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| It must be a delusion: thoughts | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 5 2008, 09:34 PM (1,841 Views) | |
| MackenzieW | Nov 8 2008, 06:07 AM Post #16 |
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Resident Time Lady
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I'm afraid I'm not too familiar with any well-noted Tolkien scholars so I can't answer your question, Jules. Perhaps someone else knows?
:lol: Though the Miramax version of Lord of the Rings could've served as its own parody. |
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You are the music while the music lasts--T.S. Eliot "Stop the damn texting and pick up a book!"--Grandmama, "The Addams Family" (Musical) "Tomorrow will be better for as long as America keeps alive the ideals of freedom and a better life." —Walt Disney "I wake in the loneliness of sunrise When the deep purple heaven turns blue And start to pray As I pray each day That I’ll hear some word from you I lie in the loneliness of evening Looking out on a silver-flaked sea And ask the moon Oh how soon, how soon Will my love come home to me"--"Loneliness of Evening," Cinderella "Thank you, Lord You have brought us Safe to shore Be our strength and protection ever more. A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire"--Heartland, as performed by Celtic Thunder I'm writing a novel! A Guide to Fanfiction for Dummies! My Little Corner I'm on Book Country! | |
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| AraionaDuBois | Nov 8 2008, 09:36 AM Post #17 |
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Chasing Shadows
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Lord of the Rings: Monty Python would habe been brilliant in its own right. There were some brilliant cartoons a while back joking around with the notion of Arwen at Helm's Deep. I'll see if I can find them, they were hysterical!
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Smashed down the light. I will not rest till I'm king. Valinor's empty now. allied the elves and men they shall be damned. A Dark Passage, Blind Guardian. Now truly I am king of the world. Master of fate Damned shall thy house be. Thou shall not question my power Nor shall thou defy me further. The Steadfast, Blind Guardian. | |
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| MackenzieW | Nov 8 2008, 09:48 AM Post #18 |
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Resident Time Lady
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I'm sure they are! (By the by, avatar change. Refresh if you still the Guy Fawkes/Harry Potter one) |
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You are the music while the music lasts--T.S. Eliot "Stop the damn texting and pick up a book!"--Grandmama, "The Addams Family" (Musical) "Tomorrow will be better for as long as America keeps alive the ideals of freedom and a better life." —Walt Disney "I wake in the loneliness of sunrise When the deep purple heaven turns blue And start to pray As I pray each day That I’ll hear some word from you I lie in the loneliness of evening Looking out on a silver-flaked sea And ask the moon Oh how soon, how soon Will my love come home to me"--"Loneliness of Evening," Cinderella "Thank you, Lord You have brought us Safe to shore Be our strength and protection ever more. A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire"--Heartland, as performed by Celtic Thunder I'm writing a novel! A Guide to Fanfiction for Dummies! My Little Corner I'm on Book Country! | |
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| AraionaDuBois | Nov 8 2008, 09:59 AM Post #19 |
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Chasing Shadows
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I have yet to find that comic, but I did find Fraud of the Rings which is a brilliant cartoon! (Love it Mac!) |
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Smashed down the light. I will not rest till I'm king. Valinor's empty now. allied the elves and men they shall be damned. A Dark Passage, Blind Guardian. Now truly I am king of the world. Master of fate Damned shall thy house be. Thou shall not question my power Nor shall thou defy me further. The Steadfast, Blind Guardian. | |
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| Siany-T | Nov 8 2008, 07:48 PM Post #20 |
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King of Nothing
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Ahh there are some brilliant mock-cartoons of LotR. Oh and if you desperatly want to see Tom Bombadil talking, there's always 'The Hobbit part 1'! By the people who made 'The One Ring...To Rule Them All' cartoons. (Nice one Mac) |
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Merlin: Thank you. Arthur: For what? For lying to my father to save your worthless hide? If you ever put me in that situation again, Merlin, I will clap you irons myself. Merlin, Series 2 David: Oh and John. My TARDIS... mine. Say sorry. John: Sorry. Tonight's the Night: Doctor Who Special Team Demyx - 'cause that is how I roll! | |
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| MackenzieW | Nov 8 2008, 09:00 PM Post #21 |
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Resident Time Lady
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My favorites are still the ones FoxTrot did before each movie premiered. I remember Jason and his friend dressing up as Sam and Frodo to re-enact scenes from the book as some frustrated director (PJ?) yelled at them. I have the entire week of FoxTrot from Return of the King's opening week with Paige, Jason and Orlando Bloom ruining the fandom for the fans. (Thanks guys, but credit goes to Cleo of Movies in 15 Minutes. She took this rather great speech delievered by Stephen Rea's character and summed it up in the best way) |
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You are the music while the music lasts--T.S. Eliot "Stop the damn texting and pick up a book!"--Grandmama, "The Addams Family" (Musical) "Tomorrow will be better for as long as America keeps alive the ideals of freedom and a better life." —Walt Disney "I wake in the loneliness of sunrise When the deep purple heaven turns blue And start to pray As I pray each day That I’ll hear some word from you I lie in the loneliness of evening Looking out on a silver-flaked sea And ask the moon Oh how soon, how soon Will my love come home to me"--"Loneliness of Evening," Cinderella "Thank you, Lord You have brought us Safe to shore Be our strength and protection ever more. A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire"--Heartland, as performed by Celtic Thunder I'm writing a novel! A Guide to Fanfiction for Dummies! My Little Corner I'm on Book Country! | |
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| jules14 | Nov 8 2008, 09:53 PM Post #22 |
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(Wo)man on a Mission
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I remember that one! Jason and Marcus were originally going to play Sam and Frodo, but they screwed up so badly and so hilariously (screaming "Aaaahhh! A girl called us friends!" in the scene with Galadriel, for example), that the director (who looked a lot like PJ!) kept losing his temper at them. On another note, I watched the RotK EE drinking game scene for the first time, and I just got so angry about Gimli´s treatment that I might never watch the films again. All the comic-relief!Gimli stuff was bad, but I think the drinking scene was just the crowning touch of insensitivity for this character. Just why in hell did PJ have to treat Gimli like this? We know quite well he could develop characters fine (I´ll admit he didn´t always do it), and even the little jokes with Merry and Pippin had some charm to them, so why couldn´t he have used at least some of the same technique with Gimli? I hate to say this, but I think Jackson did with Gimli what Bakshi did with Sam, and it turned out just as unacceptable. What I find even more unacceptable, however, is that no one has addressed Jackson--or indeed any of the people involved with the films--on this issue. They ranted about Faramir, and Jackson provided an explanation for the character change (whether you buy it or not is your affair). But no one was outraged enough to mention Gimli´s treatment in an interview. Oh, I´ve read numerous complaints about it, but it seems that deep down, it´s accepted much more than some of the other changes. Which I simply don´t understand. While some of the personalities of the film characters clash with their book personalities, at least they retain their dignity, for the most part. Jackson never had the audacity to put Elrond in a comic-relief situation, for example, and even the cringeworthy moments with Denethor are more grotesque than laughable. But to make a character the butt of everyone´s jokes--and not even good jokes, but short jokes and belching jokes--is the sign of a director of a bad comedy looking for some cheap laughs. If PJ avoided falling into so many other potential Hollywood cliché traps (Arwen-and-Aragorn sex scenes, overuse of CGI a la "Star Wars," cheesy trash-talking between opponents about to fight), surely he could have avoided falling into such an obvious one! But he didn´t. And we will never know why. Did he just not care about Gimli after spending so much time on the hobbits, Gandalf, and Aragorn? Or did he so desperately want dumb teenage girls to see his movie that he decided to make Gimli look even worse in comparison to Legolas? Or is he bitter about his lack of height and hairiness and decided to take it out on one of the only short, hairy characters in Tolkien´s works? Or does he have something against Aule? Or did he throw in this horrible comic relief on purpose, to piss off Tolkien fans (perhaps because he was fed up with them complaining about Tom Bombadil´s absence)? Whatever his reason, what he did to Gimli is disgraceful. I´m very, very afraid of how he´ll be treating the dwarves in "The Hobbit" (though I´ll admit they had less dignity even in the book than Gimli). I mean, what he did to ONE dwarf is bad enough; if he does it to TWELVE... On the other hand, if he treats the dwarves in "The Hobbit" as they deserve, with dignity and well-rounded character development and respect, I will be appeased, and I will be able to watch the Lord of the Rings movies again, especially poor Gimli, with equanimity. Why? Because I´ll know that PJ learned from his big mistake. |
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| Siany-T | Nov 8 2008, 10:04 PM Post #23 |
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King of Nothing
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I agree with you on the whole Gimli-Legolas-Drinking-Game thing. I loved it when I was all fangirly but now I think 'why bother? We all know that Legolas could drink Gimli under the table because of what he is.' Now I fast forward that but still watch Merry and Pippin singing 'Green Dragon' because I love that bit and it's totally fine. However I can see why PJ might have done it, it was because he wanted to show that Legolas and Gimli are getting on more and becoming closer and friendlier. |
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Merlin: Thank you. Arthur: For what? For lying to my father to save your worthless hide? If you ever put me in that situation again, Merlin, I will clap you irons myself. Merlin, Series 2 David: Oh and John. My TARDIS... mine. Say sorry. John: Sorry. Tonight's the Night: Doctor Who Special Team Demyx - 'cause that is how I roll! | |
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| Refia | Nov 8 2008, 10:35 PM Post #24 |
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Paying Tribute to the Past
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I was just sad Gimli's battle-shout wasn't in the movie. What was it again? "Baruk Khazad! Khazad Aimenu!" or something like that? I loved that part in the books, dunno why... Just seemed so epic. In general, I never really had a problem with Gimli as you people seem to do, but I don't have a problem with the movies in general. There are bits about Gimli that were changed that I do like, like Gimli blowing the horn of Helm Hammerhand. Still, I miss that battle-shout... |
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[align=center]“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” [/align] | |
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| jules14 | Nov 8 2008, 11:50 PM Post #25 |
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(Wo)man on a Mission
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Yes, but there were so many other, much better ways he could have shown this! What about Gimli and Legolas discussing whether to visit the Caves of Helm´s Deep or Fangorn? If PJ wanted to make this more comical than in the books, he could have turned it into an argument: GIMLI: Visit Fangorn AGAIN, after all the trouble we had the first time?! No, master Elf, you must be mad to think I´ll follow you there again. LEGOLAS: Well, I would still prefer not to see your caves. GIMLI: Caves? Bah! They´re more beautiful than even the Dwarrowdelf...and these Men do not appreciate them! They use them as caves, as holes to hide in during times of trouble! What works the dwarves could create from the crystals, if they saw them! LEGOLAS: I am certain they could, but I cannot stay underground for long. How you dwarves live without the light of the stars, I cannot see. GIMLI: We don´t need them! A crystal lamp provides all the light we need. And so on, and so forth. Or if the drinking had to be included, both Legolas and Gimli could be drunk, and telling each other stories: LEGOLAS: And there was old Galion the butler, fast asleep in the dungeons--and your father and his companions climbed into the barrels under his very nose! GIMLI (laughing): My father never told me that. Is your Dorwinion wine as potent as you say? LEGOLAS: Indeed, yes. Why, my people have even written songs about it! GIMLI: I must try it sometime. See? The drinking is still there, and I admit my dialogue is lame, but at least it has the potential to be charming and funny, not to mention it makes references to "The Hobbit". I found nothing charming or even appealing about watching Gimli belching (and perhaps farting, though I wasn´t sure), dribbling ale into his beard, and slurring lines that sound appalling coming from a Tolkien character´s lips, while Legolas just sits there smugly being eye-candy for the fanbrats in the audience. You might think I´m overreacting, but such a scene just did not belong in these movies. Hell, it doesn´t belong in ANYTHING related to Tolkien. It was what I would have expected to find in shit like "American Pie" or "Dumb and Dumber," but certainly not in "Lord of the Rings". I´m extra offended because in the other two movies, Jackson seemed to have had good judgement on what to put in the EE´s and what to scrap completely (Arwen at Helm´s Deep, anyone?). But it seems that in the RotK EE, he included the three worst scenes of his films: the drinking game, the stupid skull avalanche, and the messed-up Mouth of Sauron routine. I realize he filmed a lot of potentially awful scenes, but before, he had the sense to leave them out. I´m guessing that after the theatrical version of RotK won eleven Oscars, he just didn´t care about the EE anymore. At least I´m hoping this, because if he actually thought dropping skulls on Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli and taking away the last atom of Gimli´s dignity were improvements, my respect and estimation for him would take a nosedive. |
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| MackenzieW | Nov 8 2008, 11:56 PM Post #26 |
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Resident Time Lady
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The sad truth is that Two Towers and Return of the King are dark and when movies turn dark, there needs to be some comic relief. Did PJ do it properly? No, not really as it turned a character into more of a cariacature. And since Tolkien didn't write a (main) "goof" character, he should've found more situations or dialogue to ease the tension rather than turn a non-goof main character into one. However, I did like the drinking game scene just because it showed that even with such a shadow hanging over them and with death so prevalent, they can still celebrate. However, after witnessing a few drinking games of myself, it would've been better if a few of the soldiers had gone before Gimli. I'd imagine dwarves have a far better tolerance. I do like the idea of them just getting drunk and start the stories. |
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You are the music while the music lasts--T.S. Eliot "Stop the damn texting and pick up a book!"--Grandmama, "The Addams Family" (Musical) "Tomorrow will be better for as long as America keeps alive the ideals of freedom and a better life." —Walt Disney "I wake in the loneliness of sunrise When the deep purple heaven turns blue And start to pray As I pray each day That I’ll hear some word from you I lie in the loneliness of evening Looking out on a silver-flaked sea And ask the moon Oh how soon, how soon Will my love come home to me"--"Loneliness of Evening," Cinderella "Thank you, Lord You have brought us Safe to shore Be our strength and protection ever more. A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire"--Heartland, as performed by Celtic Thunder I'm writing a novel! A Guide to Fanfiction for Dummies! My Little Corner I'm on Book Country! | |
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| Siany-T | Nov 9 2008, 12:03 AM Post #27 |
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King of Nothing
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Jules, that's true he could have done it better but all directors have bad moments. We'll just say it was one of those, I think the skulls bit was alright and the Mouth of Sauron, well that's just a strange thing to me anyway. I think turning Legolas into Captian Obivious just so he has more lines was pretty annoying. |
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Merlin: Thank you. Arthur: For what? For lying to my father to save your worthless hide? If you ever put me in that situation again, Merlin, I will clap you irons myself. Merlin, Series 2 David: Oh and John. My TARDIS... mine. Say sorry. John: Sorry. Tonight's the Night: Doctor Who Special Team Demyx - 'cause that is how I roll! | |
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| Fishpaste | Nov 9 2008, 12:15 AM Post #28 |
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Rising Again
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Blind captain obvious... I never relly noticed how badley Gimli got treated in the movie but now I think of it...no wonder the Suethors make fun of him. |
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Books contain knowledge. Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Corruption is a crime. Crime never pays. So, if I keep reading, Im gonna go broke! Proud member of the society for the Protection of Neglected Commas (SPNC) | |
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| jules14 | Nov 9 2008, 12:17 AM Post #29 |
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(Wo)man on a Mission
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You´re probably right. As long as PJ doesn´t ruin the dwarves in "The Hobbit," I´ll be fine. And yes, Legolas as Captain Obvious was annoying as hell, although ironically, it was a lot funnier than what was supposed to be the main comic relief. PJ should have just made that the comic relief of the two movies! LEGOLAS: A red sun rises. GIMLI: No! Do you think? I thought it was green! LEGOLAS: The horses are restless. ARAGORN (exasperated): Legolas, instead of making foolish observations, why don´t you help CALM the horses down? LEGOLAS: Have you heard nothing Lord Elrond has said? The Ring must be destroyed! ELROND: Legolas, please! You do not have to repeat all I say! LEGOLAS: Blood has been spilt this night. ARAGORN & GIMLI: WE KNOW. LEGOLAS: A diversion! ALL: THANK YOU, CAPTAIN BLOODY OBVIOUS! NOW SHUT UP! I realize they wouldn´t have said it quite like that, but you get the idea. |
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| Siany-T | Nov 9 2008, 12:22 AM Post #30 |
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King of Nothing
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Ye that would have flowed through the whole triology then. You can just imagine it: (After Gandalf falls) Legolas: We need a new leader. (Gandalf returns) Legolas: You changed colour. (As the Ring is destroyed) Legolas: Frodo succeeded. Sauron has been defeated. At which point everyone gets fed up with his obviousness and throws him under a horse. Oh and I though PJ was no longer directing The Hobbit, or am I confused about something? But he could always have Legolas turn up all Captian Obvious when the dwarves are in Mirkwood: Legolas: Oh look dwarves. Thranduil: Next time Elrond calls a secret council you're going to it. |
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Merlin: Thank you. Arthur: For what? For lying to my father to save your worthless hide? If you ever put me in that situation again, Merlin, I will clap you irons myself. Merlin, Series 2 David: Oh and John. My TARDIS... mine. Say sorry. John: Sorry. Tonight's the Night: Doctor Who Special Team Demyx - 'cause that is how I roll! | |
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There were some brilliant cartoons a while back joking around with the notion of Arwen at Helm's Deep. I'll see if I can find them, they were hysterical!


1:46 AM Jul 11