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| I HATE THEM MOVIES!!!!!!!; Someone's bitter... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 11 2011, 03:59 AM (576 Views) | |
| jules14 | Jan 11 2011, 03:59 AM Post #1 |
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(Wo)man on a Mission
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I'm totally drunk now and thought itd be funny to post this rant on Jacksons' movies from someone on a GRRM forum. It's actually pretty terrifying.
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| MackenzieW | Jan 11 2011, 06:13 AM Post #2 |
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Resident Time Lady
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Oh Jonas. I can only imagine what will happen once that guy (?) sees The Hobbit. |
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You are the music while the music lasts--T.S. Eliot "Stop the damn texting and pick up a book!"--Grandmama, "The Addams Family" (Musical) "Tomorrow will be better for as long as America keeps alive the ideals of freedom and a better life." —Walt Disney "I wake in the loneliness of sunrise When the deep purple heaven turns blue And start to pray As I pray each day That I’ll hear some word from you I lie in the loneliness of evening Looking out on a silver-flaked sea And ask the moon Oh how soon, how soon Will my love come home to me"--"Loneliness of Evening," Cinderella "Thank you, Lord You have brought us Safe to shore Be our strength and protection ever more. A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire"--Heartland, as performed by Celtic Thunder I'm writing a novel! A Guide to Fanfiction for Dummies! My Little Corner I'm on Book Country! | |
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| Refia | Jan 11 2011, 08:08 AM Post #3 |
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Paying Tribute to the Past
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That's a lot of whining. ![]() I've said it before and I'll always say it: Tolkien's book can not literally be put in a movie because it would make a terrible, incoherent movie. Changes were in order to make it flow, to add suspension and to give even Tolkien-nuts moments of "What's going to happen now? I'm on the edge of my seat!". As far as movie-adaptions of LOTR go, Peter Jackson did the best possible. Sure, there are flaws, but they do not take away from the quality of the movies. They did what they could. The Return Of the King was already long in the theatre version, even longer in the Extended... If they added everything from the book like the Scourging of the Shire (my favourite part of the book, too, but do you see me raging?), TROTK would be 5 hours or more. No human being can keep his attention on 1 thing for that long. Critics already complained about the theatre version taking so damn long to end! The movies are Peter Jackson's version of LOTR. Recognizable as LOTR, familiar, but with differences, because it's a movie, and not a book, and what works in a book can't always work in a movie, and the other way around. That's not to say I don't have gripes with the movies or some changes that PJ made, of course I do. Mostly because the changes he made to for example Denethor, Boromir and Gimli have had disastrous results for those three in badfiction, making us have to suffer through Sue-fics full of ebul!Denethor, Rapist!Boromir and Retarded!Gimli. Not adding certain characters like Halbarad or Glorfindel I have less problems with. The movies are chuck-full of characters, mythology and plotlines already as they are, adding ALL characters from the book would not make the movies better. It would make them a complete unwatchable mess. People already had problems following the plot and characters of Pirates 3, what makes anyone think an audience could take the full, unedited version of Tolkien's book turned movie? Aside from the Tolkien nuts. Some character changes were even inevitable. Legolas in the book, for example, was just there. I mean, he had no character! So of course they had to try and spice him up. It just backfired on them by having him be captain obvious (because he had no lines noteworthy of in the book, they had to give him something to say in the movies) and casting a pretty-boy as him meaning we have to suffer through countless Sues with bad Legomance. Then there's of course Sauron, on who opinions are divided. Some like having him visually represented in the movies, others (like the Nostalgia Critic) prefer him to be a looming presence, a shadowy figure of utmost evil like in the animated version. Me, I didn't really mind the flaming eye of Doom. The collapse of Barad Dûr was cool! And as for his tall-evil-knight look, I am SO glad that was in the movie. Why? Because it's as close as we'll ever get to having a movie version of Morgoth. Sauron's design was based on Morgoth's, after all. And I don't think we'll ever see a movie based on the Morgoth storyline. |
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[align=center]“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” [/align] | |
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| jules14 | Jan 11 2011, 06:37 PM Post #4 |
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(Wo)man on a Mission
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That'll probably result in a five-page rant.
Have to say I agree. I was just drunk when I posted this. Do you want to delete it?
I agree with you on Denethor and Gimli, but I don't think Jackson really changed Boromir much. I don't know why people say he did. Makes the Suethor portrayal of Boromir more incomprehensible. |
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| Refia | Jan 11 2011, 07:40 PM Post #5 |
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Paying Tribute to the Past
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Nah Jules, leave it! It's fine to discuss this. With Boromir, I think the changes were more subtle, the way he spoke, the words he said, stuff like that. |
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[align=center]“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” [/align] | |
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| Ariel | Jan 12 2011, 01:08 AM Post #6 |
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Professional Nutcase
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Actually I was under the impression that he didn't try to take the throne was because he knew it would be suicide what with Sauron inhabiting Mordor and all.
Again, I was under the impression that he started going a little loopy after his wife died and losing battles against orcs and losing his son didn't help much.
Erm, the ghosts were done better than the spider. Seriously, when's the last time you saw a spider with a stinger on it's arse. What is it, half hornet? Dude, if they were to do everything exactly as they happened in the book, you'd be sitting there for days trying to watch it. I like it and all, but I do not want to see the entire thing on the big screen. (Especially not Tom. Seriously, what was the point of that scene?) I don't think he changed Boromir much either. He was still the one that was corrupted the most by the ring, and he still redeemed himself for it. Saying that he was not corrupted by it in the book just says that you haven't read it in awhile. I do agree with the issues on Frodo and Aragorn. Aragorn struck me as a whiny idiot who spent the entire trilogy going 'I don't wanna be king' in the movies. That annoyed me since that wasn't what he was like in the books. Frodo, in the books, had a chance of destroying the ring if he hadn't met Shelob without carting Sam along. He was that way in the animated version as well. In Jackson's version on the other hand, he wouldn't have gotten to Shelob without Sam's help. Seriously, the next time you watch the trilogy, count how many times Sam keeps him from putting the ring on when there's a Ringwraith nearby. It'll astound you. Despite the mischaracterizations, I still love the movies and I am eagerly waiting for The Hobbit to come out. |
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| jules14 | Jan 12 2011, 03:28 AM Post #7 |
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(Wo)man on a Mission
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You're right. And actually, Sauron DIDN'T get the best of him. Sure, he was desperate, and insane from looking into the palantir, but Sauron didn't get control over him. In fact, it was Jackson who portrayed him as being taken over by Sauron.
I still can't figure it out. It feels like something from another book pasted in to Lord of the Rings.
What bothered me about Aragorn was that Viggo Mortensen did the Ranger part of his personality well, but not the king part. As king, Aragorn just seemed...boring. If I'd been in the movies, I would have preferred to have Gandalf, Boromir, or Theoden as my king.
I'll have to try that sometime. Though I love the movies, I still love to make fun of Elijah Wood's portrayal of Frodo. I have the feeling Bilbo will be a lot better in The Hobbit. |
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| Caranthol | Jan 12 2011, 10:12 AM Post #8 |
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At Journey's End
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Well, whoever wrote that rant has some good points, e.g. the portrayal of Denethor. And he/she was spot on when it comes to the Paths of the Dead. I remember that I was horribly disappointed when I saw that scene in the movie theatre. I mean, glowing ghosts that look like they've been ripped out of a cheesy cartoon? Oh please! The damn ghosts also made parts of the Battle of the Pelennor Fields downright laughable. They wouldn't have been half so bad if they hadn't the neon-green glow around them, but obviously someone decided that the movie wasn't The Return of the King but rather "Lord of the Rings: The Lights of Las Vegas". Then there's the last complaint I have about the RotK: The Orcs. In the first two movies they were just perfect, so I can't fathom why they suddenly changed their appearance for the third. I know the Orcs are supposed to be mutilated and twisted, but in RotK some of them looked just like lumps of melted Play-Doh! I really preferred the designs of, for instance, the orcs of Moria and the Uruk-Hai. Otherwise, I loved the movies and think they are the definite movie adaptation of LotR for a long time to come. There are many flaws, big and small, but the movies still IMHO capture the "feel" of Tolkien's world and that's the main thing. Besides, on a personal note, without the movies I maybe wouldn't have ever read Tolkien's works. It was the Fellowship of the Ring (to seeing which my brother had almost to drag me) that fired my interest.
If I remember correctly, there is more and more marked foreshadowing of Boromir's fall in the movies than in the book. Perhaps it's because of that. I've seen that especially the scene where Boromir utters the line "It is a strange fate we should suffer so much fear and doubt… over so small a thing" is portrayed in most of the Suefics (except for Boromances, of course).
I have to say that's another thing that bugged me. I've come to think that the Eye of Sauron in the books is very much symbolic, and there are hints that Sauron actually has a body. The eye thing, however, was only a minor nuisance and I have to admit that it's visually effective. Perhaps movies can't always be as subtle as books, but I can see why they portrayed Sauron as they did. Edit: Oh, and about Faramir. I have to agree almost completely with the ranter, Faramir was pretty much spoiled in the movie. In the books, his nobility of character makes Denethor's favouring of Boromir all the more glaring and unfair. Besides, it makes the scenes where he gets wounded and is on the brink of death more tragic and suspenseful. At least when I read the book I sincerely hoped he would live because he was such a good guy. |
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"Ha! Wonnige Glut! Leuchtender Glanz! Strahlend nun offen steht mir die Straße. Im Feuer mich baden!" - Siegfried, Act Three, Scene Two. | |
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| Ariel | Jan 12 2011, 08:54 PM Post #9 |
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Professional Nutcase
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Yeah, I kinda got that feeling to. It would be rather inconvenient to be a giant eyeball all the time, plus where's the logic in it? It could have just as easily have been a giant nose or something.
I never noticed that. Huh. I need to watch RotK again, I guess. I mean I know there was that one that looked like his brain was coming out of the side of his face, but other than that....
I never noticed it myself until I saw Jackson's and Bakshi's version back to back. Then I realized how much of a wimp Jackson portrayed him as. I could understand the Barrowight scene because that's where they got their weapons from (which Jackson never explained, incidentally), but Tom served no purpose and was mentioned in passing about three times after that. |
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| jules14 | Jan 12 2011, 09:28 PM Post #10 |
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(Wo)man on a Mission
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See, it's a bit strange, but the changes to Faramir's character never bothered me that much, except for the pacing problems and extra scenes. Then again, I always thought Boromir was a lot more interesting.
Yeah, I'll have to watch the movie again. I think the effects in general were worse in RotK than the other two movies. I have no idea why.
So Sauron could sniff out the Ring, huh? |
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| Ariel | Jan 12 2011, 09:46 PM Post #11 |
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Professional Nutcase
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Actually I was just thinking of the boogers.... |
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| Caranthol | Jan 12 2011, 10:26 PM Post #12 |
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At Journey's End
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Well, I forgot to specify that I meant the faces of the orcs. Especially the Orc leader at Pelennor is more laughable than terrifying. As for bad effects, perhaps the budget was running low at that point? But then again, one could suppose film companies know how to prioritize.
For me that's been nearly the opposite. I know Faramir in the books is a little Gary Stuish, but I can't but like the character. |
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"Ha! Wonnige Glut! Leuchtender Glanz! Strahlend nun offen steht mir die Straße. Im Feuer mich baden!" - Siegfried, Act Three, Scene Two. | |
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| MackenzieW | Jan 13 2011, 04:43 AM Post #13 |
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Resident Time Lady
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Of course he's a bit Gary Stuish--as the ranter pointed out, he IS Tolkien's author avatar. Eowyn was originally supposed to end up with Aragorn, but then Tolkien pretty much fell in love with her and made Faramir to be him (and get the girl). Of course, I don't mind. I love their relationship and think he's better for Eowyn than Aragorn anyway. |
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You are the music while the music lasts--T.S. Eliot "Stop the damn texting and pick up a book!"--Grandmama, "The Addams Family" (Musical) "Tomorrow will be better for as long as America keeps alive the ideals of freedom and a better life." —Walt Disney "I wake in the loneliness of sunrise When the deep purple heaven turns blue And start to pray As I pray each day That I’ll hear some word from you I lie in the loneliness of evening Looking out on a silver-flaked sea And ask the moon Oh how soon, how soon Will my love come home to me"--"Loneliness of Evening," Cinderella "Thank you, Lord You have brought us Safe to shore Be our strength and protection ever more. A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire"--Heartland, as performed by Celtic Thunder I'm writing a novel! A Guide to Fanfiction for Dummies! My Little Corner I'm on Book Country! | |
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| Amarth | Feb 7 2011, 05:17 PM Post #14 |
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Rising Again
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I wouldn't mind removal of some scenes - if they hadn't put uncanonical scenes to replace them. Paticularly the Warg battle scene in TTT and its aftermath. What was the point of that? Or inserting romance in general? In book, it's in the background - and for a good reason : what does it matter, when the whole world is at stake? Eowyn's attraction for Aragorn was important, for it was behind her decision to disguise herself and ride to Pelennor, and it was given due attention in the book - but I really don't think there was any hanky-panky in Rivendell, particularly given much lauded sharp Elven senses. Laws and Customs of the Eldar aside, I'd like to think that Aragorn has more honour and responsibility than to risk staining Arwen's reputation when he isn't sure not only if he will be able to meet requirements to marry her, but whether he'll be alive by the end of it all. And why must the expression of their love be physical? To adapt the story for modern audience? But hasn't kissing been degraded to nearly nothing, isn't it but a prize in games today? Wouldn't meaningful looks mean so much more? What's wrong with courtly love? And let's not get started with the whole rescue scene in FOTR. There is a self-assertive warrior princess in the story, no need to create another. Honestly, if Jackson had to have romance, strong female characters, ebul!fathers, supposed allies gone antagonist (Faramir), and hot blonde elves with cool abilities and tear-jerking death scenes, he should have filmed Beren and Luthien. There the father is opposing and maiden does go out to save the day, and she actually possesses special powers. We also have love rivals/supposed to help but gone ebul! for "dramatic tension". Main charcaters include hunky man and his friend the golden-haired Elven lord who, canonically AND fanonically, pwns Legolas and Haldir, together (Down, Inner Noldor Fangirl! Down!). Seriously, he almost defeats a much more powerful Sauron than the one in LOTR. Sure, he does die, but it is stated that he is soon re-embodied, and I'm sure PJ wouldn't mind inserting a redemption-renewal-rebirth scene for the sake of fangurls, so we get both the tear-jerking death scene and a promise of future. And there is also a scene where aforementioned hunky man, elven lord AND his elven entourage get naked. In a dungeon. As for those who wonder about Tom - perhaps he is a part of another story Tolkien thought of, which ties in with the rest of his legendarium, but has never been written. For Lord of the Rings is not a stand-alone, it's merely a part of a great legend which spans millenia. Or, perhaps, it's supposed to give us hope - for Men, Elves, and Wizards may be tempted by the ring, but there is someone who isn't affected by it at all. Thus, it is not omnipotent. Thus, it may be resisted and destroyed. Something to remember, when Boromir's actions and Frodo's despair cause us to wonder if the whole task isn't pointless. But I can understand his removal from the film. I cannot, however, understand inserting nonexisting events, with hardly any importance to the main plot. I can understand fleshing-out characters who are not detailed (Legolas), but why warp wonderful, well-rounded characters? Denethor and Faramir are the the most cited examples, but I think Elrond, "kind as summer", has also been wronged for the sake of Jackson's vision of drama. You may not have space to put in the arrival of the Grey company, but why did you bring elves of Lothlorien to the battle? You left out Glorfindel, but "Figwit" gets a completely unnecessary scene? I'll probably regret this rant later, but I've read one "I've read the books. Pippin threw the skeleton down the well. Aragorn disappeared during the battle with wargs. Haldir comes to Helm's Deep" fic too many (they've even gotten "cunning" enough to replace Arwen with Glorfindel). And I've finally recieved illustrated Silmarillion in English. So I guess I'll be in Canon-Nazi mode for a while. |
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"I dance the dance of the fool and pray you find me mad for if you lay hands upon the root you'll know me, without illusion and find me guilty of the truth."-Malkav's Words "LEGOLAS! YOU ARE HEIR TO THE THRONE OF MIRKWOOD! YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO HAVE YOUR WAY WITH RANDOM GIRLS IN CLOSETS!"-Glorfindel, "Never Leave Fanfiction Lying Around" by crazyroninchic "Dear Harry, If Voldemort kills us, we turn into sparkly vampires. Can we panic NOW? Sincerely, Ron" “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.E- Albert Einstein My Tolkien fanfic recs Anime and manga fanfic recs Book and game fanfic recs ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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1:42 AM Jul 11