Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to SmallvilleNews. We hope you enjoy your visit.







Username:   Password:
Add Reply
QoTW 9/19/04
Topic Started: Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:42 am (106 Views)
Smallvillian
Member Avatar
Jonathan's Lady
::Jumping up and down:: Just a few more days till we finally see what happened to Jonathan.... ....er, I mean Clark. Oh, who am I kidding. I mean Jonathan! :p

So, as for our question this week--We've often been told that Hiram was a good man and that in retrorpect Jonathan sees him as a wonderful father but we're also told that they fought a great deal and did not get along for a good long while. Now, I'm one who thinks you cultivate your relationship with your children. Clark does not always obey Jonathan but they almost never really fight the way that it's implied that Jonathan and Hiram did. What do you think may have caused Jonathan and Hiram's relationship to be so different?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Renee
Member Avatar
Don't mess with JS
Smallvillian
Sep 19 2004, 05:42 AM
::Jumping up and down:: Just a few more days till we finally see what happened to Jonathan.... ....er, I mean Clark. Oh, who am I kidding. I mean Jonathan! :p

I couldn't have said it better myself. ;)

That's an excellent question -- I've actually been thinking a bit about that lately, for a story I'm just starting to plan. I'll try to sit down and organize my thoughts enough for a coherent response later today!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jonathan Fan
Can't Stay Away
In my opinion Jonathan grew up. When you're a teenager your father doesn't always understand or he has forgotten what it's like to be the ages 13-19. Also Jonathan pointed out to Clark that his grandmother said that watching Jonathan and Hiram was like watching two sides of the same coin. Both were stubborn and wanted things their way at times.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Knight/m
Smallville
I think both father & son had traits of stubbornness & pride…and they probably butted heads…in that situation it’s a no win for both of them.

I think when Jonathan married Martha she added the reality check he needed to mellow a little… I say this only because in RED, she told Jon something like (may not be exact words)…“challenging Clark is only going to make it worse” and I think he carefully thought about that and stepped back a little.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Smallvillian
Member Avatar
Jonathan's Lady
Very good answers. :D

I guess I should weigh in, huh? I've been thinking about it and here is what I've come up with. I think Jonathan's father was a lot like Jonathan--a good man who took the responsibility of family very seriously. But when Hiram told Jonathan to do something, he expected it to be done purely because he "is the father." (echoed in Red by Jonathan "...Because I am your father now get in the truck.") Now, on the surface, that seems like a perfectly fine approach but it's actually very flimsy. Just like students and a teacher, if you tell a class "do as I say because I am the teacher, " that'll get you as far as the door they'll kick you out of. You have to command not "demand" respect no matter who you are. Jonathan also once said that Hiram and he saw each other every day but they never really talked and connected. If a child feels that your interest in them goes only so far as biology, you can expect some harsh backlash. And I think that was where Jonathan was. He didn't feel that his father had any interest in him as a person and that he demanded respect from him instead of commanding it by his actions.

Now, I think Jonathan learned those lessons well. Jonathan doesn't "demand" to be listened to. He has a way about him that says "My opinion and say in a matter are important and deserve attention" just in the way he projects himself to the world--confident and grounded. And he doesn't base his authority over Clark on name alone. He bases it on respect, bond, and the relationship they've built since Clark was a baby. Add to that that Jonathan remembers what it was like to be distant with his father so he spends a lot of quality time with Clark and you have a father and son who really know each other. Clark really knows Jonathan as a man and wants to make that man proud--not disappoint him. I don't think Jonathan ever really "knew" Hiram. He was just the guy he told him what to do all the time. It's hard to want to live up to someone you don't really know.
Of course, looking back, Jonathan probably sees Hiram's side of things though still wishes that his father could have made time for him. Luckily Jonathan was wise enough to fix those mistakes with his own son.

Does that make any sense?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Renee
Member Avatar
Don't mess with JS
I said two days ago I would think up something to say about this, so I guess I'd better do it! :)

I'm inclined to the theory that they were just too much alike. Put two stubborn males together in one house and you've got potential disaster. As JF said, Jonathan may have been an immature teenager (in fact, knowing that he dated Nell, I'm almost certain of it :rolleyes: ) who had some major growing up to do before he could learn to see things from his father's point of view. And Hiram, if you go by the dates we've been given, had his son pretty late in life. So he may not have spent much time around kids or remembered what it was like to be a kid himself, and had problems relating to his son -- especially if, having been raised in an earlier time, he didn't understand why he needed to relate to him. As Smallvillian said, he was probably more a "just do it and shut up about it" kind of man.

One of the most important things about Jonathan, as I've said before, is that he learns from his mistakes. He lost his father at a pretty young age, and before they had a chance to really reconcile, and it must have been an awful shock to him. That alone probably made him grow up overnight in some ways. And it probably made him decide that he was going to make every effort to establish a strong relationship with his own child. So even though Clark is as stubborn as Jonathan is, Jonathan's parenting has ensured that they have a bond that can survive all their conflicts. (And it probably didn't hurt, either, that Clark was a "gifted" child who needed extra attention; it seems to have made Jonathan even more determined to be there for him and try to be understanding with him.)

If I can strike the personal note for a moment -- don't worry, this is going somewhere -- I've seen something like this in my own family, where every generation gets a little better at fathering. My great-grandfather, reportedly, was a tyrant. My grandfather wasn't nearly as bad; he had a legendary temper but also a very gentle side, which came out more as he got older. And my dad is a total sweetheart (though not without a bit of temper himself). My grandfather used to blow up at my dad all the time -- which actually is understandable, considering some of the stuff my dad used to pull. :biggrin: But when my dad grew up, they actually became pretty close, and my dad had tremendous respect for his father even though he wished he could have been a more "hands on" parent. ("Hands on" in a good way, I mean, because there were plenty of "hands on" every time my dad wrecked the family car or got caught smoking. :D )

This is what makes me think that if Hiram had lived longer, their relationship would have improved as Jonathan grew older and learned to recognize "his strength and his wisdom." In fact, I think it would have been really neat if Jonathan could've gone to his dad and said, for instance, "Um, Dad, we've got this kid that just arrived from outer space and we're going to try to raise him. I could really use some advice here!" That right there probably would have bonded them at least a little!

I guess I'd better stop before I write another novel. But it's a fascinating subject. I'm glad you raised the question, Smallvillian.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · The LJLS Forum · Next Topic »
Add Reply