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Faith vs. Science
Tweet Topic Started: Feb 28 2009, 06:57 PM (554 Views)
Post #26 Mar 1 2009, 09:33 AM DaFranker
I like Duke's view on humans and how humans are supposed to be. I agree with that. I also agree that we need more thinkers. I also agree that believing in something just because we don't know or someone claims it is impossible to know is taking the easy way out, and as such claiming that "God is the only possible answer to how the Universe exist since we can't know otherwise" is a stupid hoax.

I will, however, leave the following food for thought to those who rely on the common argument of "verifiability and concreteness" to claim that they trust in science completely:

Theoretical Scenario 1: There is no matter in the Universe. Matter is simply a metaphor humans have created for what is in fact simply bits of information which communicate and interact in such a way that those bits, which we shall call Quantum Particles, believe one another to be in certain manners of interaction. There being four (or more) possible interactions each with varying levels of intensity, we obtain a "space" in which the intensity of interaction of a certain type between two particles will determine their distance from one another on that "dimension" (interaction type). This scenario may or may not imply that the universe is contained within an information construct, such as a computer.

In this scenario, no matter how much you want science to be explaining everything, there is still a law somewhere, some logic behind it, something, that makes it so that those "particles" just have to interact with all the other ones in those specific ways. Otherwise, wouldn't the interactions be a lot more chaotic, thus resulting in a linear Perfect Logic system much like the ones in our computers? If that is so, it would then imply that our entire Universe exists solely because someone or something decided to fake and/or simulate it, and as such, we are bloody murderers in that we create universes daily in which we throw poor creatures like Orcs and Murlocs to their death needlessly.

This is just food for thought. Some of you may speculate as to what my beliefs are, some of you may already know, but I'll abstain from all that for now, mainly because I have covered the question at length recently during one of my weekly philosophy sessions (We have a philosophy group thing at my college where we just meet to discuss and think in a non-school-restricted environment... it's actually extremely productive).

As for the question of religion, they don't just push it through hate, fear and all those things, they push it straight through the Mind Logic, where the unknowing person's mind will accept bits of information as true for that is their only experience in that domain and cannot know that other things exist, and all those little bits of information will eventually coalesce into strong arguments that their own mind will form to help towards a theory of Creationism or Intelligent Design.

That is why I often say that learning and evolving is one's duty towards all other humans, as to prevent such things from happening and thus prevent ridiculous situations such as one where a person's God requires them at all costs to eradicate another's entire race. Evolution and information will not prevent the person from absorbing those bits of information which "prove the existence of a God", but rather on the contrary help them absorb even more, and they will also know that those "facts" are not the only things that can be in those regards, having experienced more. Thus, they are more immune to cultural brain-washing.

I'll cut myself short because I've turned this into something more about humans than the actual question of Science vs. Faith -- I simply believe, however, that humans will not be capable of seeing what is "real" and knowing the Truth about this without first solving their own problems. Don't try to fix your car when your spanner is broken. Similarly, don't try to understand the Universe when your tools for learning and understanding are incomplete (or in some cases, just plain broken).
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Post #27 Mar 1 2009, 12:10 PM Scorp
DaFranker
 
...don't try to understand the Universe when your tools for learning and understanding are incomplete


The way I see it, we need to try to understand the universe so that we make our tools for learning and understanding better. Then maybe one day (if we haven't already killed ourselves), we can understand it.

Unfortunately, I doubt that day will ever come. The human race will extinctify itself first.
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Post #28 Mar 1 2009, 01:29 PM DaFranker
Oh, wait, you're actually right. Let me rephrase that.

"... don't try to achieve complete understanding of the Universe and/or claim that you hold it when your tools for reaching either are incomplete and more than insufficient for the task."
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Post #29 Mar 1 2009, 02:11 PM Scorp
DaFranker
 
Oh, wait, you're actually right


Interesting change of pace for me, isn't it? :winknudge:
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Scorp: I'm going to take some pictures of me with cat-ears and a lion's tail.
Fenrisulfr.: What?! That's a terrible idea!
Scorp: ...Why? I'm a sexy beast!
Fenrisulfr.: You'll turn into Crim-bait!
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Post #30 Mar 1 2009, 02:52 PM Duke Nukem
o_O agreed, ffs what was that? instantaneous change? I thought this was the internet where people held there ideas -.- oh well if you changed your view so quickly then the topic must be working to make people think
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Post #31 Mar 1 2009, 09:00 PM InfernoTsunami
Haha, alluding to my other comment, I meant that when generally looked at, Science is almost always picked over Faith. I mean, we can 'see' science working. Faith? You know after you die, too much of a wait for a lot of folks xP
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Post #32 Mar 1 2009, 10:05 PM Duke Nukem
o_O anyone have anythoughts on his comment?
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I'm no mere simple man. I am more than just a man, i am Duke Nukem. I succeed where you fail, i win where you lose, i achieve absolute victory where you suffer absolute humiliation. Let's just say ... I've got balls of steel.

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Post #33 Mar 2 2009, 10:25 AM DaFranker
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"That's what SHE said!"
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Post #34 Mar 2 2009, 02:40 PM Grunt_of_War
Heh, I was wondering what the crap that long series of blanks and dots were for... XD
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Post #35 Mar 7 2009, 07:20 PM vanishedspartan
I personally believe in Christianity and have even taken a class that is based on the difference between Christianity and Evolution. What I got out of that class is there is enough evidence for both arguments but at the same time, neither is inherently right or wrong.

I think that God created the heavens and the earth and does fool around with fate every once in a while but on a regular basis does not.

I personally see that it is possible to follow both Christianity and evolution to a certain point because for most of it the Bible does not contradict evolution. However, Christianity was created first and therefore would only allow for fillers based on the findings of people, correct or incorrect they may be.

I also must say that the error in Christianity is not in the Bible or the religion itself. The error is based on misconstrued theories of misinformed and misguided people. The movie Religulous or whatever it is called (I have only seen previews) is based on proving religion wrong, but they did not consult the Bible or any true-standing evidence, just a few people on the street and a few actors that read their lines.

I do not wish to offend anyone. This is just my belief and standing on religion and science.

[edit]: I would just like to add that Christianity has been true in everything it has said that was scientific. It also said in the Ten Commandments the basic laws and structure of a civil society. Just because someone who claims to be Christian or kind commits a murder and feels justified in it does not mean that Christians in general will feel the same. As a matter of fact, most Christians believe that sin cannot be fixed. That the only way to get to heaven is through trying your hardest to refrain from sin. If a person doesn't try than there is no justification.
Edited by vanishedspartan, Mar 7 2009, 07:30 PM.
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Post #36 Mar 12 2009, 03:35 PM Hadrix
My personal opinion is... Christianity is not the only form of Faith, Green-Skins! Now, THIS will be a curve-ball. I (Not kidding) personally believe that the Gods of Mt. Olympus exist, along with the Titans that were never slain. Now, who's to say I'm in the wrong? It makes just as much sense as Jesus, Buddha's beliefs and all 'f tha' jazz, and just as much, if not more, than Science.

Now, Science is really a bitch, seeing how people find out these things like how clouds are created and what not, but, in essence, are STILL wrong about everything because they are unable to explain how the hell stuff, well, existed. If they could explain that, I'd be more inclined to agree with them.

AND another thing! Who's to say what's right and what's wrong? Religion has been proven to drive people mad, send 'em out on Crusades/Jihads and kill off EVERYONE who didn't think like them. Science has just sped up that process, and given a new target. What's so funny ('bout peace, love, and understanding?)

I bet I didn't make any sense. Oh, and, I'M ALIVE.

[Edit: Those who get the reference at the end get a 'Sex Cookie', and those who don't die. Oh, and, Well, whatever...]
Edited by Hadrix, Mar 12 2009, 03:37 PM.
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