was she got most (not all) to recognise that we couldn't look to the State or Government to rely on for our individual wants (not needs).... very much like the current prime minister and his ministers....
Edited by Mobson, Apr 8 2013, 01:59 PM.
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caissier
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Mobs, I think the charge against her was that she did unnecessary harm beyond the shake-up element of her policies and a lot of people suffered.

I remember one small instance where a small medical unit doing very valuable work was closed down, saving very little, because it was a state-run thing.
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Mobson
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Oh I'm sure there will be plenty of charges against her - and odious remarks from equally odious gentlemen...but the facts are she was the first female PM and the country did return her to that job for three consecutive terms; in the end she was not bought down by the people...but by her own party!
Edited by Mobson, Apr 8 2013, 02:04 PM.
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becky sharp
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madfor4
Apr 8 2013, 12:17 PM
I'll say nothing....
I'll say this,mads,as I have said on the thread that Mobs started.


My favourite moments of Margaret Thatcher's time in office ...oh, how I stood and applauded after he had finished....the end of The Iron Lady!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvyAMjGSoKQ

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Mobson
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and for sake of parity this was my reply.....

Yuk Geoffrey-the Witless-Howe - aka Baron Howe of Aberavon, odious welshman! In his early retirement, Howe took on a number of non-executive directorships in business and advisory posts in law and academia, including as international political adviser to the US law firm Jones Day, a director of Glaxo and J P Morgan...
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becky sharp
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Mobson
Apr 8 2013, 02:11 PM
and for sake of parity this was my reply.....

Yuk Geoffrey-the Witless-Howe - aka Baron Howe of Aberavon, odious welshman! In his early retirement, Howe took on a number of non-executive directorships in business and advisory posts in law and academia, including as international political adviser to the US law firm Jones Day, a director of Glaxo and J P Morgan...
To which I replied ....
Whatever else he did, I care not ... he was instrumental in getting rid of her <ok> <magic> <bubbly>

<wink>
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Mobson
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Only a Lady like Mrs T <bubbly> could command two separate threads on a forum with more posts already than some of the rest put together!!!! <applause>

Edited by Mobson, Apr 8 2013, 02:26 PM.
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madfor4

Mobson
Apr 8 2013, 02:24 PM
Only a Lady like Mrs T <bubbly> could command two separate threads on a forum with more posts already than some of the rest put together!!!! <applause>

I don't know; had the internet been around when Gengis Khan died there might have been the same action and, as for lauding her being the first female pm, she made sure no other female served in any of her cabinets...
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Mobson
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madfor4
Apr 8 2013, 02:37 PM
Mobson
Apr 8 2013, 02:24 PM
Only a Lady like Mrs T <bubbly> could command two separate threads on a forum with more posts already than some of the rest put together!!!! <applause>

I don't know; had the internet been around when Gengis Khan died there might have been the same action
<erm> I did say Lady ...mads
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madfor4

For many Thatcher's Britain was a land of mass unemployment, riots, financial collapse, greed, lies, privilege and cabinet criminality......Somehow that sounds familiar

Perhaps re-incarnation is true...
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Mobson
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And under Labour it was so much better <whistles> ...bankruptcy seemed so much more appealing ... <yikes>
Edited by Mobson, Apr 8 2013, 03:47 PM.
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madfor4

Mobson
Apr 8 2013, 03:46 PM
And under Labour it was so much better <whistles> ...bankruptcy seemed so much more appealing ... <yikes>
Certainly! 1997-2010 was far better than 2010-2013....
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Mobson
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Sky is trying to interview The Lord of Darkness who was saying that she was a huge electoral and political force during his time in politics and then he was lost in the ether....he's in New York at the moment... no doubt at someone's expense...
Edited by Mobson, Apr 8 2013, 03:56 PM.
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madfor4

I'm sure this won't be raised......

Last week Osborne was claiming that:........Amid criticisms that he is turning the clock back to the 1980s, the chancellor criticised the Thatcher government for the way it placed many unemployed people on disability benefits.....

"Because people on disability benefits don't get counted in unemployment figures that could embarrass politicians."It was quick-fix politics of the worst kind – and the people who lost out were you, hard-working taxpayers who had to pay for all this and those on disability benefits who could have worked but were denied the opportunity to do so."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/02/osborne-thatcher-legacy-disability-benefits


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Mobson
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Parliament is expected to be recalled later this week for MPs to pay tribute to Baroness Thatcher.

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Mobson
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David Miliband, Labour MP for South Shields, who recently announced he was to step down, tweeted how the former UK PM "proved that ideas and politics matter. She inspired me to join the Labour Party and many to join the Conservative Party. I wish her family the best."

Louise Mensch, ex-Conservative MP for Corby, now an author living in New York, tweets: Just realised I'm not listening to Fox, I'm listening to CNN. Doesn't matter, it's wall-to-wall #Thatcher on all channels in America. #proud
Edited by Mobson, Apr 8 2013, 05:04 PM.
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caissier
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madfor4
Apr 8 2013, 04:34 PM
I'm sure this won't be raised......

Last week Osborne was claiming that:........Amid criticisms that he is turning the clock back to the 1980s, the chancellor criticised the Thatcher government for the way it placed many unemployed people on disability benefits.....

"Because people on disability benefits don't get counted in unemployment figures that could embarrass politicians."It was quick-fix politics of the worst kind – and the people who lost out were you, hard-working taxpayers who had to pay for all this and those on disability benefits who could have worked but were denied the opportunity to do so."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/02/osborne-thatcher-legacy-disability-benefits


...... paid for by North Sea oil ...... :(
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madfor4

caissier
Apr 8 2013, 05:10 PM
madfor4
Apr 8 2013, 04:34 PM
I'm sure this won't be raised......

Last week Osborne was claiming that:........Amid criticisms that he is turning the clock back to the 1980s, the chancellor criticised the Thatcher government for the way it placed many unemployed people on disability benefits.....

"Because people on disability benefits don't get counted in unemployment figures that could embarrass politicians."It was quick-fix politics of the worst kind – and the people who lost out were you, hard-working taxpayers who had to pay for all this and those on disability benefits who could have worked but were denied the opportunity to do so."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/02/osborne-thatcher-legacy-disability-benefits


...... paid for by North Sea oil ...... :(
And cut-price sell offs of all our utilities.....

To quote Ken Livingstone...She created today's housing crisis. She created the banking crisis. And she created the benefits crisis. It was her government that started putting people on incapacity benefit rather than register them as unemployed because the Britain she inherited was broadly full employment. She decided when she wrote off our manufacturing industry, and freed up the financial sector, that she could live with two or three million unemployed, and the benefits bill, the legacy of that, we are struggling with today. In actual fact, every real problem we face today is the legacy of the fact that she was fundamentally wrong.
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waiting4atickle
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Beats blaming everything on the previous government, I guess.

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Mobson
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<thumbs down> Ken Livingstone is a newt
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Lurkalot

caissier
Apr 8 2013, 01:49 PM
Mobs, I think the charge against her was that she did unnecessary harm beyond the shake-up element of her policies and a lot of people suffered.

I remember one small instance where a small medical unit doing very valuable work was closed down, saving very little, because it was a state-run thing.
I agree with you cass, one can perhaps live with being unemployed but when playing with people's lives and I suffered for 4 years as regards a legal ananomly which was subsequenty declared as unfair under human rights and changed. She messed up 4 years of my life! <steam>
Edited by Lurkalot, Apr 8 2013, 07:50 PM.
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madfor4

Mobson
Apr 8 2013, 05:57 PM
<thumbs down> Ken Livingstone is a newt
But an accurate newt <ok>
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Norm Deplume
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For goodness sake, why don't some of you take your blinkers off. If Margaret Thatcher had not been where she was, when she was, the chances are, that this country would now be in the hands of the communist trade unions. They were already controlling the economy and successive Labour Governments prior to her shutting them up. It is not Thatcher that should be hated but the likes of Scargill and other T.U.bigwigs that were really to blame and if you were truthful to yourselves you know that I'm right.

I'm no intelectual, as many of you purport to be but neither am I a fool or stupid...OR BLIND. If you want to put the blame for the country being on its knees, then put it squarely and surely where it really belongs, on to the shoulders of the greedy power-mad Union Bosses of the time.
In my time on this planet there have been two exceedingly outstanding Prime Ministers and Margaret Thatcher was one of them, Churchill being the other.
Edited by Norm Deplume, Apr 8 2013, 09:23 PM.
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caissier
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But it was her vehemence, Norm .... the way she and Keith Joseph steered things to extremes, the almost violence of her attitudes. Something in line with the Butskellite axis could have achieved her aims ..... and in a democracy, fair enough. Drastic action, if it goes wrong, goes seriously wrong. Her free-market zealotry caused havoc in British industry when it wasn't necessary. I was no fan of Scargill or the bonkers-left of that time, which was self-defeating anyway. I feel she was powered by anger and crude gut-emotion rather than sensible impulses to serve the welfare of all by making things work.
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madfor4


.......................If Margaret Thatcher had not been where she was, when she was, the chances are, that this country would now be in the hands of the communist trade unions. They were already controlling the economy and successive Labour Governments prior to her shutting them up. It is not Thatcher that should be hated but the likes of Scargill and other T.U.bigwigs that were really to blame and if you were truthful to yourselves you know that I'm right.

If you want to put the blame for the country being on its knees, then put it squarely and surely where it really belongs, on to the shoulders of the greedy power-mad Union Bosses of the time.....................

As opposed to everything being in the hands of 'bankers' or foreign consortiums....

As for the country on its knees....It wasn't the unions; it was her darling "self regulating" Capitalists
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Lurkalot

madfor4
Apr 8 2013, 10:09 PM

.......................If Margaret Thatcher had not been where she was, when she was, the chances are, that this country would now be in the hands of the communist trade unions. They were already controlling the economy and successive Labour Governments prior to her shutting them up. It is not Thatcher that should be hated but the likes of Scargill and other T.U.bigwigs that were really to blame and if you were truthful to yourselves you know that I'm right.

If you want to put the blame for the country being on its knees, then put it squarely and surely where it really belongs, on to the shoulders of the greedy power-mad Union Bosses of the time.....................

As opposed to everything being in the hands of 'bankers' or foreign consortiums....

As for the country on its knees....It wasn't the unions; it was her darling "self regulating" Capitalists
we had the formation of the SDP - social democratic party in the early 80's and then they merged with the Liberals to what is now the Lib-dems and now they are infact part of the coalition so there is a legacy here. We also had New Labour which was to get away from the loony left.

We have always had 3 parties before the SDP came along. Nowadays we ofcourse have other parties as well.
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madfor4

Lurkalot
Apr 9 2013, 09:35 AM
madfor4
Apr 8 2013, 10:09 PM

.......................If Margaret Thatcher had not been where she was, when she was, the chances are, that this country would now be in the hands of the communist trade unions. They were already controlling the economy and successive Labour Governments prior to her shutting them up. It is not Thatcher that should be hated but the likes of Scargill and other T.U.bigwigs that were really to blame and if you were truthful to yourselves you know that I'm right.

If you want to put the blame for the country being on its knees, then put it squarely and surely where it really belongs, on to the shoulders of the greedy power-mad Union Bosses of the time.....................

As opposed to everything being in the hands of 'bankers' or foreign consortiums....

As for the country on its knees....It wasn't the unions; it was her darling "self regulating" Capitalists
we had the formation of the SDP - social democratic party in the early 80's and then they merged with the Liberals to what is now the Lib-dems and now they are infact part of the coalition so there is a legacy here. We also had New Labour which was to get away from the loony left.

We have always had 3 parties before the SDP came along. Nowadays we ofcourse have other parties as well.
Lurk, I didn't write the first two pargraphs (for some reason I couldn't post a quote)

As for all this guff about her......................."two exceedingly outstanding Prime Ministers and Margaret Thatcher was one of them, Churchill being the other"......
Compared to Atlee, who managed to create the welfare state and a brief nationalised resource network after the second world war had truly bled coffers dry, Thatcher doesn't even register.... .
Between the two I know which I see as an achievement worthy of remembrance.
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Lurkalot

How is one really judged the best PM? All I know is that "The last person to enter parliament with honest intentions was Guy Fawkes". <laugh>
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Hugh Jampton
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Mobson
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Ahhh handbagging! that's very good... <wink> Although she never used hers on any of those insidious men who surrounded her...tho' I bet she was tempted!
Edited by Mobson, Apr 10 2013, 09:48 AM.
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Lurkalot

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it seems people did finally vote with their feet with the historic landslide victory of labour in 1997. <dalek>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/2/newsid_2480000/2480505.stm
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madfor4

Well at least some people have the 'balls' not to get sucked into thise phoney 'Thatcher love-in.................The Hillsborough Family Support Group (HFSG) has described calls for a minute’s silence in honour of Baroness Thatcher before this weekend’s Premier League fixtures as a “disgrace and an insult”.

Reading will hold a minute’s silence solely for the Hillsborough victims before their home game against Liverpool on Saturday to mark the 24th anniversary of the tragedy. However, the tribute has been overshadowed after Sir John Madjeski, their chairman, said that Thatcher should also be honoured.

Margaret Aspinall, the chair of the HFSG, claimed such a tribute to the former Prime Minister would be “a disgrace and an insult to all fans”, a view that is known to be shared by the Hillsborough Justice Campaign (HJC).

HFSG maintains that the minute’s silence before Saturday’s match is a tribute to the 96 Liverpool victims who lost their lives in the Hillsborough disaster, and not the former Prime Minister. If there is any indication that this is not the case they will make further comment then.

The Hillsborough families and their supporters have long campaigned for the exact details of Thatcher’s role in the aftermath of the disaster and the subsequent cover up to be revealed. On Monday, the anniversary of the tragedy, will be marked with a memorial service at Anfield.

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Lurkalot

There were clearly parties held in Liverpool and other places following the annoucement of her death.

There was also the toxteth riots in 1981 ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-16355281
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Lurkalot

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22066540

Oh dear, a popular PM indeed! <devi>;;
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Lurkalot

Quote:
 
Detectives are scouring internet chatrooms and social media networks for any hint of planned demonstrations and trying to identify individuals who may pose a threat.

In the past police have made pre-emptive arrests, but sources suggest that is unlikely unless there is strong evidence of crimes about to be committed.

A source said: "Someone simply talking about a desire to cause trouble would not be enough to justify an arrest."

The Fixated Threat Assessment Centre (FTAC), a small group of police and psychiatrists, is monitoring known Thatcher obsessives.


I wonder if they will be looking here? <laugh>
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Norm Deplume
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Love her or hate her, she still did far more for the good of this country than any other Prime Minister has ever done. It is very sad about the terrible loss of life at Hillsborough, but the original tragedy was the fault of otheres...mainly the Police. When you criticise Maggie Thatcher on this issue, think of the HUNDREDS of British servicemen's lives that have been lost and the THOUSANDS of civilians who have also lost their lives in Iraq because that bloody butcher Blair caused the Phoney War there.
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caissier
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Lurkalot
Apr 10 2013, 08:46 PM
Quote:
 
Detectives are scouring internet chatrooms and social media networks for any hint of planned demonstrations and trying to identify individuals who may pose a threat.

In the past police have made pre-emptive arrests, but sources suggest that is unlikely unless there is strong evidence of crimes about to be committed.

A source said: "Someone simply talking about a desire to cause trouble would not be enough to justify an arrest."

The Fixated Threat Assessment Centre (FTAC), a small group of police and psychiatrists, is monitoring known Thatcher obsessives.


I wonder if they will be looking here? <laugh>
Look out Mads ...... they'll be trying to extradite you.

Lurkalot ..... get out of the house NOW !!!

HMJ is hiding in a very realistic papier-mache scenery tree ............
Edited by caissier, Apr 10 2013, 11:30 PM.
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The_Bush_Doctor
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I'm afraid I have far too many memories of Mrs Thatcher to be very polite about her.

Speaking ill of the dead? I dont normally but in her case I probably could make an exception. However, I wont.

So instead I'll just speak ill of the living;

I despise The BBC, the Daily Wail, the Sun and the right wing media who are trying to re-write history. <guillotine>

They go on about Gordon Brown selling all the gold whilst conveniently ignoring the fact that Thatcher flogged everything else.

Her biggest sin, in my book at any rate, was the selling of council houses (Labour's sin was not replacing them; mind you the Tories would have sold them this time around).

We have a situation where council rent used to be about £80/ week but now it is averaging at £350/week in London, then you wonder why the benefit bill is so large. Loud and clear, the roots of the housing benefit bill is in her policies of selling off council houses. I could go on about the pain and decimation she inflicted upon many communities up and down the land.............................. but what's the point.

Alas, speaking ill of the dead; I cant help it. I can only agree with the person who daubed the slogan "Iron Lady?? May she rust in hell" <ok>

I'll say no more. <beer>
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Lurkalot

caissier
Apr 10 2013, 11:24 PM
Look out Mads ...... they'll be trying to extradite you.

Lurkalot ..... get out of the house NOW !!!

HMJ is hiding in a very realistic papier-mache scenery tree ............
<laugh> <laugh> <laugh>
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madfor4

Norm Deplume
Apr 10 2013, 09:17 PM
Love her or hate her, she still did far more for the good of this country than any other Prime Minister has ever done. It is very sad about the terrible loss of life at Hillsborough, but the original tragedy was the fault of otheres...mainly the Police. When you criticise Maggie Thatcher on this issue, think of the HUNDREDS of British servicemen's lives that have been lost and the THOUSANDS of civilians who have also lost their lives in Iraq because that bloody butcher Blair caused the Phoney War there.
More re-writing history....

Blair is blamed for Iraq (in which 179 British lives were lost) and Thatcher is lauded for the Falklands (in which 258 British lives were lost)....

As for the Falklands being a 'just' war; contrast her handling of the situation when Argentinians landed on South Georgia with how Callahan, in 1977, handled the Argentinian landings on the South Sandwich Isles....Still, Thatcher with a 23% approval rating, needed a war and made sure she got it.....

If there's one thing worse than the 'real' Thatcher legacy it's the 'imagined' greatness of that woman...
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Mobson
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So if you're doing bodycounts, its not relevant to add to Blair's tally the thousands of civilians lost as a result of his actions....

In a report published March 2013 entitled "Civilian Death and Injury in the Iraq War 2003-2013" it summaries..."a minimum of 134,000 civilians have been killed by war's violence since 2003 in Iraq. But many deaths were unreported or unrecorded thus this number, based on tallies of government and press reports, is an undercount.

If a full recording of Iraqi violent deaths due to war were to be made, the toll could be twice as high, according to Body Count (IBC), the one organisation that has attempted to document all the violent deaths in Iraq that have resulted from the initiation of the war ten years ago. Thus, the total of violent death due to war may be 250,000 or more people."

For the record, 3 civilians (Falkland Islanders) died in the conflict on the Falkland Islands....
Edited by Mobson, Apr 11 2013, 09:55 AM.
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madfor4

Mobson
Apr 11 2013, 09:47 AM
So if you're doing bodycounts, its not relevant to add to Blair's tally the thousands of civilians lost as a result of his actions....

In a report published March 2013 entitled "Civilian Death and Injury in the Iraq War 2003-2013" it summaries..."a minimum of 134,000 civilians have been killed by war's violence since 2003 in Iraq. But many deaths were unreported or unrecorded thus this number, based on tallies of government and press reports, is an undercount.

If a full recording of Iraqi violent deaths due to war were to be made, the toll could be twice as high, according to Body Count (IBC), the one organisation that has attempted to document all the violent deaths in Iraq that have resulted from the initiation of the war ten years ago. Thus, the total of violent death due to war may be 250,000 or more people."

For the record, 3 civilians (Falkland Islanders) died in the conflict on the Falkland Islands....
Yet another straw man.....Do you, for one moment believe, that if Mrs Thatcher was in power, instead of Blair, the Iraq invasion .would not have happened?....This was the woman who allowed Reagan to launch an illegal assasination attempt, from the UK, against Ghadaffi which was vehemently opposed by other European allies, who pointed out that it would contravene international law.

What is your opinion on how Callahan and Thatcher handled their paticular 'Falkland's incident'?
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Mobson
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Mads, as much as I would love to discuss these past events but actually I wouldn't - I haven't time as I have American houseguests, who popped to the Cotswolds yesterday and will be returning later today...they (& I) are more concerned about North Korea at the moment! The G8 Summit which is going on down the road has Korea high on the agenda, as it does Syria, and foreign ministers are to prepare statements later....
Edited by Mobson, Apr 11 2013, 12:24 PM.
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Lurkalot

Belgrano. 323 people died, mainly young sea cadets, when #Thatcher gave the order to sink the ship which was trying to flee.
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Norm Deplume
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Lurkie,
The Argies started it mate, Maggie didn't!

For cry sake, don't blame her for this.
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Lurkalot

Normie, she ordered the sinking! <dalek>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aZdAyHVjzQ
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Lurkalot

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/ding-dong-the-witch-is-dead-closer-to-number-one-spot-as-it-reaches-top-five-following-margaret-thatchers-death-8566042.html

'Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead' closer to number one spot as it reaches top five following Margaret Thatcher's death <devi>;;

<laugh>
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Schrodinger's Cat
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I'd dig out my 7" of The Beat's Stand Down Margaret (Dub) but I haven't got a turntable to play it on :(

However, it's available on YouTube so I've been able to listen to it anyway.
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caissier
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Maggie withdrew HMS Endurance ..... to save a few bob ..... (just etc etc )

Anyway ......................

"The sheer scale of the funeral was made clear on Thursday when No 10 announced that world leaders, including all surviving US presidents, would be invited. A dress code, including "Full Day Ceremonial without swords" and "Morning Dress (Black Waistcoat and Black Tie) / dark suit", will be included in the invitations.

The guest list has been drawn up Thatcher's friends and representatives in conjunction with the government. All former members of her cabinets will be invited. This means that Lord Heseltine, whose challenge to Thatcher ended her premiership, will have to decide whether to go. He missed the Lords debate on Wednesday in which tributes were paid.

Lord Kinnock, the former Labour leader defeated by Thatcher in 1987, is not attending. He has not been invited because he is attending a funeral in Wales. But the Top Gear presenter Jeremy Clarkson will attend."

I don't think it would be inappropriate for her coffin to be carried on a proper Juggernaunt .......

Posted Image
Edited by caissier, Apr 12 2013, 12:40 AM.
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madfor4

caissier
Apr 12 2013, 12:33 AM
.........................Maggie withdrew HMS Endurance ..... to save a few bob ..... (just etc etc )..........



Cass, They hadn't actually withdrawn the vessel but had announced to the world, despite repeated warnings by Royal Navy captain Nicholas Barker and others, that the ship would be withdrawn in1982....

The, then, captain of Endurance from 1980, Barker launched a relentless campaign against the decision of the then Defence Secretary, John Nott, to scrap Endurance with other vessels in the 1981 defence cuts. Barker jeopardised his own outstanding career by challenging senior admirals, officials, ministers and even Margaret Thatcher, the Prime Minister, herself. He argued strenuously for retention of Britain's military presence in the Falklands and the Antarctic, emphasising its potential of immense mineral wealth. Furthermore, scrapping Endurance, he warned, would lead Argentina to believe that Britain no longer cared about the Falklands and Antarctic and would give the green light for Argentine aggression.

On the invasion he wrote in his diary, "This is the worst day of my life. Why had the Ministry of Defence not listened to my warnings? Why hadn't the Government repeated the strategy of 1977 and sent a small deterrent force to the South Atlantic. It had worked then. Why not now?"

Barker regarded the conflict as avoidable, and the Franks Inquiry, published in January 1983, clearing the Thatcher Government of negligence, as a "whitewash" ......As one of the youngest captains in the Royal Navy, he could reasonably have been expected to be promoted admiral in normal circumstances - but the South Atlantic in 1982 could in no way be regarded as normal circumstances. Barker's forthright views did not endear him to those in power, all the less as he was proved right by history.

Unsurprisingly, he never made admiral and he died in Newcastle-upon-Tyne 7 April 1997.


I look forward to seeing a rebuttal of these points, from her admirers, but I won't hold my breath...
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Mobson
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madfor4
Apr 8 2013, 12:17 PM
I'll say nothing....
<erm>
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Lurkalot

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Lurkalot

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Lurkalot

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madfor4

Lurkalot
Apr 12 2013, 01:56 PM
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You mustn't put inconvenient (or any) facts here 'Lurk'. After all it's just 'vitriol' against St. Marge's <devi>;; memory....

Having listened to the mealy mouthed defence by the BBC for not playing 'that song' it shows that her tentacles still reach into the organisation she fought so hard to privatise...
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Lurkalot

I note what you say mads! <ok> Fortunately there are two threads and it's naturally happened. Even I started a thread but it was simply not realising one was started already. lol Anyway, it's alway good to have different stance from the norm! <wink>

This is what they are saying in The Archers Board ..

http://www.paranormal.org.uk/mustardland/viewtopic.php?t=17346


As regards the wizard of oz song, the bbc decision is controversial and it makes 'em no better than the murdoch empire. BBC even put the points of view board on moderation after the annoucement of her death. st margaret may be someone's mother but she chose to run this country ...

I'll be hiding in a closed down pit in yorkshire, before the feds get me! <laugh> Mind you, perhaps a grave is already dug up for her there. lol <devi>;; <devi>;; <devi>;;
Edited by Lurkalot, Apr 12 2013, 07:09 PM.
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caissier
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This is a Two Thread story!

The BEEB is getting it in the neck both ways ...... for disgracefully drawing attention to the protests, parties and Ding Dong and for disgracefully saying it might not play it on whatever is the present-day equivalent of Pick of the Pops.

The DM IS predictably not missing a chance for some BBC bashing. It is running a story about a teacher - that's TEACHER - who is co-ordinating. It is quick to report that she has had breast-mopdification on the NHS - that's THE NHS btw.
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Hugh Jampton
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She wasn't perfect. Who is? [Except happen me]

The fact remains that when she became PM, the unions were taking complete control and it had to be stopped.

She stopped it. Thank God.
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Lurkalot

The BBC (Bullied By Conservatives) who "were forced" to invite Nick Griffin on Question Time in the interests of free speech! <erm>

Ah where is Lord Patten these days!
Edited by Lurkalot, Apr 12 2013, 08:10 PM.
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Lurkalot

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/12/thatcher-britain

The Thatcher effect: what changed and what stayed the same ...
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Mobson
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Hugh Jampton
Apr 12 2013, 07:53 PM
She wasn't perfect. Who is? [Except happen me]

The fact remains that when she became PM, the unions were taking complete control and it had to be stopped.

She stopped it. Thank God.
<star> "She wasn't perfect. Who is? [Except happen me]".....and Me <laugh>
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Hugh Jampton
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That's evident from your photos, Mobs ;)
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tafkaj

madfor4
Apr 8 2013, 09:09 PM
Mobson
Apr 8 2013, 05:57 PM
<thumbs down> Ken Livingstone is a newt
But an accurate newt <ok>
For accurate read tendentious.
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Mobson
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<ok>
Thesaurus
Adj.1.tendentious - having or marked by a strong tendency especially a controversial one; "a tendentious account of recent elections"; "distinguishing between verifiable fact and tendentious assertion"
partisan, partizan - devoted to a cause or party...

Devoted to himself - always - thank god London has seen the back of him - he'll never run for Mayor again :)
Edited by Mobson, Apr 13 2013, 11:07 AM.
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tafkaj

The_Bush_Doctor
Apr 10 2013, 11:42 PM
I'm afraid I have far too many memories of Mrs Thatcher to be very polite about her.

Speaking ill of the dead? I dont normally but in her case I probably could make an exception. However, I wont.

So instead I'll just speak ill of the living;

I despise The BBC, the Daily Wail, the Sun and the right wing media who are trying to re-write history. <guillotine>

They go on about Gordon Brown selling all the gold whilst conveniently ignoring the fact that Thatcher flogged everything else.

Her biggest sin, in my book at any rate, was the selling of council houses (Labour's sin was not replacing them; mind you the Tories would have sold them this time around).

We have a situation where council rent used to be about £80/ week but now it is averaging at £350/week in London, then you wonder why the benefit bill is so large. Loud and clear, the roots of the housing benefit bill is in her policies of selling off council houses. I could go on about the pain and decimation she inflicted upon many communities up and down the land.............................. but what's the point.

Alas, speaking ill of the dead; I cant help it. I can only agree with the person who daubed the slogan "Iron Lady?? May she rust in hell" <ok>

I'll say no more. <beer>
Hmm ...

All that conveniently ignores inflation and rising costs generally, not to mention increases in revenues to government coffers over the same period ... And much more ... For example, when were average London rents £80pw and how much were they in 1997?

I too could go on and on, but Daniel Finkelstein had a brilliant article in The Times last week that mined the roots of the so-called Thatcher revolution and revealed them to have been such that there was virtually no other way out for Britain to remain a viable and independent nation - so I won't.

While I wouldn't necessarily argue against your assertion that certain papers and broadcasters might be rewriting history (though the BBC would no doubt argue that it is covering all views, quite reasonably, I feel), the fact is that Thatcher's political opponents have been systematically, if probably unconsciously (and, therefore, puerilely), engaged in precisely such tendentiousness ...

But I'm no Thatcher apologist.
Edited by tafkaj, Apr 13 2013, 11:39 AM.
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Mobson
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<wink> Tendentious/ness: seems to be your word of the week(end)
Edited by Mobson, Apr 13 2013, 12:31 PM.
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Lurkalot

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<cool> <cool> <cool>
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Lurkalot

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Norm Deplume
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Why does tafkaj insist on using words few people are aware of? I think he is just trying to be clever.
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Mobson
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<laugh> ... And why does Lurkalot put such large pictures in his posts - Perhaps he thinks we have poor eyesight or need to visit Specsavers <wink>
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Hugh Jampton
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Sorry folks. This one's on the large side as well. I've managed to shrink it a bit.

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Oops. No I haven't :'(
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Mobson
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Oh dear et tu Hugh..... :huh:
Edited by Mobson, Apr 13 2013, 05:20 PM.
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Hugh Jampton
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Yes. Sorry.

But I would recommend Glasses Direct and not Specsavers
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Mobson
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I go to Paris M :)
Edited by Mobson, Apr 14 2013, 07:38 AM.
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Caro

What words did Tafkaj use that people wouldn't know? It all seemed perfectly clear, not to say objective, to me.
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Lurkalot

Mobson
Apr 13 2013, 04:22 PM
<laugh> ... And why does Lurkalot put such large pictures in his posts - Perhaps he thinks we have poor eyesight or need to visit Specsavers <wink>
nah, cus a picture can say a thousand words and i'd rather enjoy a waffle than waffle too much ... <laugh>

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Edited by Lurkalot, Apr 13 2013, 09:50 PM.
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Norm Deplume
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Caro,
When did you last use any of the following in your daily chats to the neighbours? (and these are just a few of his more recent attempts at educating us)


Arquebuses
Pusilonimous
Yakatermburg
Coleoptera
Proctal
Anemophilous
Edited by Norm Deplume, Apr 14 2013, 03:31 PM.
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Caro

But they weren't used in Tafkaj's posts above - some at least were used in the Words within a Word thread where they are perfectly suitable. Anyway pusillanimous is quite an ordinary word, and Yekaterinburg is a placename. It's good to have new vocabulary put in front of you, I think. Proctal has the sound of a word I would like to use, but the meaning perhaps limits its use a little for someone like me.
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Norm Deplume
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You are taking the Mickey Caro, aren't you?
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dai Cottomy
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Caro
Apr 15 2013, 12:35 AM
But they weren't used in Tafkaj's posts above - some at least were used in the Words within a Word thread where they are perfectly suitable. Anyway pusillanimous is quite an ordinary word, and Yekaterinburg is a placename. It's good to have new vocabulary put in front of you, I think. Proctal has the sound of a word I would like to use, but the meaning perhaps limits its use a little for someone like me.
I quite agree, Caro. There is nothing wrong with the use of arcane verbiage in a word game.

I'm sure that you will have gathered that proctal is a word best avoided at the breakfast table.
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Lurkalot

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22157022

Big Ben to be silent for Baroness Thatcher's funeral ...

oh well, not ding dong for her then <laugh>
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Mobson
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"Big Ben to be silent for Baroness Thatcher's funeral" - This is worrying news indeed - how will I know when Elevenses is! <cuppa>
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Lurkalot

Mobson
Apr 15 2013, 05:38 PM
"Big Ben to be silent for Baroness Thatcher's funeral" - This is worrying news indeed - how will I know when Elevenses is! <cuppa>
.. and i thought you'd want to show some respect for the dead! <laugh>

I bet it's put on silence to avoid confusion with some of the likely noise from the protests on the day ... <laugh>
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Mobson
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What makes you think I don't! I haven't decided if I will pop down to Traf Sq or somewhere more selective on the route to see her pass or watch from the comfort of my own sofa, in which case elevenses will be served... <cuppa>
Edited by Mobson, Apr 15 2013, 06:26 PM.
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Lurkalot

Anyway, i'll show my respect by listening to the silence of the ding dongs (I think)! :D
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rumbaba
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There was Methodism in the madness

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/9992424/Margaret-Thatcher-her-unswerving-faith-shaped-by-her-father.html
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caissier
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That's a very good assessment of Maggie, rum. It is interesting about the split in Methodism in the 1920s.

I thought .... "she did not lost lose the trappings of Methodism: as party leader, conferences took on the feel of a religious rally. “The Old Testament prophets did not say, 'Brothers, I want a consensus,’” she proclaimed. “They said, 'This is my faith. This is what I passionately believe. If you believe it, too, then come with me.’”

Thatcherism always owed more to Methodism than it ever did to monetarism. This was the real source of Mrs Thatcher’s “conviction politics”. Thatcherism centred on a charismatic leader who cultivated a religious aura, was promoted like a religion, had notable converts like a religion, was rejected like a religion, and would cause a sharp divide within the nation like that of a religious war from centuries past."

....... was illuminating.

Also ..... "In 1988, she invited a group of Anglican bishops for a meeting at Chequers and delivered a full sermon on the doctrine of God-given free will. Midway through, the mild-mannered Bishop of Chester piped up. “I’m afraid you misunderstand, Prime Minister,” he said “Christianity is not about freedom, it is about love.” The intervention barely interrupted her flow.

Where critics go wrong with Thatcherism is to assume that there was no moral thinking behind the economics. Where admirers go wrong is to appreciate the moral underpinnings of Thatcherism without admitting that these often conflicted with its economic aims. "

Edited by caissier, Apr 17 2013, 12:24 PM.
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becky sharp
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rumbaba
Apr 17 2013, 08:11 AM
rum....Hadn't noticed before but looking just now the woman in the middle of your avatar picture looks a little like Maggie... <yikes>

On Twitter from Kevin McGuire

"If Mrs Thatcher made Britain so great why do her kids and grandkids all live abroad?"
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madfor4

becky sharp
Apr 17 2013, 02:11 PM


"If Mrs Thatcher made Britain so great why do her kids and grandkids all live abroad?"
Mark was 'asked to leave' and Carol lives with her Swiss boyfriend for most of the year...Interesting that she does 3rd rate 'celeb' shows...

.... In Australia one of her highlights in the show was urinating on the ground..... (She probably got that from her mum who urinated on most of us <whistles> )
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becky sharp
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madfor4
Apr 17 2013, 02:25 PM
Mark was 'asked to leave'
Do tell more,mads
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caissier
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I don't mind Carol, despite her galumphing 'golliwog' remark. She has a sense of humour and is loyal to her mum. She was having trouble with her hat at the funeral. She reminds me of Miranda Hart a bit.
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becky sharp
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caissier
Apr 17 2013, 02:30 PM
I don't mind Carol, despite her galumphing 'golliwog' remark. She has a sense of humour and is loyal to her mum. She was having trouble with her hat at the funeral. She reminds me of Miranda Hart a bit.
I actually quite took to her on the jungle programme ..I think a lot of people did.
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rumbaba
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becky sharp
Apr 17 2013, 02:11 PM
rumbaba
Apr 17 2013, 08:11 AM
rum....Hadn't noticed before but looking just now the woman in the middle of your avatar picture looks a little like Maggie... <yikes>
That's a wee bit below the belt Becky!

The photo is of Scotland's first (and possibly only) TV chef, Eric Milligan, who was mates with Chic Murray and my friend Steve's dad. Eric had a restaurant/pub in Cowdenbeath and they were all terrible men for the drink. Dunno who the woman is (but I know who it isn't) or the wee boy.
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