Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We have one game taking sign ups right here!
Welcome to Scumhunt. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join Scumhunt, you'll be able to take part in the Mafia games that go on here. Signing up is free to do; just click the link below.


Join Scumhunt!


If you're already a member, please log in to your account to check up on your Mafia games:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Rules & Mechanics; A forum to discuss the rules games have and those we should have.
Topic Started: Sep 15 2011, 06:03 AM (730 Views)
TalonJay
Member Avatar
Third Party Partier
[ *  *  *  *  *  * [
The standardized rules for each game sets not only what players can expect from each other, but also what they can expect from the GM and in turn what the GM can expect from players. However tested the rules and mechanics we have in place now are, there's always room for improvement. Ways to make games more enjoyable and ways to make communication much smoother.

That's what this thread is for. A place where we can discuss the rules and hash out the ideas that could apply to not just one game, but all games.

To kick off I'd like to introduce a concept I talked to Shadow about a little and it's something I'm aiming to introduce properly when I run a game later this year. I've noticed that in some games, particularly in games where there are passive abilities reacting to active ones, a bit of an issue when it comes to determining precedence. i.e. When to abilities clash, what occurs first.

So the solution I came to when mulling over the problem is setting up a "Speed" Ranking system for abilities. The idea is to have something in place where in most given situations when two abilities would interact with each other you can notate which ability "wins" without having to specifically state it. It's something that would amount to little more than proper notation in most games, but would be essential under the right circumstances. Taking into account that the day lynch tends to occur before most actions and the night lynch tends to occur after most actions, I was thinking it would look something like this.

S rank: Instant - Can be activated at any time and takes precedence above all other actions occurring this phase. Occurs before Day Lynch.
S Rank Uses


A rank: First action performed at the end of phase it is activated. Occurs after Day Lynch.
A Rank Uses


B rank: Action is performed directly after actions of exceeding rank the phase it is activated.
B Rank Uses


...Yadda yadda yadda...

E rank: Action is performed after all other actions the phase it is activated. Occurs after Night Lynch
E Rank Uses


You'll see me put this in action later while I'm trying to work out all the kinks for a game I'm going to be running in a sort of Western Gunslinger setting. Call it something like "Quick Draw!" In any case, I just wanted to propose the system to see if anybody had any other approaches or constructive criticism they wanted to bring to it. If it's something that does well enough, I could draft up a series of emoticons for the specific speed rankings, just make it really easy to use.
Offline Profile Quote Go to Top
 
bloodrayne03
Member Avatar
Accounted for.
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * [
I like it, it would make those cases where one person is targeted by a shit ton of powers in one night easier to sort out. My only problem with it is that it places yet another burden onto the host.
Offline Profile Quote Go to Top
 
Shadow31
Member Avatar
Resident source of chaos
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * [
It depends on the system really. In the mass swarm event, thus could easily make things simpler. Let's say Doctor is a B-class role. "Oh, all but roles X and Z are C-E class! I can ignore those!" as opposed to working out each role separately.
Offline Profile Quote Go to Top
 
bloodrayne03
Member Avatar
Accounted for.
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * [
I mean more in the set-up of the game. It adds another balancing step. If it's for something like a faction game with tons of PRs, it'd probably be worth it to get that out of the way at the start. For most games though, with only a few PRs, I don't think it'd be that required.
Offline Profile Quote Go to Top
 
Nyon
Member Avatar
Soon.
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * [
I know I'd probably use this system with my games. Setting priority for roles is very helpful.

Hell, having a role that LOWERS or HEIGHTENS another role's priority could also be added to add another level to the gameplay.

Doc saved the Killer's kill? Not when the Booster visited the Killer first!
Offline Profile Quote Go to Top
 
Shadow31
Member Avatar
Resident source of chaos
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * [
Oh, that would be amazing Nyon.

DO EET. NAO.
Offline Profile Quote Go to Top
 
LordQ
Member Avatar
Warrior through time
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * [
Hmm, the rules I'm about to suggest are not by any chance new - they have been used by me and a few others for a long time. I merely recommend that they be used to a greater degree.

1) Set the day phase to a certain length, generally 24 hours. As in, don't end the day phase due to whatever conditions you have on it. This prevents 6 hour phases that quite often match up perfectly with the sleeping periods or busy periods of one or more players. This also enables the Cop, who may or may not easily be one of these unable to be active players, to get on the thread and talk.

2) Have it so that a majority is not required on a lynch for it to go through. Only the most votes on the lynch are required. This prevents raging when there are silly situations like there being 1 vote less than that required for a majority, and also works extremely well with faction games.
Offline Profile Quote Go to Top
 
Syrassil
Member Avatar
Brooding master of inactivity.
[ *  *  *  *  *  * [
I am going to sticky this topic. It seems interesting enough, so we could use some more publicity on this.
Offline Profile Quote Go to Top
 
LordQ
Member Avatar
Warrior through time
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * [
For hosts, I've noticed a host or two giving out the results of night actions before the night phase is up to investigative powers. This should not be done. As, first of all, this prevents the player from deciding to investigate someone else, and second, means that the player can communicate their findings before the night phase is up. The second point is unwanted as this makes it impossible for a mafia to actually silence a cop.
Offline Profile Quote Go to Top
 
Aviana
Member Avatar
Replay Official
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * [
Right, so this has come up lately.

How do we define "playing for your own faction"?

I generally go by if it's not directly harmful to your faction, then whatever. A cop telling his investigations to a known mafia member and acting like this mafia member is cleared would definitely fall under this. The thing that's come into question recently is a faction delaying their win to help a third party out. I don't really see delaying a victory to help a third party as a bad thing. But some discussion on this might be useful.
Also, lately more of an issue has been made of the 24-hour day phase. On one hand, if a player in the wrong time zone gets a lynch started on them too late, they can't show up and do anything about it. On the other hand, if the day phase goes on until everything gets sorted out, it tends to get really long and stall out a bit at times. (I'm going based off of Riku's Nuzlocke game. That thing has been going on for like, a month. >_>) Additionally, it is more difficult to consider if you have time enough to see a whole game through if there's not set limits on how long phases take.

Those are my thoughts. Feel free to discuss.
Edited by Aviana, Jul 13 2012, 07:56 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Go to Top
 
Gath
Member Avatar
It sure is lonely...
[ *  *  *  *  *  * [
I think delaying a win is fine, as long as you are sure you will win. We had an amazing upperhand in the FF game, and could have won earlier without a problem, but decided to allow blood to win with us because we had the numbers advantage at all times.

On the other hand, about phase durations, I think 24 hours is fine, an extension to 48 hours is fine too, but I would rather it not to be instantly closed at 48 hours and instead, a warning of 6 hours left to be placed at like 42hours or just after 48 hours. My game had been closed literally 5 minutes before I got on a computer to update it.
Offline Profile Quote Go to Top
 
Aviana
Member Avatar
Replay Official
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * [
Oh, that wasn't the issue that we were talking about, Gath. xD We could try to give hosts a few hours of warning before we close a game, I suppose, but generally I don't even notice until it's overextended.
Offline Profile Quote Go to Top
 
DannyTurtle
Member Avatar
The Worst with Babies

>You must play for your faction. There is no trolling games by deciding to work for the mafia even if you're a villager.
This is the standard don't play against your faction rule, giving out information as cop to a mafia member, going behind the scenes as a villager and giving the mafia info, voting for a clear player/cop, is all playing against your faction.
BUT
> You cannot play in a way that is purposely detrimental to your faction.
This is a variant of the rule that is used most often used in games.
If your side could win, and you decide to instead not vote for either the mafia, or in faction games, for the other factions, that is detrimental to your faction.
Making your chances of winning drop is detrimental to your faction no matter how you look at it. In the faction game it went from a 100% win, down to 'if the third party role decides to joint win with us' which is a lot less than 100%


On the subject of extending phases, I put forward a suggestion that a lynch can't go through until 24 hours after the initial vote, I think this gives everybody plenty of time to put forward a defence and get online. Night phases would stay at 24 hours which would shorten the games by quite a bit compared to Riku's.

Time spent in day phase - 8 - 5 days have passed, currently on day 6
Time spent in night phase - 13 - 5 nights have passed

If you drop each night phase down to 24 hours then Riku's game would have been over quite a while ago, taking about the same time as a slightly larger standard game.
So in this case I don't think that it would affect the length of games too much.
Offline Profile Quote Go to Top
 
bloodrayne03
Member Avatar
Accounted for.
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * [
In a case where your win and another parties win aren't mutually exclusive, I don't see why you wouldn't wait, so long as you can retain control over the situation. There was no night kill, and Rebels controlled the lynching. The chances of their victory in no way diminished over the course of the extended phases.

As for day phases, I think the best solution might just be to just play it like EM. Lynch goes through and day ends only after everyone votes (or a certain time period after the most recent votes has been placed, after which inactives are killed).
Offline Profile Quote Go to Top
 
Zephyr
Member Avatar
God of Detective Work, Amateur Scientist
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * [
The admins will be discussing the day phase issue. We'll have a ruling to you soon.

The ruling on the playing for your faction rule will stand. That rule was established to prevent game-trolling. The Rebels' actions might have reduced their overall chances of victory slightly, but they had the intention of winning the whole time. Whether or not they chose to help a third party win as well has no relevance to the matter. If someone does something stupid that benefits the mafia, but meant to help the village, that is not playing against their faction. That's just being stupid.

It should be noted that Epic Mafia has a points system that makes joint wins less palatable to everyone. If that system were in place here, the rebels would have surely cut everyone else out of the loop and taken the victory for themselves. If you'd like a similar system to be put into place, you should discuss it here.
Offline Profile Quote Go to Top
 
Zephyr
Member Avatar
God of Detective Work, Amateur Scientist
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * [
We've discussed the day phase problem. We agree that the time limit for the day phase has been a problem in the past, both in faction and non-faction games. We've decided upon a solution.

There shall be no intrinsic time limit established for the day phase in any game, faction or non-faction. However, there shall be a 12-hour time limit set from the last vote in the thread. If there are no votes for 12 hours, then the day phase is over and all those who have not posted or PM'd the host will be removed for inactivity. Whether the lynch goes through or not is up to the host's rules on majority votes and whether or not a majority is required.

The night phase shall remain with a 24 hour time limit. Roles who have night actions MUST PM THE HOST EVERY NIGHT WHETHER OR NOT THEY USE THEIR POWER. Those who do not do so will be removed from the game and warned for inactivity on the first offense.

That is all.



Edit: Obviously this was changed later, but this thread was neglected in updating. Day phases are now 48 hours, as the system detailed above proved too advantageous for the village. - Aviana
Edited by Aviana, Jan 19 2014, 04:52 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Go to Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · Game Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply