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New Mvp Rule
Topic Started: Jun 4 2014, 07:48 PM (2,742 Views)
Squee913
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It comes to the Staff's attention that many people in the past have misunderstood who should be sent to the MVP tournament. Some teams would send whoever they felt had the best chance of winning no matter if they really deserved it or not. Others would send whoever they liked the best instead of who really earned the spot. Remember, the MVP tournament is not supposed to be taken too seriously. It is a slap stick event intended to show off the seasons best performers in a silly event where anything can happen. IF you are in it to win it, you are doing it wrong.

Now that we have actual stats, we have decided to enact a simple rule. Your highest damaging player automatically goes to the MVP. While who is an MVP is sometimes subjective, it is hard to argue that the highest damaging player is not MVP material. The MVP is not who you liked best or who you think will win. It should be the person that stepped onto the field week after week and performed best. The highest average damage is the simplest way to tell this.

Some people may not be the biggest fan of this, but this is the only way to keep teams from violating the whole point of the MVP tournament. In addition it will help to ensure we see new face at the tournament instead of seeing the same people year after year because they are good 1 on 1 fighters.

So, here is the list of everyone going to the MVP tournament:

Androids: Cell
Blades: Cyborg Tao
Buus: Kid Buu
Cold: Frieza
Derp: Dodoria
Dragonball Warriors: Nam
ED: Mid Goku
Ginyu Force: Recoome
Gohans: Teen Gohan
Majins: Majuub
Muscle: The Rosh
Nameks: Tambourine
Rugrats: Goten
Saiyans: Scouter vegeta
SSJs: End Vegeta
Vals: Fasha
Edited by Squee913, Jun 6 2014, 11:20 PM.
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Gamerjunkie
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Burnarator
Jun 10 2014, 04:32 PM
Quote:
 
The team finished with a lot of strong moves. This one is fairly logical. You won't get the same amount of average damage if you take out the opponent with a small pinch, than if you were to take the opponent out with an ultimate.

So... you're saying that chip damage is worse than burst damage? I... I don't... Damage done measures how much that character did before they died or before the match ended. Like I stated earlier.
He's saying that when a player finishes off someone that has an ounce of health left, a big move WILL contribute significantly to the player's average damage.
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Burnarator
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Gamerjunkie27
Jun 10 2014, 04:36 PM
Burnarator
Jun 10 2014, 04:32 PM
Quote:
 
The team finished with a lot of strong moves. This one is fairly logical. You won't get the same amount of average damage if you take out the opponent with a small pinch, than if you were to take the opponent out with an ultimate.

So... you're saying that chip damage is worse than burst damage? I... I don't... Damage done measures how much that character did before they died or before the match ended. Like I stated earlier.
He's saying that when a player finishes off someone that has an ounce of health left, a big move WILL contribute significantly to the player's average damage.
ah. well that might be slightly unfair if some characters didn't have B2s. Which isn't the case. Sometimes you get some more damage if you finish someone off with a B2, sometimes you don't get a little bit of extra damage. That's the nature of the game.
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Huzzahfortimelines
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You're forgetting the whole point of that stat. We are measuring how much damage that character did in a match compared to the fact that they only have 40K hp. That's why for the longest time, Tambourine was such a monster. He had some really good games and took out 2-3 people before he eventually was taken down. How is that a reflection on the other team, and not a reflection on how good that build was when nobody was expecting it? This doesn't make sense in the slightest.


Let us say that Tambourine takes out 2 characters. the rest of the the team (2 characters) will have 80.000 points of damage left. The other two characters take out 70.000 points of damage, while the last character does 10.000 points of damage. The damage counter of this match will mean that everyone did 180.000 points of damage. However, the last character used an ultimate of 16.000 points of damage, which means that that character will have done 6000 points of bonus damage. I don't understand the first sentence by the way? I thought you didn't count the amount of damage which was healed by healing potara's.

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So... you're saying that chip damage is worse than burst damage? I... I don't... Damage done measures how much that character did before they died or before the match ended. Like I stated earlier.


Could you inform me a bit more on how the damage gets counted as the match ends? Do you subtract the extra damage that a character does compared to the opponents life points?

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So instead of measuring how well a team did this season on something that we have readily available, you'd rather have a mini-tournament to determine who goes where. Which not only makes more work on Squee, but also makes it unfair due to the fact that each of those teams need to beat the other team for a second time. Squee has stated that he will never use this style of tiebreaker. So. Good luck trying to convince him to do this.


I don't really see how this is an argument. You're basically repeating what I said, stated that it can not be possible because Squee said that a tie-breaker will not happen. I may say that I will never eat paprika, but if I suddenly see a delicious bowl of paprika chips I will try one. In other words, it's a bit closed-minded to say that you will never try something even after a variation has been presented. If Squee doesn't agree with this idea, and the rest of the staff isn't too hot about it, I don't mind. However, using a source quoted by someone else that is applied in an ever changing context isn't something that I could see as an argument.

Outside of the meta however, could you explain why you think it's unfair if a team has to beat each other for a second time? Isn't that what we are already doing in the playoffs?

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you do realize the ranking system is directly correlated to how much damage they did, right? so you'd be switching an extremely accurate number for another number that is based on that extremely accurate number. I... what?


You have a point, I didn't think that one out enough. In fact, average damage in that sense could actually be useful if used in a process of elimination, rather than an absolute fact. Again, it's a rough draft, but adding average damage into that idea would be better.

EDIT:

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ah. well that might be slightly unfair if some characters didn't have B2s. Which isn't the case. Sometimes you get some more damage if you finish someone off with a B2, sometimes you don't get a little bit of extra damage. That's the nature of the game.


And that's pretty much my point. I guess it's a difference of perspective, but I perceive something as a potential extra 12.000 points of damage as an unfair advantage of the overall average damage system, rather than the nature of the game.
Edited by Huzzahfortimelines, Jun 10 2014, 04:52 PM.
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Burnarator
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We don't account for healing potaras. We on the staff, and the Z-Cast do however still compare the character's damage done to their base HP to see if that character was effective in a match. That's why Tambourine's build was so effective. Because he was able to keep a solid melee game up while throwing out a lot of B2s, while also being able to heal a lot of the damage that was dealt to him back and stay in the game. That's what makes a tanky build viable. Because they are able to last long enough to deal more damage than their baseline HP. To be able to consistantly take out at least a character's worth of damage is what you should be striving for.

We don't subtract it from the amount healed, because what would be the point? Every team has a large amount of HP regen if it's through transformations, healing B1s, or just E. Life and 2 Dende's.

Because you're proposing having to beat a team a second time to earn their division placement whereas the playoffs don't effect a team's divisional placement.

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And that's pretty much my point. I guess it's a difference of perspective, but I perceive something as a potential extra 12.000 points of damage as an unfair advantage of the overall average damage system, rather than the nature of the game.


You can view it that way all you want. But it still doesn't change the fact that sometimes you might get a small damage boost from finishing off a character with a B2. Other times you won't. It's a roll of the dice.
Edited by Burnarator, Jun 10 2014, 05:00 PM.
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Huzzahfortimelines
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Because you're proposing having to beat a team a second time to earn their division placement whereas the playoffs don't effect a team's divisional placement.


Quote:
 
You can view it that way all you want. But it still doesn't change the fact that sometimes you might get a small damage boost from finishing off a character with a B2. Other times you won't. It's a roll of the dice.


Both of these comments can be put into that highlighted section. Both solutions to this three-way tie are random, a roll of the dice as you stated, just like the league itself. However, I believe that re-doing a match, in which the teams themselves have more control in the situation they have been placed in, by doing their best to beat the opposing team(s).

In any case, I'll leave it at that. You guys make the staff, so you decide wether to do something with the idea or not. And yes, it's probably very unlikely that this situation will even happen in the foreseeable future, but it's better to talk about it now, rather than having to deal with it later down the line.
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Burnarator
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However, I believe that re-doing a match,

This still doesn't change the fact that it is unfair to all teams involved to try and grab a win. If one team's AI derps, then what then? should they get a rematch and make it even more unfair for the team that just won? Or should the match stand and the team that just lost due to derpage be put into a lower division? There is no way that any of this is fair in the slightest and I'm sure that Squee will agree with me.
Edited by Burnarator, Jun 10 2014, 05:33 PM.
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Squee913
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Fellas, there is an easy solution to this. I would leave it up to burn's expertise, but I doubt it would be that hard for the stats team to take note when bonus damage is done and correct it. For example, a character only has half a health bar left when he gets hit with an ultimate for 15,000. It is a simple matter to just record that as 5,000 damage done. We would not even have to be extremely precise. As long as we only record the approximate damage done instead of the full force of the B2, the numbers will be accurate enough to fix the problem. Since I believe that was your major beef with using average damage to determine divisions, that should take care of the problem.

As for the argument that they got higher damage because the other team tagged a lot, that is not much of an argument. I have not run the numbers but the chances that one team faced a bunch of teams that tagged a lot in their match, but not in every other match is highly unlikely. In order for the numbers to be skewed enough to matter, they would have had to face several high tagging teams that the other guy also faced but did not deal with a similar number of tags.

Even if that were the case, I still don't see a problem. If my opponent tagged more for me than for another team in my division, then I had to work harder. It's not like my team did not earn that damage. In other words, just because a team tags a lot, you are not guaranteed to have a higher average damage. You still have to earn it. My opponent could tag out till the cows came home, but if I can't bring the pain, it will not affect my average damage.
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Huzzahfortimelines
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That's a pretty good mid-way point for me. It would make the average damage statistic a lot more reliable as a source for the team's performance.
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Squee913
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Actually,after consideration, I resend that idea. Not to sound waffly, but I realize that it would be a very unfair thing to do. If my player fires and connects with an ultimate, he should get full credit for that ultimate no matter how much health is left on the opposing team. At any other point in the match, he would receive full credit for the move, so why should we penalize him at the end?

If my team finished the match with an ultimate, and your finished the match with a punch, I still did more damage and should get the higher stats. In no way shape or form, should a successful ultimate be counted the same as a punch or throw or even B2. To put this in a sports setting, if a baseball team only needs 1 run to win the game and they hit a grand-slam, they still get all four runs. It is not downgraded just because it was the end of the game.
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Huzzahfortimelines
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Squee913
Jun 11 2014, 11:43 AM
Actually,after consideration, I resend that idea. Not to sound waffly, but I realize that it would be a very unfair thing to do. If my player fires and connects with an ultimate, he should get full credit for that ultimate no matter how much health is left on the opposing team. At any other point in the match, he would receive full credit for the move, so why should we penalize him at the end?

If my team finished the match with an ultimate, and your finished the match with a punch, I still did more damage and should get the higher stats. In no way shape or form, should a successful ultimate be counted the same as a punch or throw or even B2. To put this in a sports setting, if a baseball team only needs 1 run to win the game and they hit a grand-slam, they still get all four runs. It is not downgraded just because it was the end of the game.
Yes, but what if one character were to do an ultimate that did 12000, while the other did an ultimate that did 18000 only because one was focused more on supers? If we're going by baseball comparisons, should we compare the quality of both players by how far the home-run ball went away from the pitch?
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