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Some things
Topic Started: Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:23 pm (152 Views)
Smallvillian
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Jonathan's Lady
A few things:

I just spent hours updating the quote page only to have it crash and be lost :bawl: So now I have to start all over again. But during my search, two things struck me.

1)Martha had a lot to say in S3 and no one seems to remember it-- important scenes too, like the one about Clark feeling alone in "Obsession." If people don't remember them then maybe that means Jonathan's not the problem.

2) Jonathan didn't say much at all in S3. I think he just has enough presence on screen to make you *think* he did lol. Exodus and Legacy were pretty much his big moments. The rest of the time, he had just a little to say, unlike other seasons

3) There are some intersting things that stand out: Jonathan's speech in Velocity about there sometimes not being a right ot wrong and just making the decision you think is best at the time. Was he talking a bit about himself there and what he promised JE?

Or when he talks about regrets:

I don't expect you to understand any of this stuff, Clark, but I-I almost died, and I look around here and I think, what in the hell did I really accomplish (by scarificing so much when JE is going to kill him and try to take Clark anyway? This also go back to the fact that JE 'has no end' which he kind of says just before this) You're lucky, Clark. You won't ever have to face your mortality. But if you did, you'd find yourself reevaluating your choices too.

The deal? Like maybe he should have tried something else?

Clark, I don't know how to protect you anymore

Because he knows JE plans to kill him soon?


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Renee
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Don't mess with JS
So sorry to hear about your quote page troubles! :(

To take your points one at a time (and thus try to keep my scatterbrained thinking somewhat organized):

1) Excellent observation about Martha. I didn't realize that. It really did seem like we saw less of her -- maybe because she had to keep repeating the same actions so many times (e.g., looking shocked or screaming, "Claaaaaark!")? And they kept her in the background a LOT during Jonathan's medical troubles, when she should have played a really important role. I'm still mad about that. (Low-sodium turkey, indeed! :angry:)

2) "Just a little to say" -- I wonder if that's why John thought the character had become less proactive? I didn't notice that either, and wondered for a while what he was talking about. I'm not very observant. But I guess when you're the actor playing the part, you tend to notice things like having fewer lines to memorize!

3) I think you're right about the "Velocity" speech and about "I don't know how to protect you anymore." As for the "Legacy" speech in the barn, it's so cryptic that I'm still trying to figure it out. What were all those other choices he could have made? He could be talking about JE, but I still think it's difficult to see what else he could have done in that situation.

As for "I almost died," given what we know, it seems to be a substitute for "I'm dying now," since he never went all midlife crisis on us until he heard the key signaling him. (Or any of the other times on the show he almost died.) I suppose he put it that way because he couldn't come right out and say, "I'm dying now" to Clark, but it's still odd. (I wonder if the screenwriters knew exactly where they were going with this storyline when they wrote this? I've often speculated on what the original storyline was supposed to be and how and why it was changed, since the evidence seems to be pretty substantial that it WAS changed. Maybe I'll start a thread just on that one of these days!)

By the way, I think the idea of living forever and outliving everyone you ever cared about, and never seeing them again, is pretty horrific, and Clark seems to think so too. (Remember "Hourglass"?) And I would think Jonathan would be a little more sensitive to Clark's feelings on that subject -- but I guess at that point, immortality would be looking pretty good to him. (Although we never did find out how he knew Clark wouldn't have to deal with mortality. If they had a talk about it, we really should have seen it.)

Sorry -- I wrote a novel again! :blush:
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Smallvillian
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Jonathan's Lady
lol--novels are good :D

Really, I was looking through all the transcripts and was thinking "does Jonathan have *any* lines" in quite a few episodes, while Martha seemed to have a lot more than people recall, just a couple of examples: It totally forgot about her big talk with Clark about making the best choices he can to change people's lives in "Hereafter." His feelings of being alone in "Obsession." His asking whether he made the right choice about Lana in Magnetic. Those are big parent moments that would normally go to Jonathan. Then there's scolding Jonathan in "Whisper" for trying to take so much on himself and refusing help-- "You and Clark think you're supermen, well you're not!" All of these are significant scenes and pieces of dialogue and yet are apparently easily forgotten since most people think all she did was stand behind Jonathan and nod all season--which is a neat trick since he didn't say all that much for a lot of episodes, and wasn't even there for two. Again, I pose that maybe Jonathan is not the problem. Heck I totally forgot that Clark told Martha about the Clark Room. This tells me that, though people may not like everything Jonathan has to say, John creates a character that gets your attention, bit positive or negative reaction and perhaps Annette needs to do the same because her performance is not as memorable.

I'm not sure Jonathan was oblivious to the bad side of what Clark has to face. He just was saying in the best way he could that this was something he was going through that Clark can never really understand and he can't really explain it--like trying to describe colors to a blind person. You can try, but they'll never *really* understand. Gosh, I never thought about people being gone forever for Clark. That's so horrible...most religions believe in some kind of afterlife but since he'll never have one, they're gone forever. How terrible :*(

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Renee
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Don't mess with JS
I apologize for getting off-topic for a moment, but . . .

Will you look at that! We just passed the 1,000-post mark! Hurray for the LJLS and, of course, for Jonathan! :bounce:

I'll respond to your post in a bit -- at the moment I only have time for this little celebration. :D Smallvillian, yours was the 1,000th post. Your prize is, um, the satisfaction of posting the 1,000th post. Unless you can think of something better? :biggrin:
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Smallvillian
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Jonathan's Lady
:party: :bounce: :grouphug: @)~ :biggrin:
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Renee
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Don't mess with JS
What was I thinking? Of course I know the perfect prize!

Posted Image

And just for good measure:

Posted Image
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Smallvillian
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Jonathan's Lady
:blink: :drool: :biggrin: :hyper: Woohooo! ::happy dance!::
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kittsbud
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Paranoid Schizophrenic!!!!!
*Faints*

You two are so crazy! What would we do without all your wonderful observations :D And um Jon pics.....;)
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Renee
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Don't mess with JS
Sure, Dawn, try and tell us you're not just as crazy as we are. I saw that "weathered but handsome" line in your latest "Met Files" update. ;) You can't fool us!

Smallvillian, got another prize for you. I'm feeling generous today. :biggrin: Actually, though, Kim gets credit for this one. I'll give you a hint -- there are quite a few shirts missing.

http://s7.invisionfree.com/John_Schneider/...hp?showtopic=58

Dawn, I think you'd better check this one out too!
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Smallvillian
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Jonathan's Lady
The one in the ball cap... :drool: :oh: :eek: :hyper:
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