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| Tweet Topic Started: Tue Jun 8, 2004 10:18 pm (133 Views) | |
| Smallvillian | Tue Jun 8, 2004 10:18 pm Post #1 |
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Jonathan's Lady
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I've decided to pose some questions each week...so here it goes
:) Now that we know what *THE DEAL* (dun dun dun) was, why was Jonathan behaving the way he was in "Legacy"? Was it simple depression over facing his heart attack? What exactly do you think was going through his mind during that time? |
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| Renee | Wed Jun 9, 2004 5:35 am Post #2 |
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Don't mess with JS
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I like the "dun dun dun" part. It fits the subject very well.
:) Seriously, I think once he got the signal, he realized JE was getting fed up with his stalling and time was running out. And maybe he was beginning to suspect that JE might be strong enough to overcome his resistance and force him or Clark to meet JE's demands. Hence his guilt and remorse, his not knowing what to do and longing for guidance (wishing he had his father's wisdom), and his line "I can't protect you anymore." However, as for all the opportunities he should have taken that he talked about in the barn, I have no idea what that was about. Unless it's something the writers threw in to throw us off the scent! Or, perhaps, he was certain now that he was going to die soon and was having the normal feelings and regrets that go along with that knowledge. Since he told Clark that he was going to take responsibility for his own decision, we know that he was bound and determined not to turn Clark over, and probably thought that JE would keep attacking him until he finally killed him. (Our guy is so brave and good. . . . :*( ) Here's what I want to know (if you don't mind my throwing a secondary question in here): The heart attack and all his subsequent health problems were "warnings" from JE. Most of the fans figured that out in "Covenant," and the creators have confirmed it. Was the heart attack the very FIRST warning, or did we see anything before it that might have been one? Because it was kind of drastic for a first warning, if you ask me! Sending the heart attack first and THEN signaling with the key seems to be getting things pretty much backwards. Unless (I can always find an "unless") JE was already tired of waiting in "Hereafter," and meant to kill him with the heart attack and get Clark some other way after he was gone. If that was JE's intention, he couldn't have timed it better: Jonathan was alone in the barn at night, and working with dangerous equipment to boot. If Clark hadn't happened to walk in unexpectedly, it's pretty certain Jonathan would have been out of JE's way for good. And we know Jonathan didn't seem to be surprised by the heart attack. Maybe JE had told him when they first made the deal that he would die if he didn't fulfill his end of the bargain? I do wish they'd given us more information and not left us to guess so much. I hope in season 4 they'll clear some of this up. Sorry -- you probably didn't mean for us to write "War and Peace"! :blink: But I have been giving all this some thought, and that's what I came up with. I might come up with even more later, when I've had a chance to wake up! :) |
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| Smallvillian | Wed Jun 9, 2004 6:47 am Post #3 |
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Jonathan's Lady
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The longer the better!
:) Personally, it makes me wonder what exactly JE said to him those other times. Did he play the "I'm the real father and that is MY son" card? Jonathan seemed awfully sad about that particular issue. Even when Clark out right tells him "You are my real dad," Jonathan says "no, I'm not." That seems unlike Jonathan to answer in that way. Let's take a look at his "mortality speech." I'm wondering if he's indeed feeling overpowered by JE here given that JE has in some ways cheated death where Jonathan won't. He even says JE will be around long after he's gone. He may be thinking that no matter what he does JE will win because he can't be around forever to stop him. These thoughts of death lead him to think of what he has done with his life and the regrets he has--not because of his heart attack but because if comparing himself to JE. Add that too that fact that by now he has to have figured out that JE is trying to kill him and well...I'd be depressed, too. I think you're right about the graveyard scene. He knows that deal he made and he's beginning to feel that not only is he losing an uphill battle but he has unintentionally done something that he now regrets terribly--offered Clark to JE. Even though he didn't have any intention of doing it, I can see Jonathan feeling that he is a horrible father at this moment and being disgusted with himself. And so he looks for guidance from his own father who "never would have done that." As for how many warnings Jonathan got, we only saw one but Kara said there were several so I guess we have to assume there were. Was the heart attack the first? Logically I would say no. We know how severe Jonathan's attack was. It easily could have killed him and he couldn't bring Clark anywhere if he was dead. I think he just wanted Jonathan out of the way by then. When he didn't actually die, did JE cause the condition to worsen over time? I think so. I htink he tried to use it to get his way. They released Jonathan with no talk of surgery then admit him later and by the way the doctor was talking he could have died at any moment. I doubt they would have let him leave in such a state. |
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| Renee | Wed Jun 9, 2004 10:41 am Post #4 |
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Don't mess with JS
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You make some good points. And in "Memoria," after "the worst" was supposed to be behind him, he was back in the hospital for more tests, although Clark was frustratingly vague about his condition. So JE was probably making it worse again. (Although I wonder if they would have had that happen if John hadn't had to take time off. Speculation, speculation . . . wish we could know something for certain for a change! :/ ) I'd really like to know what the other warnings were -- unless, since the murder attempts didn't work, Kara was referring to them after the fact as simply warnings. Any messages he got before the heart problems started probably didn't come from the key, or he wouldn't have been so shocked and acted so bizarre when he heard it calling him in "Legacy." (Someone on another site wrote that Martha and Clark should have put him on a leash to keep him from running off!) |
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| Smallvillian | Wed Jun 9, 2004 10:58 am Post #5 |
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Jonathan's Lady
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Well if it makes you feel better, I always assumed that in that instance he went because he was supposed to be resting and got into a knock down drag out brawl with Lionel and he probably wasn't supposed to be straining his body like that. Martha probably pestered him lol. And no, I don't think warnings were given by the key either. If you look at "Hereafter" when he says "not now, not yet" he clearly IMO took this as JE trying to overpower him and force him to do as he said but perhaps didn't expect that JE would actually try to *kill* him until the doctors gave him the bad knews about the extent of his illness. The fact that he suspected it was JE at that time makes me think that he had been told before to bring Clark to JE. |
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| Renee | Wed Jun 9, 2004 11:08 am Post #6 |
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Don't mess with JS
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I haven't a doubt of it! :lol Go Martha! It does get confusing when you start trying to figure out how the characters' motivations mesh with the writers' motivations and the actors' motivations. I probably shouldn't do it so much! :/ |
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| Smallvillian | Wed Jun 9, 2004 3:04 pm Post #7 |
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Jonathan's Lady
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I would if I were Martha! :P: Hey analysing is half the fun! :biggrin: |
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