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A crime to be homeless
Topic Started: Oct 1 2013, 03:47 PM (2,637 Views)
rumbaba
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24347061

I'm disgusted with Orban. He has systematically dismantled the constitution, controlled the media, ignored the EU and generally behaved like an old-style communist leader in Hungary and now he is making homelessness a crime because it looks bad.
Edited by rumbaba, Oct 1 2013, 03:48 PM.
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Norm Deplume
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I wish that the authorities would do that in this country especially with the 'Roma' lot who think that it is OK for them to deface our towns and cities by setting-up camp and sleeping wherever it suits them...in and around Hyde Park in London comes to mind.
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Mobson
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The camp city dwellers en-masse at Marble Arch are indeed an eyesore and seem to be difficult for the local authority to move in on; but individual street sleepers are too. In Jermyn Street for instance, there are four or five favourite spots where they bed down for the night, and not only the night...often they continue to lay there during the day, usually covered up in a sleeping bag or a dirty blanket or flat cardboard, completely impervious to what's going on around them. Some set up camp and go off during the day leaving their detritus for use when they return or for others to clean up. It is a sad sight to see...
Edited by Mobson, Oct 2 2013, 10:17 PM.
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rumbaba
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I'm aghast, I regret posting this here :(
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Mobson
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You certainly would be aghast if a band of travellers camped opposite you at the local garden centre Rum!

Ok maybe the Hungarian government's legislation seems heartless and cruel, but there are a people who think they can bump the system by living rough on the streets, urinating, defecating, and doing as they please without paying a single penny to contribute to society, whilst for instance in my borough, Westminster City Council, have to bring in extra cleaning contractors, paid for by the local council tax-paying residents who also have to suffer the stink and detritus of those living rough...is that fair? I'll answer it - no it is not!

The cheekiest I've seen recently were the couple who decided to make an improv double bed complete with blankets and pillows outside an art gallery in Duke Street, St. James's (that's the correct title of the road - I'm not being posh!) they were completely out of it and slept there for a couple of days before being moved on...
Edited by Mobson, Oct 4 2013, 12:17 PM.
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Norm Deplume
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Not John Bly's place Mobsy?

We had a long weekend in the Penthouse Suite of what was then called, The Cavendish Hotel, about 15/20 years ago. Is it still called that?
Edited by Norm Deplume, Oct 4 2013, 04:34 PM.
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Mobson
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JB's down the King's Road now Norm....

Ahhh, the Cavendish Hotel :wub: The 'new' Cavendish hotel, as the current building looks now, had only recently been completed (opened July 1966) when I came to live nearby in January 1967...I've since spent many a fond evening in the Sub-Rosa bar, which has just undergone a smart make-over, renamed The Rosa Lewis Bar; also had some great early morning breakfasts there after a night out on the town! Their fry-ups were legendary...have only occasionally ate there in the evening, when the guest of guests staying there, as there are more exciting places to eat dinner in the west end.

It took a deep dive a few years back when under the management of Trust House Forte hotels...in fact it was pretty abysmal, even the Cavendish name disappeared under the THT bright turquoise livery although they couldn't get it out of the stone wall! Thankfully Forte’s ownership came to an abrupt end in January 1996, following the company’s falling to a hostile £3.9 billion acquisition bid by Granada and in May 2000 it was transferred to the De Vere Group who bought it for £60million. In 2006, it was acquired by the Alternative Hotel Group (AHG) as part of their £1billion takeover of De Vere. They sold it to the owners of the Telegraph Group and the nearby Ritz Hotel in Piccadilly, and I'm glad to tell you that it has had a substantial make-over, which is still on-going...The Cavendish Hotel has never looked so smart!

http://www.thecavendish-london.co.uk/

Edited by Mobson, Oct 5 2013, 12:33 PM.
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Norm Deplume
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I must admit, when we stayed there it was still under the control of THF. The Penthouse Suite, although still lavish and with views across London to die for, was a bit past its use-by date.
We bought our weekend at a Charity Auction donated by one of the Cavendish top managers....it cost far more than if we had made a straight booking with the hotel.
The way that you make it sound, it may be worth another visit but it will have to go on hold until my 2nd mortgage is cleared!
Edited by Norm Deplume, Oct 5 2013, 01:15 PM.
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Mobson
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I'll keep an eye open for offers...they're doing a Winter Break Special Rate from £179 inc breakfast & vat...based on a classic double room from 15th December to 31st March 2014...get that lottery ticket Norm!

Edited by Mobson, Oct 8 2013, 09:46 AM.
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Rikiiboy
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Hello rumbaba,current estimates put the UK down as having about one million homeless people here at present.Whether they are in cardboard city,on park benches,living in squats,shop door ways or even sleeping in dust bins,it's obviously a myth here that things are getting better.
Cameron's lot are now on about cutting the under twenty fives benefits altogether, that action alone will cause friction in many families and ultimately leads to more drug and alcohol addiction which leads to even more homelessness.
What our youngsters here need is jobs not more foriegn mates or promises.Education standards are falling here not from lack of funds but from everything that has turned this once great nation into a country where both parents feel they are forced to work full time to feed their egos and not their kids or bellies.
More male teachers back in our classrooms and a massive campaigne to stop the single mother mentallity because a lot of those kids will end up homeless too,and there is no excuse for babies having babies anymore.
We see now all these child abuse cases coming and going in the media today but our social service institutions have no compassion whatsoever when they are booting out their own wards at ages far to young to cope with the modern streets that they are booting them out onto.
The biggest mistake here was the generalised myth of care in the community,there's no longer a community here and they certainly don't care.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/and-finally/36-dont-know-their-neighbours-29656859.html
Edited by Rikiiboy, Oct 15 2013, 10:05 AM.
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Mobson
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Whatever the circumstances I still can't get over the sight of someone, anyone, begging on the streets or lying overnight under cardboard...I do feel compelled to help as much as I can, ignoring those thoughts in my head of 'don't give money it'll only be spent it on booze or drugs'...but it is money they need, because when I have tried to give food and clothing, although some will take these, they do look pretty dismayed or disappointed at the offer... still there is only so much one person can do...and only today seeing gangs of homeless people congregating at Marble Arch, hoping for a better life, is a very depressing sight. This is, and has always been, a universal problem...look at the tragedy of another boatload of refugees capsizing off the island of Sicily last week enroute to what? a better life, they hoped...

Back in Britain, it's all very well saying what our youngsters need are jobs but when industry and commerce are ailing and finding it difficult to exist, it's not as easy task and despite government assistance in trade deals and grants it seems to be falling short.

I applaud the present government's policy, or come to that any government in office, of trying to change certain things connected with the welfare state...not all, but certainly this 'something for nothing' culture that is prevalent everywhere. I've heard several interviews in the past week with young people on this very subject; there was a young man from Cheshire who said in his area there were plenty of jobs - it's just that no-one wants to do them...so that's another problem - being picky about what to do to earn a living. When I left college, there was no question of not working. Going or being on the dole was looked down on - it just wasn't an option, nor was being an unmarried single mother|!

When I go to some areas in Kent for example, there is a definite pattern amongst the young to leave school, get pregnant, with or without a partner, usually the latter, and then feed themselves and their brood off the State. I am appalled, on recent visits to their local hospitals with my elderly father, at the number of what look like 12 year olds, heavily pregnant with maybe their first, but usually their second or third child in tow.

What are the solutions to all these problems that Rikiiboy has written about? I'm sure I don't have the answer...each successive government tries to give and take fairly in our society, endeavouring to uphold the values and social graces we're supposed to abide by...the probability of each and every individual person trying to do that just isn't viable anymore...




Edited by Mobson, Oct 16 2013, 04:47 PM.
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Rikiiboy
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Hi Mobson,the facts of life are that London IMHO has not really had a recession there.
While most of the North has had to suffer almost a total meltdown of virtually all it's manufacturing and mining industries.
I would go as far as to suggest that even parliament itself should be moved totally away from it's london base and placed in the real Britain up North.
Successful goverments here have been manipulating our unemployment figures for years,I reckon it's not 2.5 million unemployed here but nearly 4million.
It's alright telling people to get on their bikes to find work but hundreds of people are now chasing a single vacancy.
unemployed people here are being regarded like lepers in our modern society,we all knew years ago here that automation would eventually take away masses of manual jobs,so...we now need to stop all immigration here now!
People in work should be let go about every five years or so,so that there are actually job for the unemployed to realistically apply for.Plus if everyone got a real taste of unemployment once in a while they might just get a taste of the nasty attitude that others here seem to think they've the rights to hold.
I think people in this country are so deluded that they think they're middle and not working class,so...if I might remind them that:all people who work for a living are working class and that most honest family people here in Britain today are only one pay packet away from poverty.
As for the young and homeless,their future's here is looking very sad and bleak,expect the suicides to those age brackets to escalate to an even greater figure that the high rate it already is......(sorry for ranting Mobs.R.)
Edited by Rikiiboy, Oct 16 2013, 04:14 PM.
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Mobson
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You're not ranting Rikiiboy...in fact just the opposite! You're right of course, I have no idea what it is like in the 'North' not really...well not at all. So it's very interesting (and depressing actually) to hear what you have to say.

I can comment on immigration though - as London is affected by that as anywhere else. I have written here before about being the only white person on a bus! but that of course bears no reflection on immigration! I just reference it because it's true! I am sure there any many illegals floating around London but no-one seems to want to be responsible for taking the decision to act swiftly to deport them back to their homeland...I even feel guilty as I write this for thinking such things...but something has to be done pdq.
Edited by Mobson, Oct 16 2013, 05:47 PM.
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Mobson
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Rikiiboy
Oct 16 2013, 04:11 PM
Successful goverments here have been manipulating our unemployment figures for years,I reckon it's not 2.5 million unemployed here but nearly 4million.
I am listening to the six o'clock news on Radio 4 where the latest figure is a record high for the number of people in work, both full-time and part-time, reached a record high of 29.87 million in the quarter, up 155,000.

According to the Office for National Statistics (ONS) also said the number of people claiming Jobseeker's Allowance last month fell by 41,700 to 1.35 million.
Edited by Mobson, Oct 16 2013, 05:12 PM.
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Rikiiboy
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Hi Mobson,our government doesn't even know how many people are actually in this country at anytime.
Lots of people are taken off the unemployment figures to manipulate the Stats.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/02/13/real-unemployment-jobless-figures-tuc_n_1274313.html
I am unemployed but not claiming benefits,there are many like me.
What about all the self employed and can you really class part time and those who only can get two hours cleaning work a day as employed?
Thousands today are forced to work part time or for well below the minimum wage just to enable them to claim job seekers allowance.
Myself BTW I am unfit for work at present because my leg is injured.

This is how it starts Mobs. http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/hundreds-of-tube-ticket-offices-to-shut-as-machines-replace-staff-8883895.html

The machines aren't particularly cheaper than humans but they don't want a pension?
Edited by Rikiiboy, Oct 16 2013, 07:25 PM.
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rumbaba
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The problem with unemployment 'coming down' is two-fold: it isn't really, there is a lot of under-employment - I would like to see it measured in hours under 35 hours for people who want to be be full time employed but aren't. There are also the regional variations that averages mask, as Rikii mentioned. The second problem is that, even if you are fully employed, it isn't enough to live on for a lot of people, even with two wages because the firms, that we are all supposed to be so grateful to for providing employement, don't pay people a living wage. Wages are shrinking in real (and nominal) terms as the cost of living increases; rents, food, transport, gas, electricity, all well above the average inflation rate. We have a government patting itself on the back for 'putting the economy back on track' and they appear to be blind to sacrifices that ordinary people are having to make. Look at the stats for food banks, employed people are going there and some people are so poor they are returning food they can't afford to heat up. It's a disaster, not waiting to happen, but happening.
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rumbaba
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I'm really sorry to hear that you aren't able to work because of your injury Rikii. You should find out if you are entitled to anything and claim it while you can, I'm certain you are more than entitled to whatever help you can get.
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Rikiiboy
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Hello rumbaba,it's very strange the way our welfare system works here.I am waiting for an operation for a meniscal tear and loose cartlage on my left knee,unfortunately for me I'd been self employed and had gone on someones books full time and injured my leg at work,but as a fair kind of guy I felt it would be unfair on my employer to stay on his books with an injury I knew was no five minute affair.So...because I was in a four man team I knew he'd need a replacement,so I jacked in,end off.
Anyway when I got made redundant about four years ago me and my non working wife only qualified for £62.50p a week jobseekers allowance because although all my workmates got their full allowances I failed to qualify because I had to much saved in the bank.
Me and the wife hadn't had a holiday for over thirty years and as the sole bread winner I worked twelve hours a day seven days a week to pay the mortgage and feed my children,we had my mom in law to see through her Parkinson's disease and my eldest son is disabled (he's moved away now) but we didn't ask for nowt as we never really needed it,like now I suppose my 65th BD is only thirteen months away and my pension if there's any left? heigh ho.R,.
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rumbaba
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You've had it really tough Rikii, my heart goes out to you. When Cameron talks about 'hard working families' , he has no idea what it means. I've been very lucky ( well, so far), I guess I don't really know either. You deserve some good luck, I hope you get it soon <ok>
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Rikiiboy
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Things are definately not getting better here,are they?
I myself was lucky when our council bulldozed the slums we lived in,in the late 1950's,why are we allowing any landlord to let properties at extortionate rents when they are little more than styes?


http://money.uk.msn.com/news/children-set-for-homeless-christmas
Edited by Rikiiboy, Nov 4 2013, 02:17 PM.
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Rikiiboy
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A hundred years ago in Britain people were complaining about the lack of (then working from about 2p - 71/2p an hr) any poorly paid employment,they were also moaning about poverty,immigration,extortionate rents and they starved along with their entire families with the workhouses to ultimately look forward to.
Here we are one hundred years later and need and want are still breaking down doors,kids on the streets with our couldn'tcareless in the community.It brings bile into my mouth the thoughts that we spend millions abroad in foriegn aid yet can't give the basics to our own.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hungrier-than-ever-britains-use-of-food-banks-triples-8882340.html
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Norm Deplume
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Hear! Hear! Rik.
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Rikiiboy
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And probably the most famous homeless person of all time makes me think we should all be very careful just who we p*ss off: http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/homeless.htm
Edited by Rikiiboy, Nov 19 2013, 09:20 AM.
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Rikiiboy
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Tories claiming unemployment down,no difference here George! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-24745612
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rumbaba
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Yes, the 'recovery' is a very uneven thing, if it exists at all.
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Rikiiboy
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It's Christmas?
http://www.crisis.org.uk
http://www.crisis.org.uk/news.php/750/homelessness-up-again-in-london
Edited by Rikiiboy, Dec 8 2013, 10:26 AM.
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Rikiiboy
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I still hear people requesting a return to these days,I say to them "be very careful indeed,what you wish for"
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/life/entry.shtml
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1369746/Dickens-darent-tell-truth-real-Oliver-Twist-workhouses.html
http://resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/homework/victorians/workhouses.html
Edited by Rikiiboy, Dec 16 2013, 05:35 PM.
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caissier
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Michael Gove said people are sceptical about the Tories wanting to recreate the world of Dowton Abbey - that that's a kind of joke - but that really is how they want the world to be. He said actually said that.

We are now governed by a small bizarre group of crazy fantasists, determined to realise their social wet-dreams and totally uninterested in any effects on people. They aren't proper Conservatives at all.

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rumbaba
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Gove is beyond hope and he won't be satisfied until he has pulled us all there with him.
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waiting4atickle
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caissier
Dec 17 2013, 06:31 PM
Michael Gove said people are sceptical about the Tories wanting to recreate the world of Dowton Abbey - that that's a kind of joke - but that really is how they want the world to be. He said actually said that.


I missed that. Where and when did he say it?

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caissier
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A while ago ticks ..... googleable maybe.

He'd have his servants quoting Pope.
Edited by caissier, Dec 19 2013, 02:03 AM.
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waiting4atickle
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I tried googling it, caiss, but only found items about Gove saying that Labour was the Downton Abbey party.

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Rikiiboy
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Not much about but?
http://welfarenewsservice.com/callous-tories-pledge-to-bring-back-the-workhouse/
http://money.uk.msn.com/news/eviction-heartbreak-for-200k-homes-2
Edited by Rikiiboy, Dec 20 2013, 04:40 PM.
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Rikiiboy
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDT1sx1yePM
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