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| "Legacy" and "Covenant" | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Fri May 21, 2004 6:01 am (234 Views) | |
| Renee | Fri May 21, 2004 6:01 am Post #1 |
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Don't mess with JS
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Now that we've seen "Covenant," a couple of lines from "Legacy" make a little more sense and stand out as pretty important. Jonathan: "I don't know how to protect you any more." Clark: "That's not your job. Your job is to teach me how to protect myself." I think this is REALLY important. Clark is stuck wherever he is at the mercy of an evil biological father. All he has is the memory of what Jonathan and Martha taught him. I think these memories are going to be crucial as he stands up for himself and what he knows is right. He may have the power to rule the world, and that may be all that matters to JE, but Clark knows better, thanks to his REAL father. So Jonathan DID teach him to protect himself when it was most important. (Ooh, JS Home Depot commercial just came on again! :) (Takes a break to listen) I am SO pathetic, you guys!! :blush: Okay (clearing throat), back to the topic at hand. . . .) When Clark wants to know what the deal is -- Jonathan: "That's not your concern. . . . I taught you to take responsibility for your own decisions. Why don't you let me take responsibility for mine?" I just thought that was important because it confirmed (as if we needed confirmation) that Jonathan never had ANY intention of keeping that promise. If he had, it most definitely would have been Clark's concern. But Jonathan had made the decision and he was taking the responsibility -- i.e., letting JE do whatever he wanted to him (Jonathan) to keep Clark safe. It's kind of interesting how it all tied together! |
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| Whitetiger4 | Fri May 21, 2004 8:49 am Post #2 |
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Smallville Tigress... On the Prowl! *GROWL*
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Actually, (oh, yer gonna hate me for saying this) Jonathan saying that the deal was not Clark's concern sounds even worse now! It was most definately Clark's concern. It was about him! Okay, sorry. I'm just really miffed about this deal thing. I just don't see how Jonathan could make a deal like that whether or not he intended to follow thru or not!! I agree with what you said about him not knowing how to protect Clark anymore, tho. That does make sense. |
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| Jonathan Fan | Fri May 21, 2004 8:53 am Post #3 |
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Unregistered
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That thought about the deal crossed my mind too. Jonathan should have told Clark the deal when it happened instead of keeping quiet. Jonathan and Clark could have dealt with it as it came intsead of Jonathan looking bad in front of his wife and son for making a weak decision. |
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| Whitetiger4 | Fri May 21, 2004 8:56 am Post #4 |
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Smallville Tigress... On the Prowl! *GROWL*
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Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way. Don't get me wrong I still love Jonathan, but that was bad. I guess we don't know how we'd react since we aren't in a situation like that, but I think he could have handled it better. We all make mistakes tho. |
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| Smallvillian | Fri May 21, 2004 9:09 am Post #5 |
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Jonathan's Lady
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Personally, I completely understand Jonathan. Jor-El is a disembodied energy. I'm sure he never expected anyone to come knocking at his front door. From Jonathan's PoV he was only risking himself. He said he was buying time by making the deal and probably never imagined JE could actually *take* Clark anywhere. Where could he take him, even if he wanted to? As long as it was on Earth, they could find him. He just didn't know about the whole black void thing. He thought JE wanted Clark out of SV and if he could buy Clark enough time, time to become an adult, Clark would probably leave SV anyway and would be more equipped to deal with JE at that time. Remember that Jonathan also knows Clark grows more powerful with age. If JE had said "Bring me the tooth fairy and I'll give you the power" Jonathan would have said yes. He would have said yes to anything to save Clark and then deal with the consequences later, taking them on himself. He would never have told Clark. He wouldn't have wanted Clark to feel responsible and he wouldn't put that burden on him. That's just not Jonathan. :) |
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| Whitetiger4 | Fri May 21, 2004 10:35 am Post #6 |
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Smallville Tigress... On the Prowl! *GROWL*
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I just don't like the fact that he promised JE Clark, then tells Clark the deal doesn't concern him. I think that was poor judgement on Jonathan's part and very unfair to Clark. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is my opinion. I mean sure, if he'd have promised something else then had to deal with it fine, but anyway you look at it, he wasn't just risking himself. This affected Clark as well, and in a very big way. He should have told him. Or better yet, not made a deal like that at all. I wonder if part of the reason Jonathan didn't want to tell Clark is becasue he was afraid Clark would be upest or feel betrayed by him. (Which in my opinion, Clark has every right to be.) I still love Jonathan, but I think he made a huge error in judgement. |
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| Renee | Fri May 21, 2004 11:05 am Post #7 |
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Don't mess with JS
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I'm with Smallvillian on this one. (No surprise there -- we share a brain, remember?) But Suz, we could never hate you! Unless, of course, you turned to the Dark Side and became completely anti-Jonathan. Then I'm afraid you would have to be SEVERELY punished. Let's see, who had the bat last? :evil: But seriously, I wasn't totally happy with what the deal turned out to be either. I would rather it had been something that affected only Jonathan directly. (Of course, even that would have affected Clark and Martha indirectly.) It's true that this would have reflected better on the character. But he would have gone along with whatever the deal was (even the Tooth Fairy :D ), because he was absolutely desperate -- his kid was on a crime spree and was capable of hurting people very badly -- and, as he said, he believed he had no other choice. And once it was done, then he made every effort in his power to take all the consequences on himself. Should he have told Martha and Clark? Possibly. I'm sure they would have preferred it. But it would have been very hard to tell them. As you suggest, Suz, part of it probably was that he was ashamed to have them know. But I also believe that what he told Martha was true -- that he couldn't bear for her (and Clark) to worry about it when it might not ever happen. And there's another factor as well -- how could he let Clark find out that his (Jonathan's) health problems were caused by JE trying to enforce the deal Jonathan had made to save Clark? Even if he didn't say so, Clark would probably guess, and go straight off and offer himself to Jor-El. He almost did that in "Legacy," even without knowing what the deal was, and would have succeeded if Lionel hadn't walked in on him. Jonathan couldn't have that happen. A line of Martha's (from "Whisper") comes to mind here -- he needs to start depending on other people more. In even more ways than Martha meant -- emotionally as well as physically. I wouldn't be surprised if they get more into this in season 4. Jonathan is a leader and a protector, and that's a good thing. But he needs emotional support, now more than ever, and this would be a good time for him to start learning to take from his family as well as give to them. |
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| Whitetiger4 | Fri May 21, 2004 11:20 am Post #8 |
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Smallville Tigress... On the Prowl! *GROWL*
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Oh, don't worry Renee, I could never turn on Jonathan! I love the man and wish he was my dad! But I just think he was wrong here. I do see what you are saying here, That is a very good point about What clark would do/almost did, but I still think he had a right to know. Esp after JE's warning's. I can see him keeping it to himself when it seemed like JE wasn't going to cash in, but as soon as he started in, Jonathan should have warned Clark. |
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| Smallvillian | Fri May 21, 2004 11:29 am Post #9 |
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Jonathan's Lady
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Well in Jonathan's mind it din't concern Clark. It concerned himself and Jor-el and his decision to say and promise whatever he had to, regardless of what it actually was. I know you keep coming back to what he actually promised-- "to bring Clark to JE" but did he really do such a terrible thing, really? Do we or would Jonathan have actually believed that Jor-el would never try to 'get' Clark again? I don't belive it for one moment and I don't think Jonathan really did. He thought he was buying more time, just like he said. Because whether he promised or not, JE was going to keep trying to get his way. At least with the deal Jonathan thought he could delay JE trying to disrupt their lives again and as he said he had thought he had bought them a lot more time. |
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| Jonathan Fan | Fri May 21, 2004 11:38 am Post #10 |
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Unregistered
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Something else totally made sense just now. Remember how in 'Relic" how when Jonathan says that everytime he hears the name Jor-el that he remembers that he's not his father? That they only were lucky to find Clark? Could he have been thinking of the deal just then? I know I would if I were Jonathan. |
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| Whitetiger4 | Fri May 21, 2004 11:57 am Post #11 |
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Smallville Tigress... On the Prowl! *GROWL*
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And to me, that is where Jonathan was wrong. The point is the deal did concern Clark. It was about him. Whether Jonathan intened to follow thru or not, he promised to give Clark to Jor-el. I don't see how that wouldn't concern Clark. That is what I'm saying. Clark had the right to know since the deal was specifically about him. I understand him not wanting to tell them at first so they wouldn't worry about it, but once JE started pushing the issue, Jon should have told them what was going on. Good observaton, Jonathan Fan. I kinda thought that too. |
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| kittsbud | Fri May 21, 2004 12:16 pm Post #12 |
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Paranoid Schizophrenic!!!!!
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Maybe Jonathan knew he'd made a mistake, and that's why last week he told Clark he didn't trust his own judgement anymore? Let's face it, we all make errors we sometimes regret later ;) Either way me still wuvs him :D |
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| Smallvillian | Fri May 21, 2004 4:15 pm Post #13 |
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Jonathan's Lady
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Oh I'm not saying it didn't involve Clark but I think we're thinking of it from Clark's POV, that if we were Clark, we would want to know. Where with Jonathan, his first thought is always "how would this help the situation?" And the answer is that it wouldn't. Clark knowing or even Martha would have only put on them the burden he knew only too well as he carried it alone. He didn't want to do that to them. Clark would either blame himself or outright offer himself to JE if he thought it would save his father, and as we've seen, Jonathan would have rather died first. Martha would have fretted and worried all this time which wouldn't have helped anyone either. From Jonathans'' PoV, this was between him and JE until one of them backed down and he was determined to never back down. |
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