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Scumhunt Games - Scumville Side: Round 2 [COMPLETED]; Game over!
Topic Started: Jan 28 2012, 12:24 AM (2,935 Views)
Odothegreat
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The Face that Inspires Trust
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Very well. As Talon has not changed his vote, I must, in order to remain alive. *Sigh* At least it's a two way tie still.

Unvote: Talon.

Vote: Zephyr.

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bloodrayne03
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Accounted for.
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Nyon
 
In the event of a tie, nobody dies. This goes for both 2 and 3 way ties.
What exactly is the point of Skill/Heart's secondary power then?
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Nyon
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Soon.
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That was also brought up and will be phrased better next round.

Essentially, if the Heart player is involved in the tie, the player who is tied with him will die and he will not.
ONE HOUR LEFT

GET YOUR SILLY VOTES IN
Edited by Nyon, Feb 2 2012, 05:40 PM.
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Draco12387
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Scumhunter Extraordinaire
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Vote: Talon
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TalonJay
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Representing the case. We had an incidence where there is a possibility of deception coming from two fonts and no way to manage them.

Odo/U9k's Ability(1): Talon (Case O)/Zephyr (Case Z)

U9k (1): Zephyr
Odo (1): Zephyr

Talon (1):
Draco (1):

Zephyr (2): Odo
Jiffy (-1): Zephyr


Case Zephyr
Talon (0)
Zephyr (2)
Odo (2)


Case Odo
Talon (1)
Zephyr (1)
Odo (2)

In the interest of satisfying the accusations of both sides, my colleagues vote presents this solution.

Odo/U9k's Ability(1): Talon (Case O)/Zephyr (Case Z)

U9k (1): Zephyr
Odo (1): Zephyr

Talon (1):
Draco (1): Talon

Zephyr (2): Odo
Jiffy (-1): Zephyr

Making it...

Case Zephyr
Talon (1)
Zephyr (2)
Odo (2)


Case Odo
Talon (2)
Zephyr (1)
Odo (2)

And I'll just...

Vote: Draco

...to make it...

Case Zephyr
Talon (1)
Zephyr (2)
Odo (2)
Draco (1)

Case Odo
Talon (2)
Zephyr (1)
Odo (2)
Draco (1)

So, that should be satisfactory to all. Changing your vote from this point on is punishable by death. :pac:
Sound good?
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Zephyr
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God of Detective Work, Amateur Scientist
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How much fucking TIME do you have?
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Nyon
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Soon.
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Das flavour


NIGHT 3

But more importantly.

Yes, I'll probably be doing another round of this. I will still be discussing whether or not a 3-way tie is allowed, but there's going to need to be some strong arguments for it.

As mine, I'll post one of the few rules we have written here.

Quote:
 
> If two couples remain and neither are capable of killing the other, both couples are declared as winners, but receive one less point for the win than they would normally.


Note the bold text.

I'm sorry if everyone is feeling more sympathetic to each other than me, it might be because I'm not playing this game, I'm hosting it.

I have made my point, if it sounded blunt and crude, sorry.

Nyon out.
Edited by Nyon, Feb 2 2012, 07:18 PM.
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TalonJay
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Separate from my activity in this game, as a game host, I am diametrically opposed to this statement. I know impartiality is hard to believe coming from the guy in the thick of it, but that is my impartial opinion. This isn't just a straight treaty, this is a mutual annihilation scenario all players are living in right now. It is three teams unable to kill each other on threat of their own death. To say otherwise is to coerce the game to go in a predetermined direction, which is not, I repeat not, the role of the host.

I think you're wrong.
Edited by TalonJay, Feb 2 2012, 07:28 PM.
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Nyon
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Soon.
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Okay, the topic was discussed outside the thread and a decision has been made.

I will continue this game until either one team helps another to achieve a solo victory, or until 2 teams reach a deadlock.

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TalonJay
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Basically, what's being asked of Draco and I is to lie down and admit defeat while still being active players in the game. As a player I can't abide by that. (As a host I have the exact same feelings on the topic, but those shouldn't come into it right now.)

My deal with both teams still stands, whoever wants to bail- that's your choice. It's not practical for you to do so, because you can hope that the other team will bail first and you can win by yourselves. However, now you can choose to unite and go for an easy tie.

Odo, if you're still going along with the plan, I'd like you and Under9k to use your ability on Zephyr tonight. We're going to shoot for a 3/3 tie between you and Zephyr and I'm going to balance mine and Draco's vote as if that were the case.
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bloodrayne03
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If a solo win is two points, and a tie win is one point, 3-way win would only make sense at 0 points.
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TalonJay
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Thanks for the input Blood, but it's covered ground.

We've had that discussion, and from my point of view (and maybe one or two others- it's a 3-2 split) that would be unworkable. Essentially the two points of view are like this. I'll just mention Nyon and myself since we're the most visible people here.

From my point of view the rule in question was written to cover unforeseen situations, and the one or two that we could come up with academically before the tournament started only involved two players. I authored the rule in the spirit that it would act as a catch all mitigation device for when players find ways to produce overflow errors in the mechanics of the game. This situation falling cleanly within the purview of that spirit.

Nyon's point of view has more to do with the hard and fast letter of the law. The "...two couples remain and neither are capable of killing the other..." specific aspect of it. That wording is something I deeply regret and to me serves as proof of the idea that we as game creators couldn't possibly see every possible result of the game on first play through.

My personal inclination is to reward creative play and shore up the overflow errors later. However this is not my round and Nyon seems a lot more uncomfortable with the idea.

It's my hope by continuing the game to demonstrate the merit of my argument conclusively, but the success of that tactic depends on the patience of all parties involved and to discuss it further would be to speak of game specifics during the night phase.

At the same time, this really isn't the place for this discussion. I request that every post after my last one be moved to the tournament discussion thread.
Edited by TalonJay, Feb 3 2012, 05:05 AM.
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Syrassil
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Brooding master of inactivity.
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Really, looking at it from my perspective, I'd have to say that a three-way win is impossible by the standards of the base rules of the Couple game concept. I mean, I was the one to invent it in the first place, and also designed the joint-win rule to stop dead-end games from happening.

However, I do see the problem with a group of players that all aim to cause a draw. It would end in a deadlock of infinite phases and infinite tied rounds. I disapprove of this behavior, really, but I can see why a three-way win should be possible.

So, to accomodate this style of play, why don't you incorporate this rule:

- ''Whenever, at any point during the game, the outcome of the day phase is a tie, and this continues on in the same way for at least another game, then the game will be finished at the end of thé second day in this cycle. Any remaining couples will be declared victors.''

- ''However, for each couple beyond the first, the winners will receive a point less than they would otherwise.''
Edited by Syrassil, Feb 3 2012, 04:53 AM.
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Aviana
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Replay Official
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Syrassil
Feb 3 2012, 04:51 AM
- ''However, for each couple beyond the first, the winners will receive a point less than they would otherwise.''
Can you clarify what you mean by beyond the first? What is the first here?

I'm currently agreeing with Nyon, but also in part because this is a tournament. Elimination is the code. And it's incredibly clever that you figured out how to do a three way tie, but isn't the point to get as many points as you can while keeping your opponents from getting points?

That's all I'm going to say on the subject for now.
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Draco12387
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Can I just point out that it was not known how many points a team would get for a three way tie?
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Aviana
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Draco, by that I meant more the keeping your opponents from gaining points. It was assumed by at least one individual that the rule for a single point for joint wins applied no matter how many people were involved in the joint win.
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Nyon
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Soon.
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Guys, please.

Discussion of the topic should just be moved to the main thread. And I'm not changing my decision anytime soon.
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Nyon
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Soon.
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Sorry, don't have much access to a computer, so a quick update.

DAY PHASE IS ON.
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Odothegreat
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The Face that Inspires Trust
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Ok. Nyon. Do we have a ruling on the three way tie being viable? Because I talked with Aviana and Snow and they seemed to think it is not. But that would imply someone rolling over and taking defeat. Which no one will do. SO. Can I get some info?
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Nix Machina
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Dreams of machine-men and trees and rivers...
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Nyon
Feb 2 2012, 08:23 PM
I will continue this game until either one team helps another to achieve a solo victory, or until 2 teams reach a deadlock.

There's your answer, Odo. I don't think his opinion has changed.
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TalonJay
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Alright, keeping the balance.

Vote: Odo

Odo: 1
Zephyr: 1
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Jiffy
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Tracker
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Since my post can serve no real purpose except for helping ourselves, I see no harm in casting my vote now, I dont think it will change regardless of what everyone else votes.
Vote Zephyr
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Under9000
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Over the hills and far away
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Vote: Zephyr.

Back to 1-1.
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Zephyr
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God of Detective Work, Amateur Scientist
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Really? This is just stupid. We can't continue like this forever.

Vote: Odo
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Odothegreat
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The Face that Inspires Trust
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Well, I won't exactly lie down and die myself. If you want to, go right ahead.
Vote: Zephyr.
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Draco12387
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Scumhunter Extraordinaire
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Vote: Zephyr
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Nyon
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Soon.
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I'm preemptively extending the phase for a few hours so that I can update in the morning, since I know I won't be at a computer.
Wait, I'm an idiot, you all voted.

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh

Night 4

And yes, my decision on how the phases will play out hasn't changed.
Edited by Nyon, Feb 4 2012, 03:42 PM.
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Nyon
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Soon.
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DAY 4

Pardon the extended lack of flavour.
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Under9000
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Over the hills and far away
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OK then, let's go.

Vote: Talon.
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Odothegreat
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The Face that Inspires Trust
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Sorry Talon. We need to finish this.

Vote: Talon.
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