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SSB4 ruleset discussion
Topic Started: 21/09/2014 - 07:29 am (896 Views)
Post #1 21/09/2014 - 07:29 am Mr ChristmasEve
So as of right now, tournaments are happening because of the japanese version has been released. as far as i know of the ruleset seems to be this:

No items
No custom movesets
2 stocks
5 minute timer

stage list I do not know yet. assuming all stages in FD form=fair game. battle field, smashville, final destination are all fair game.


now, as were not part of them, from the games you guys are playing in your demos, what are your thoughts? also, after learning how the custom movesets work. I would be for them in tournaments but they must be announced before. as the custom movesets only go for the special moves (b moves) and you have an option of 2. one example is bowser, who's custom moveset allow him to either have his up b which will either be more vertical, with less horizontal, or less vertical with more horizontal. some of them might be OP, we don't know yet, theres just a list of their names right now, not all of them have their descriptions yet
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Post #2 21/09/2014 - 12:58 pm Sora Izumi
From the demo i have noticed this: The game is alot faster than brawl. It's not as floaty, combos are more fluid, and the speed is in general faster. However, the blast lines seem to be quite stretched out. Then again, I've only played on battlefield.

I'm thinking we should retain the brawl ruleset and have custom moves be fair game.

Now if only we could use the Mii fighters

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Post #3 21/09/2014 - 05:48 pm Pidgey
No custom moves should never and will never be fair game. If we want consistency between tournaments we need to rule this out. I don't want wins to happen because one guy had a better character made than another. That's not how fighters work in tournaments. That would be crazy...

Also, is there a reason for there to only be 2 stocks? I do feel like it is harder to kill, but I thought that was because im just not as good yet lol.
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Post #4 21/09/2014 - 06:49 pm Sora Izumi
What if we had the 3ds game be custom oriented, and the Wii U version is strictly default?

That would at least offer some variety to it rather than just stages.
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Post #5 21/09/2014 - 09:10 pm Heropon Cloud
From what I'm hearing, the general populace wants custom moves to be legal, atleast with the 3ds version.

Also Pijy, having a better set of custom moves is just like counterpicking characters. So if you know a characters is weak to a certain other character, but you have a custom moveset that works better for the fight, then it seems to me like it just adds another layer of complexity to it. Also the two stock five minutes is a carry over from the For Glory mode. People saw it and it made sense with how long kills were taking, and the want to shorten tournament times, so that we don't get kicked out of venues before the Grand Finals have happened.
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Post #6 22/09/2014 - 01:25 am SHS_JJEmpire
Pidgeot
21/09/2014 - 05:48 pm
No custom moves should never and will never be fair game. If we want consistency between tournaments we need to rule this out. I don't want wins to happen because one guy had a better character made than another. That's not how fighters work in tournaments. That would be crazy...
Honestly, I think that if people won by "having the better character", strict tiers would be more of a thing here at SHS. If custom moves are as Xeelt describes them to be, then at best, they'd add another layer of strategy to the game, and at worst, they'll provide more variety to fight against. Right now, I'd be shocked if they end up being banned; the whole concept sounds pretty reasonable so far.

ThunderCloud
 
Also the two stock five minutes is a carry over from the For Glory mode. People saw it and it made sense with how long kills were taking, and the want to shorten tournament times, so that we don't get kicked out of venues before the Grand Finals have happened.
Considering how long some of our bigger Brawl tourneys took, I actually wouldn't mind something like this. Plus, if they become shorter in general, people may consider coming by for the long haul more often.

Heropon Sora
 
What if we had the 3ds game be custom oriented, and the Wii U version is strictly default?
To be honest, I don't like the idea. It wouldn't be considered variety to limit variety in one game. If we allow custom moves for one version, it should be allowed for both versions,
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Post #7 22/09/2014 - 02:08 am Yuri Lowell
I didn't even think you could bring custom moves online?
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Post #8 22/09/2014 - 02:32 am SHS_JJEmpire
Yuri Lowell
22/09/2014 - 02:08 am
I didn't even think you could bring custom moves online?
I think that was about how you can't use custom moves in random online matches, but you're able to use them in online matches with friends. I'm not certain, however.
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Post #9 23/09/2014 - 12:53 am Nevrast
After watching NinjaLink's demos of custom moves, I've changed my opinion on them. I think they should be legal. Most are customizable in similar ways, like projectiles being piercing. A lot of customization looks impractical too, and there's not that many sets between characters, further limiting it - shouldn't be hard to learn when you're playing against that character.
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Post #10 23/09/2014 - 01:04 am Heropon Cloud
I think the limitation of custom moves comes about from the fact that when you go to a tourney irl, you dont always have your own setup, and so you'd have to customize every single match which is a little unreasonable time management wise. Here on SHS it might work since we have our own consoles and it'd be our own preferences.

I think we should prolly experiment with the 3ds version and see how we like the custom moves. I am doubtful of being able to play dubs on the 3ds so I would prolly move towards custom moves/ no custom moves tourneys for the first trial bit and see how we like them after we've had some hands on time with the game.
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Post #11 23/09/2014 - 02:58 am Sora Izumi
The thing I do know is this. It WILL take forever in real life tournaments to get everyone's customs all set up. I was thinking that the transfer tool that allows you to transfer a 3ds built character to the wii u might speed this up but until we know more, its hard to say. But being that the 3ds is a personal system, custom moves should be no problem at all to implement.
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Post #12 23/09/2014 - 12:42 pm Oso
I am for the 2 stocks 5 minute time limit. If we did 3 stocks then the matches would take forever.

I think custom movesets should be allowed. They put them in the game to add another layer of competition to it, so why remove them for our tournaments? That would be like telling everyone they have to use the same kart in MK7/MK8 or limiting certain pokemon to certain movesets.
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Post #13 23/09/2014 - 01:54 pm Nate.ExE
so this customization thing confuses me, isnt there 2 characters that the whole thing is based around. so wouldnt they be banned to?
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Post #14 23/09/2014 - 02:31 pm Heropon Cloud
Every Character has 2 other forms to each of their moves. They just put in Palutena and Mii Fighters as the examples at E3.

Remember they showed mario with his different fireballs in the original trailer showing off custom moves?
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Post #15 23/09/2014 - 05:45 pm Mr ChristmasEve
I'm going to put in some text on certain characters custom moves, I won't do them all because theres 45 non copy characters and some characters only have their moves names announced (rosalina), and others don't even have them announced (charizard)

bowser


Neutral special - Fire Breath: Bowser breathes intensive fire that gradually gets weaker.
Custom 1 - Fire Ball: A large fireball with noticeable startup lag that appears to go through enemies.
Custom 2 - Flash Fire: Stronger than Bowser's Fire Breath but loses range quickly.
Side special - Flying Slam: Bowser's side special from Brawl. Bowser grabs an opponent, jumps with them into the air, and thrusts himself downward opponent-first, dealing immense vertical knockback.
Custom 1 - Dashing Slam: Bowser dashes forward and slam someone with less vertical distance.
Custom 2 - Koopa Klaw: Bowser slashes opponents instead of grabbing them. Based upon his previous Side Special in Super Smash Bros. Melee.
Up special - Whirling Fortress: Bowser enters his shell and spins rapidly, being able to move forward and backwards while doing so. It acts as a recovery when performed in the air, propelling Bowser forward and upwards, but Bowser remains grounded when he performs it on the ground.
Custom 1 - Rocket Fortress: Increased vertical distance at cost of horizontal.
Custom 2 - Fast Fortress: Increased horizontal distance.
Down special - Bowser Bomb: Bowser leaps into the air, hitting any opponents up with him in the vicinity of the leap, and then thrusts his body downwards in a ground pound motion, dealing immense vertical knockback to anyone hit. If performed in the air, Bowser thrusts down immediately instead of leaping first.
Custom 1 - Vortex Slam: Pushes away anyone next to Bowser's landing spot.
Custom 2 - Quake Slam: Makes those standing near Bowser trip when he lands.

bowsers downspecial doesnt seem to lose anything atleast text wise from this, unless it doesnt make them get knocked up when theyre hit. but all his other 3 seem perfectly fine imo.


Mario


Neutral special - Fireball: Mario fires a weak, bouncy ball of flames is shot from his hand as a projectile.
Custom 1 - Fast Fireball: Mario quickly fires a ball of flame as if a shot from the Ray Gun. It does not bounce on the ground.
Custom 2 - Fire Orb: a slow but large orb of fire is launched from Mario's hand. It will damage any opponent it hits in its predetermined path until it fades away, because unlike the other two variants of Fireball it does not disappear upon impact.
Side special - Cape: Mario swings a defensive cape that reflect projectiles. It can also be used as a brief but continuously available recovery.
Custom 1: Shocking Cape: seemingly an offensive variant of Cape that shoots electrical damage.
Custom 2: Gust Cape: seemingly, Mario will shoot small gusts of wind from his cape. It is unknown whether it is offensive or defensive.
Up special - Super Jump Punch: Mario performs an upward punch that releases aesthetic coins from those it hits.
Custom 1: Super Jump: seemingly a recovery giving more distance than the standard Super Jump Punch, at the cost of not having a hitbox.
Custom 2: Explosive Punch: a much stronger recovery move that causes explosive fire damage instead of releasing star coins.
Down special - F.L.U.D.D.: Mario pulls out F.L.U.D.D. from Super Mario Sunshine, which will blast jets of water to push back opponents, but not damage them.
Custom 1: Scalding F.L.U.D.D.: the jets of water fired now emit steam as well. It deals rapid fire damage that keeps the enemy in place. Only the first few hits of this move have been shown and it is unknown if it has any knockback or not.
Custom 2: High-Pressure F.L.U.D.D.: it is unknown how it will function, but the naming implies that the water will push back foes further than the normal F.L.U.D.D.

with mario, only his up b's 2nd custom and his fire balls 2nd custom seem broken depending on how they work. (up b should have less recovery ability than his normal one at the cost of knock back) and depending on how strong the b is, it should maybe have a charge or be exceptionally slow, or it will be strong. (b, jump b again, double jump b again, and theoretically they just have to sit in shield)


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these are the only 3, most people im looking at dont have them announced yet..




edit: I also learned about something that i forgot was mentioned there is "equipment" in this game where you can increase a characters damage/speed/knockback at the cost of other things. (and pretaining to the "if custom moves can be used online" these buffs can be used online (ive seen a video with an all damage/knockback gannon that ran so slow the dude chose to roll everywhere) so I assume custom movesets can also be used online.) and I am 100% against using these equipments in tournaments. changing a characters move to a specific move seems fine as long as that new specific move doesnt seem impratical, but customizing their strengths to a new number seems impractical when a bowser/ganon can be looking for the kill 20-30% before normal and you dont realize that youre actually going to die.
Edited by Mr ChristmasEve, 23/09/2014 - 05:54 pm.
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