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| Fanon Beliefs That Need to Die; Because They Exist | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 16 2012, 02:57 AM (2,279 Views) | |
| Amarth | Nov 16 2012, 11:35 PM Post #16 |
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Rising Again
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THIS.
Well, we can still use this thread to vent, right? |
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"I dance the dance of the fool and pray you find me mad for if you lay hands upon the root you'll know me, without illusion and find me guilty of the truth."-Malkav's Words "LEGOLAS! YOU ARE HEIR TO THE THRONE OF MIRKWOOD! YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO HAVE YOUR WAY WITH RANDOM GIRLS IN CLOSETS!"-Glorfindel, "Never Leave Fanfiction Lying Around" by crazyroninchic "Dear Harry, If Voldemort kills us, we turn into sparkly vampires. Can we panic NOW? Sincerely, Ron" 典wo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.・- Albert Einstein My Tolkien fanfic recs Anime and manga fanfic recs Book and game fanfic recs ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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| MackenzieW | Nov 16 2012, 11:37 PM Post #17 |
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Resident Time Lady
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Absolutely. That's why I started with "You can keep posting". I actually plan on linking to this thread at the end of the blog post so people can see it. |
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You are the music while the music lasts--T.S. Eliot "Stop the damn texting and pick up a book!"--Grandmama, "The Addams Family" (Musical) "Tomorrow will be better for as long as America keeps alive the ideals of freedom and a better life." 邑alt Disney "I wake in the loneliness of sunrise When the deep purple heaven turns blue And start to pray As I pray each day That I値l hear some word from you I lie in the loneliness of evening Looking out on a silver-flaked sea And ask the moon Oh how soon, how soon Will my love come home to me"--"Loneliness of Evening," Cinderella "Thank you, Lord You have brought us Safe to shore Be our strength and protection ever more. A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire"--Heartland, as performed by Celtic Thunder I'm writing a novel! A Guide to Fanfiction for Dummies! My Little Corner I'm on Book Country! | |
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| Fishpaste | Nov 19 2012, 10:41 PM Post #18 |
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Rising Again
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*shrugs* I quite like fics where Erestor and Glorfindel are friends. An I do enjoy Weasley twin Elladan and Elrohir if well written, not bucket over the door pranks. However the belief that Gilrean dies when Estel was a baby annoys me. That's not movie canon is it? I know they showed the headstone... |
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Books contain knowledge. Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Corruption is a crime. Crime never pays. So, if I keep reading, Im gonna go broke! Proud member of the society for the Protection of Neglected Commas (SPNC) | |
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| MackenzieW | Nov 20 2012, 12:06 AM Post #19 |
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Resident Time Lady
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I don't think the movie ever addressed Aragorn's parentage--just that his father was Arathorn II. Nothing more. I don't even think the movie ever addressed the fact Aragorn grew up in Rivendell. |
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You are the music while the music lasts--T.S. Eliot "Stop the damn texting and pick up a book!"--Grandmama, "The Addams Family" (Musical) "Tomorrow will be better for as long as America keeps alive the ideals of freedom and a better life." 邑alt Disney "I wake in the loneliness of sunrise When the deep purple heaven turns blue And start to pray As I pray each day That I値l hear some word from you I lie in the loneliness of evening Looking out on a silver-flaked sea And ask the moon Oh how soon, how soon Will my love come home to me"--"Loneliness of Evening," Cinderella "Thank you, Lord You have brought us Safe to shore Be our strength and protection ever more. A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire"--Heartland, as performed by Celtic Thunder I'm writing a novel! A Guide to Fanfiction for Dummies! My Little Corner I'm on Book Country! | |
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| Amarth | Nov 20 2012, 08:56 AM Post #20 |
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Rising Again
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I'm guessing that the term "foster" is causing confusion there. (Not 100% sure, but I think it was used related to Aragorn and Elrond in canon - maybe not in book but appendices or writings unpublished during Tolkien's life.) Nowadays, we are usually thinking of "foster parents" - someone who cares for an orphan or child of unfit parents until it's of age. But recently I've been both reading sagas (from which Tolkien drew a lot of inspiration) and returning to GRRM in original English(whose Westeros is loosely based on early Medieval Britain), and there "fostering" a child, particularly a young man, with living parents, was something that happened too. The particulars vary - father was too busy with other matters, thought that the other person will be a good role model, political maneuvering - and there is one instance where a second son chose to hang around a certain man because he liked him and he is referred to as the boy's "foster father". And these "boys" were not necessarily children - in fact, it's more likely there have already began puberty at least, particularly those mentioned in sagas. I'm guessing Elrond "fostered" Aragorn in this manner - but modern reader sees "foster" and thinks he raised little orphan Aragorn who couldn't take care of himself. I don't think movies went deeply into Aragorn's origins. Legolas' outburst seems to have been the main exposition there. |
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"I dance the dance of the fool and pray you find me mad for if you lay hands upon the root you'll know me, without illusion and find me guilty of the truth."-Malkav's Words "LEGOLAS! YOU ARE HEIR TO THE THRONE OF MIRKWOOD! YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO HAVE YOUR WAY WITH RANDOM GIRLS IN CLOSETS!"-Glorfindel, "Never Leave Fanfiction Lying Around" by crazyroninchic "Dear Harry, If Voldemort kills us, we turn into sparkly vampires. Can we panic NOW? Sincerely, Ron" 典wo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.・- Albert Einstein My Tolkien fanfic recs Anime and manga fanfic recs Book and game fanfic recs ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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| MackenzieW | Nov 20 2012, 11:13 AM Post #21 |
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Resident Time Lady
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And probably gave birth to the "Legolas and Aragorn were bestest friends" theory because how else would Legolas know who Aragorn was? But I agree with everything you wrote. I also think what may be confusing them is the fact Aragorn didn't know who he was until he was an adult. People may not understand that, given the danger, Gilraen agreed to hide his identity. They may not understand how a mother didn't reveal his name or have to answer any questions. |
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You are the music while the music lasts--T.S. Eliot "Stop the damn texting and pick up a book!"--Grandmama, "The Addams Family" (Musical) "Tomorrow will be better for as long as America keeps alive the ideals of freedom and a better life." 邑alt Disney "I wake in the loneliness of sunrise When the deep purple heaven turns blue And start to pray As I pray each day That I値l hear some word from you I lie in the loneliness of evening Looking out on a silver-flaked sea And ask the moon Oh how soon, how soon Will my love come home to me"--"Loneliness of Evening," Cinderella "Thank you, Lord You have brought us Safe to shore Be our strength and protection ever more. A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire"--Heartland, as performed by Celtic Thunder I'm writing a novel! A Guide to Fanfiction for Dummies! My Little Corner I'm on Book Country! | |
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| Amarth | Nov 20 2012, 01:39 PM Post #22 |
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Rising Again
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When Legolas was not even involved in the original. (But I understand the decision there: they wanted to introduce him, just as they introduced Gimli by his attack on the ring. Silly scenes both, but it works better for movie-goers than just being told "these random dudes will go in the Fellowship because of reasons".) Still, it doesn't have to mean they were BFFs. But I understand what makes people think so. From what I remember, they communicate with each other often later on too. Mostly in effort to expand Legolas' character, but it sounds like they went adventuring before. But, like you said, movie canon is still canon. ![]()
Given how names are handled in Tolkienverse, "Aragorn" is but one of them, not "true name". His lineage needed not be mentioned when he was younger - it was hardly relevant until he became old enough to get involved in such matters. They would have probably revealed it so that the knowledge could be transferred to his heirs - and so he would see need to make them - but I don't think they expected him to be the one to take back the throne until other circumstances began to work in their favour. But either way, I agree - that might be another reason why people presume Gilraen died while Aragorn was a baby. |
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"I dance the dance of the fool and pray you find me mad for if you lay hands upon the root you'll know me, without illusion and find me guilty of the truth."-Malkav's Words "LEGOLAS! YOU ARE HEIR TO THE THRONE OF MIRKWOOD! YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO HAVE YOUR WAY WITH RANDOM GIRLS IN CLOSETS!"-Glorfindel, "Never Leave Fanfiction Lying Around" by crazyroninchic "Dear Harry, If Voldemort kills us, we turn into sparkly vampires. Can we panic NOW? Sincerely, Ron" 典wo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.・- Albert Einstein My Tolkien fanfic recs Anime and manga fanfic recs Book and game fanfic recs ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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| MackenzieW | Nov 21 2012, 12:18 AM Post #23 |
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Resident Time Lady
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I can accept adventuring before. I can't accept "Legolas was like the kid who lived down the block and came over to ask Mr. Elrond if Estel could please come out and play ball today." |
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You are the music while the music lasts--T.S. Eliot "Stop the damn texting and pick up a book!"--Grandmama, "The Addams Family" (Musical) "Tomorrow will be better for as long as America keeps alive the ideals of freedom and a better life." 邑alt Disney "I wake in the loneliness of sunrise When the deep purple heaven turns blue And start to pray As I pray each day That I値l hear some word from you I lie in the loneliness of evening Looking out on a silver-flaked sea And ask the moon Oh how soon, how soon Will my love come home to me"--"Loneliness of Evening," Cinderella "Thank you, Lord You have brought us Safe to shore Be our strength and protection ever more. A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire"--Heartland, as performed by Celtic Thunder I'm writing a novel! A Guide to Fanfiction for Dummies! My Little Corner I'm on Book Country! | |
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| Amarth | Nov 21 2012, 01:38 AM Post #24 |
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Rising Again
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True. Some take it too far. |
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"I dance the dance of the fool and pray you find me mad for if you lay hands upon the root you'll know me, without illusion and find me guilty of the truth."-Malkav's Words "LEGOLAS! YOU ARE HEIR TO THE THRONE OF MIRKWOOD! YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO HAVE YOUR WAY WITH RANDOM GIRLS IN CLOSETS!"-Glorfindel, "Never Leave Fanfiction Lying Around" by crazyroninchic "Dear Harry, If Voldemort kills us, we turn into sparkly vampires. Can we panic NOW? Sincerely, Ron" 典wo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.・- Albert Einstein My Tolkien fanfic recs Anime and manga fanfic recs Book and game fanfic recs ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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| Fishpaste | Nov 21 2012, 01:38 PM Post #25 |
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Rising Again
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Well Elrond fostered Aragorn when he was two and Gilraen came to Rivendell with him. I know Elrond always thought Aragorn might be the one to take the throne, that's why he named him 'Hope' of mankind and Gilraen dies when he was in his fifties or sixties. *shrugs* Elrond thought of Aragorn as a son and vice versa, sunds like fostering to me. |
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Books contain knowledge. Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Corruption is a crime. Crime never pays. So, if I keep reading, Im gonna go broke! Proud member of the society for the Protection of Neglected Commas (SPNC) | |
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| Amarth | Nov 21 2012, 01:47 PM Post #26 |
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Rising Again
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While I do agree they have been close, I meant the confusion is caused by legal matters. In "olden days" examples I mentioned such fostering happened while biological parents were alive and healthy. But like I said, nowadays one fosters a child of dead or unfit parents. So maybe people are thinking "Elrond is fostering Aragorn=both parents are dead" because of that. |
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"I dance the dance of the fool and pray you find me mad for if you lay hands upon the root you'll know me, without illusion and find me guilty of the truth."-Malkav's Words "LEGOLAS! YOU ARE HEIR TO THE THRONE OF MIRKWOOD! YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO HAVE YOUR WAY WITH RANDOM GIRLS IN CLOSETS!"-Glorfindel, "Never Leave Fanfiction Lying Around" by crazyroninchic "Dear Harry, If Voldemort kills us, we turn into sparkly vampires. Can we panic NOW? Sincerely, Ron" 典wo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.・- Albert Einstein My Tolkien fanfic recs Anime and manga fanfic recs Book and game fanfic recs ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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| Refia | Nov 21 2012, 03:07 PM Post #27 |
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Paying Tribute to the Past
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It would be kind of weird if Elrond really saw Aragorn as a son. I mean, wouldn't that give Aragorn's relationship with Arwen a bit of an incestuous tone? |
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[align=center]的s God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? [/align] | |
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| Amarth | Nov 21 2012, 10:39 PM Post #28 |
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Rising Again
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Not if they don't see each other as siblings. And remember, they haven't even seen each other until Aragorn was well grown up. And main problem with incest is on the genetic level, and there is none of that. (Technically, they are very distantly related anyway.) Also, isn't "son" used for people marrying one's daughter? It's a bit difficult to explain, but fostering=/=adoption. But dissonance in the meaning of the word is exactly why some of these fanon beliefs exist. |
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"I dance the dance of the fool and pray you find me mad for if you lay hands upon the root you'll know me, without illusion and find me guilty of the truth."-Malkav's Words "LEGOLAS! YOU ARE HEIR TO THE THRONE OF MIRKWOOD! YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO HAVE YOUR WAY WITH RANDOM GIRLS IN CLOSETS!"-Glorfindel, "Never Leave Fanfiction Lying Around" by crazyroninchic "Dear Harry, If Voldemort kills us, we turn into sparkly vampires. Can we panic NOW? Sincerely, Ron" 典wo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.・- Albert Einstein My Tolkien fanfic recs Anime and manga fanfic recs Book and game fanfic recs ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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| MackenzieW | Nov 22 2012, 12:03 AM Post #29 |
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Resident Time Lady
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No. It happened quite frequently in the past. Sometimes it made more sense for the daughter to marry the young man the father fostered because it made sense. He was someone the father knew. And usually there was a genuine connection between the two.
It's fallen off in modern times, but yes. A man didn't introduce his son' wife as his daughter-in-law but his daughter. It still exists, in the wife or husband who addresses their spouse's parents as "Mom" and "Dad." (My parents being one of them. My father loves to tell the story of the time my mom said she was going to call her mother, got on the phone and said "Hi, Dad. Is Mom there?" My father thought she had lost it as my grandfather had died before my parents met. Then he realized she had decided to call his mother before calling her own and had been talking to my other grandfather). |
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You are the music while the music lasts--T.S. Eliot "Stop the damn texting and pick up a book!"--Grandmama, "The Addams Family" (Musical) "Tomorrow will be better for as long as America keeps alive the ideals of freedom and a better life." 邑alt Disney "I wake in the loneliness of sunrise When the deep purple heaven turns blue And start to pray As I pray each day That I値l hear some word from you I lie in the loneliness of evening Looking out on a silver-flaked sea And ask the moon Oh how soon, how soon Will my love come home to me"--"Loneliness of Evening," Cinderella "Thank you, Lord You have brought us Safe to shore Be our strength and protection ever more. A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire"--Heartland, as performed by Celtic Thunder I'm writing a novel! A Guide to Fanfiction for Dummies! My Little Corner I'm on Book Country! | |
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| MackenzieW | Dec 11 2012, 10:08 AM Post #30 |
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Resident Time Lady
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I've posted my blog entry. Please to enjoy. |
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You are the music while the music lasts--T.S. Eliot "Stop the damn texting and pick up a book!"--Grandmama, "The Addams Family" (Musical) "Tomorrow will be better for as long as America keeps alive the ideals of freedom and a better life." 邑alt Disney "I wake in the loneliness of sunrise When the deep purple heaven turns blue And start to pray As I pray each day That I値l hear some word from you I lie in the loneliness of evening Looking out on a silver-flaked sea And ask the moon Oh how soon, how soon Will my love come home to me"--"Loneliness of Evening," Cinderella "Thank you, Lord You have brought us Safe to shore Be our strength and protection ever more. A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire A Thiarna dean trocaire A Chriost dean trocaire"--Heartland, as performed by Celtic Thunder I'm writing a novel! A Guide to Fanfiction for Dummies! My Little Corner I'm on Book Country! | |
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