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Knowledge, Power, and Religion
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 6 2009, 09:31 AM (234 Views)
Post #1 Apr 6 2009, 09:31 AM Craggon
Taken a few beliefs as well as some famous quotes, I have compiled a question:


  • "Knowledge is power."
  • "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."
  • The belief that God knows everything and is infallible, thus has absolute knowledge of everything.
  • (Also technically the belief that God is an all powerful being, but go with the first three)


So, following this line of thought one could deduce that if knowledge is power and power corrupts, then knowledge corrupts. Following the same line of thought if one has alsolute power (knowledge), then they are absolutely corrupted. So if God really has absolutely knowledge and power, would he/she/it not be absolutely corrupt?

Just an idea I had floating around my cranium.
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Post #2 Apr 6 2009, 10:00 AM NocturnalKnight
I disagree.

I could answer in several ways, but I'll start with this one.

"Knowledge is power." - Not quite. Having knowledge simply means that you know something. Whatever measure of power you gain from simply knowing something is dependent partially on what you know. While it is true that knowing certain things can grant a considerable edge (such as knowing a cheat code in a game, as a trite example), that knowledge is useless without the traits/skills/competence/etc., to put that knowledge to use. Though I will agree, that knowledge is a major element (and I expect someone to say that part of being able to put knowledge to use can involve more knowledge), my only case on this point is that there are other elements. Say someone knew of an impending attack, but either did not have the means to prevent it, or simply didn't do anything about it (in the case of said person being the target of the attack, in a situation where there is little for him to accomplish by allowing the attack to succeed).

"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." - I would argue that this is not entirely true. Before I continue, I want to bring up another quote alongside this.

"Crime is the result of desire, plus oppurtunity."

Let's consider that a person has the desire to commit a certain crime. Let us add to this scenario that if they had power (knowledge if you wish), they would have the oppurtunity. If the person already had the desire, then they were already corrupt (I think we can agree that criminal acts are corrupt acts, though I imagine that someone is going to say otherwise). Let's compare this to someone else that already has the oppurtunity, but does not have the desire. This person has knowledge/power, and yet, does not have the desire to use it in an abusive manner. Is this not a non-corrupt pattern?

Case-in-point: it is not the power that corrupts, it is the one with power gained that already harboured corrupt desires in secret.
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One who yearns...
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"You call it tyranny, I call it justice. If truth is merely in the eye of the beholder, then it may be evil to you, but for me, there is nothing wrong with what I am doing. So tell me; do you still favor that pattern of thought?"

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Post #3 Apr 6 2009, 10:08 AM Craggon
I'll give you some of that, yes. As to your last statement not necessarily would they have to harbor them in secret, but I get what you're saying.

Well, not everyone is as good as they would like others to believe. Some or most cannot control thoughts of actions of certain sorts. Now this is not to say that everyone is corrupt inside, for I do not believe that everyone is born evil. Nor am I saying people can't control whether or not they will commit a corrupt deed on such a level that it will require intervention by the authorities, but no one is completely pure.

Yes, there are plenty of quotes for and against this sort of debate, but that's what makes it so fun. Every quote is not necessarily a truth just because someone said it and it became famous and widely used, but it gives greater insight into possibilities, and leaves seeds that grow into a bigger question or possibly even answers to questions.

Being agnostic and not wishing to change anytime soon, I ask this merely from an analytical standpoint. I don't want to say there is or isn't an all powerful diety, or that he/she/it is or isn't all powerful, or corrupt or perfectly good. I just like to analyze things from a statistical and informational standpoint. Any other input and good quotes that may pertain to this would be welcomed.
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Post #4 Apr 6 2009, 10:51 AM NocturnalKnight
In regards to your comment on my last statement, I understand that they would not have to be secret desires (I have already re-read my post and found several such errors, but decided to leave it be, I think there are people here that are perceptive enough to notice). I would add, though, that what people describe as an example of someone being corrupted by power, may actually be someone revealing their true nature.

"Now this is not to say that everyone is corrupt inside, for I do not believe that everyone is born evil."

I would actually disagree here, though I am already well-aware that someone is going to disagree with me on what is or is not evil/corrupt. You said that no one is completely pure. The opposite of purity is corruption. Any level of corruption, is still corruption.

"Nor am I saying people can't control whether or not they will commit a corrupt deed on such a level that it will require intervention by the authorities..." I hope not. An extension of the idea that people are not responsible for their actions, is that they should not be punished harshly. Already, substantial amounts of leniency have been granted to people who clearly committed serious crimes. I believe there was a murder trial in which two boys that mentally and physicially tortured a younger child before killing him. Their defense-attorney argued that it wasn't their fault that they did it, it was the environment. (My apologies though, I think that is another topic altogether, so I will leave that issue at that for now.)

"I just like to analyze things from a statistical and informational standpoint." That can be a good thing. It can allow one to prepare for various scenarios, or get a grasp of the position one's opponent is taking (be it a debate or otherwise). I am going to leave the post as is now, for I managed to distract myself quite a bit while typing the second paragraph...
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"You call it tyranny, I call it justice. If truth is merely in the eye of the beholder, then it may be evil to you, but for me, there is nothing wrong with what I am doing. So tell me; do you still favor that pattern of thought?"

Current RP: MegaWar: Inception of Discord

Previous RP's: (N/A)
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Post #5 Apr 6 2009, 05:21 PM LonerMan
I'm sure some of us can get our ideas across without writing entire pages, no?
Anyways, I would correct the "Knowledge is power" saying to something more along the lines of "Knowledge grants the opportunity for power," And I would modify the statement "Power corrupts" to say that power generally leads to one seeking to either enhance or increase that power, but if someone is using that power with good or at least beneficial intentions, they are simply bringing order to that which needed improvement. The cases in which power leads to corruption is when people seek non beneficial or detrimental means to accomplish their goals. Oh and as God is supposedly an all powerful being, it would have no goal of its own. As far as I understand it, God is merely in place to provide lesser creations with the means of having and working towards goals.

Not that I particularly believe in God myself.
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Post #6 Apr 6 2009, 05:25 PM Deleted User
Power is Corruption.
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Post #7 Apr 6 2009, 06:02 PM Scorp
Power is not corruption. Power is the ability to make a difference. Even if it leads the weak individuals to more 'corrupt' lives, the strong take power and make good use of it.

liek m3. :D
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