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New Mvp Rule
Topic Started: Jun 4 2014, 07:48 PM (2,741 Views)
Squee913
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It comes to the Staff's attention that many people in the past have misunderstood who should be sent to the MVP tournament. Some teams would send whoever they felt had the best chance of winning no matter if they really deserved it or not. Others would send whoever they liked the best instead of who really earned the spot. Remember, the MVP tournament is not supposed to be taken too seriously. It is a slap stick event intended to show off the seasons best performers in a silly event where anything can happen. IF you are in it to win it, you are doing it wrong.

Now that we have actual stats, we have decided to enact a simple rule. Your highest damaging player automatically goes to the MVP. While who is an MVP is sometimes subjective, it is hard to argue that the highest damaging player is not MVP material. The MVP is not who you liked best or who you think will win. It should be the person that stepped onto the field week after week and performed best. The highest average damage is the simplest way to tell this.

Some people may not be the biggest fan of this, but this is the only way to keep teams from violating the whole point of the MVP tournament. In addition it will help to ensure we see new face at the tournament instead of seeing the same people year after year because they are good 1 on 1 fighters.

So, here is the list of everyone going to the MVP tournament:

Androids: Cell
Blades: Cyborg Tao
Buus: Kid Buu
Cold: Frieza
Derp: Dodoria
Dragonball Warriors: Nam
ED: Mid Goku
Ginyu Force: Recoome
Gohans: Teen Gohan
Majins: Majuub
Muscle: The Rosh
Nameks: Tambourine
Rugrats: Goten
Saiyans: Scouter vegeta
SSJs: End Vegeta
Vals: Fasha
Edited by Squee913, Jun 6 2014, 11:20 PM.
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ClawedRebel
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Slightly Godlike
Huzzahfortimelines
 
Yes, but what if one character were to do an ultimate that did 12000, while the other did an ultimate that did 18000 only because one was focused more on supers?
I... What? Then that's the point of the build, the build worked and well done to that player and team? The player deserves credit for doing that much damage regardless of the situation? I don't understand. I understand even less the comparison to baseball. Damage is only analogous to runs scored up to a point. If I need a single run in cricket to win, and I get a two, I get two runs. If I hit a four, I get four. If I hit a six, I get six. There comes a point where I don't get any more runs because the rules of that game don't allow there to be any more runs for hitting the ball clean over the boundary.
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HavocTheGreat
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Former Gohan Coach
Haha wow this became a debate on the legality of stats to determine game decisions I'm personally fine with the stats the way they are even though some of ty are arrtiically inflated but regardless for a team to win the have to do damage and even though the opposing team has transformation or healing potaras like squee said before if the can do the damage then they deserve the accomplishment.
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Huzzahfortimelines
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That are inherently more awkward to use, less fair and more work? I... what?


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so you'd be switching an extremely accurate number for another number that is based on that extremely accurate number. I... what?


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So... you're saying that chip damage is worse than burst damage? I... I don't...


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I... What? Then that's the point of the build


Are we collecting these now, or is this the new trend of starting a comment? :P

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There comes a point where I don't get any more runs because the rules of that game don't allow there to be any more runs for hitting the ball clean over the boundary.


Comparing real life sports to DBZLeague really wasn't such a good idea, and I shouldn't have furthered the analogy. Same with your comparison to cricket, the context is just far too different from our current situation, because it doesn't matter wether he gets two or three runs in a winning game, because it wouldn't affect his later games, so drastically in fact, that it could stop him from entering a championship.

Finally though, I feel like stating my opinion yet again, and again, you can choose what to do with it. When the average damage of a team is largely affected by the quality of the finishing move of the team, then I feel that this system is incredibly flawed, and should be corrected.

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Now I can't say if there could be a persuasive argument to stop a decision based on highest damage for a scenario where the difference is only a few points of higher damage BUT as of right now it is, again, the fairest we can do within the system until someone brings up a better way.


And yes, you may find my idea's rubbish, that's fine of course. What I am saying however, is that I feel that the staff should at least be looking into a better solution than what we have right now. If you think what we got is the best way to deal with things, then that's that. I just hope that we won't have to let a team away from the playoffs with a difference of 10 points of damage in the future, because the possible reaction may actually, quite literally and dramatically be: "I... what?"
Edited by Huzzahfortimelines, Jun 11 2014, 12:45 PM.
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Faemles
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Naturally and Artificially Flavored
I think this has gotten quite off topic how the stats as they are now is all we have right now in determining who goes to the MVP tournament. I'd like to see the stats improved, but that is a conversation for another place. But because stats... All stats especially stats on averages can be misleading, teams should have a little wiggle room for choosing their MVP, within reason. For most teams it will be the highest average damage but if you look at the stats there are a few teams with players less than 3000 average damage apart.
Edited by Faemles, Jun 11 2014, 12:52 PM.
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Obsidianmoon
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Quote:
 
I think this has gotten quite off topic how the stats as they are now is all we have right now in determining who goes to the MVP tournament. I'd like to see the stats improved, but that is a conversation for another place. But because stats... All stats especially stats on averages can be misleading, teams should have a little wiggle room for choosing their MVP, within reason. For most teams it will be the highest average damage but if you look at the stats there are a few teams with players less than 3000 average damage apart.


This I agree with. for 90% of the players in the league, I think average damage works fine. But I don't feel this works well for every member of every team. Which is why I argued for Future Gohan over Teen Gohan. I still agree with my original opinion that he should be MVP, but no arguing with the staff.
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Derangel

Obsidianmoon
Jun 11 2014, 02:49 PM
Quote:
 
I think this has gotten quite off topic how the stats as they are now is all we have right now in determining who goes to the MVP tournament. I'd like to see the stats improved, but that is a conversation for another place. But because stats... All stats especially stats on averages can be misleading, teams should have a little wiggle room for choosing their MVP, within reason. For most teams it will be the highest average damage but if you look at the stats there are a few teams with players less than 3000 average damage apart.


This I agree with. for 90% of the players in the league, I think average damage works fine. But I don't feel this works well for every member of every team. Which is why I argued for Future Gohan over Teen Gohan. I still agree with my original opinion that he should be MVP, but no arguing with the staff.
You are more than welcome to debate with the staff. That's why we post these decisions in open topics, so everyone else can have a say and bring up their concerns/complaints. If we didn't want you to debate we'd put it in a locked topic and simply tell you that you have no say. There is a world of difference between not coming up with a compelling argument to make us change our mind versus your opinion not being wanted. Don't blame our opinions differing on a decision on us not wanting to hear them in the first place. That is incredibly disrespectful and insulting.
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bluwolfie
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Back on topic: I too think there should be a little wiggle room, so long as the two highest damaging players are reasonably close in average damage done. But I don't really have a problem with the system just making us use the highest damage player. Especially since it turned out to be Roshi for us anyway :p
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Derangel

Huzzahfortimelines
Jun 11 2014, 12:44 PM
And yes, you may find my idea's rubbish, that's fine of course. What I am saying however, is that I feel that the staff should at least be looking into a better solution than what we have right now. If you think what we got is the best way to deal with things, then that's that. I just hope that we won't have to let a team away from the playoffs with a difference of 10 points of damage in the future, because the possible reaction may actually, quite literally and dramatically be: "I... what?"
So you want us to come up with a better solution? What do you think we've been doing for five seasons!? What exactly do you think we do in the staff section? Don't you think we've discussed the problem before presenting it to everyone else? This IS the best solution we've found. We can't just waggle our fingers and magically come up with a solution on the spot. If someone thinks of something different we'll discuss it and figure out if it is better or not and go from there. Like we do with every idea one of the staff members brings up and occasionally ideas we see brought up by other people. You going "you should look into better solutions" is insulting all the time and effort we put into making this league work. You make it sound like we don't think about different solutions or ideas for various problems, as if we just come up with and implement things at random. I understand your concern but I do not appreciate your tone.
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Burnarator
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General Forum Administrator
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Are we collecting these now, or is this the new trend of starting a comment? :P

If you want to collect comments on us generally confused by your statements, sure. But if you mis-quote me I will stab you. In the face. Repeatedly. Capisce?

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Comparing real life sports to DBZLeague really wasn't such a good idea

Why not? Squee has been doing it for a really long time.

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I feel that the staff should at least be looking into a better solution than what we have right now.

You can ask for the staff to try and figure something new and shiny out until the cows come home. But just remember, I am the one in charge of the stats and have the final say in the matter. If we come up with something that is too much work, I will veto it, and you guys will just have to deal with it.

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I too think there should be a little wiggle room

This season there were too many teams that weren't going to put out who we felt was their true MVP into the MVP Tournament but just wanted to win it. So for this season at least unless you come up with a really good reason why "Character X" is your MVP, and the staff agrees, you are all going to be stuck with the highest damaging character. We as a staff will come together at the end of season 6 to see whether we want to keep this rule in effect or let you guys choose again.
Edited by Squee913, Jun 11 2014, 07:00 PM.
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Squee913
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First of all Obsidian, I will ask again, in what way shape or form do you think Future Gohan did better than Teen Gohan? And I need a solid reason, not just your feels. This is a match for MVP, not who you like the most. Teen Gohan beat him in every single stat except clashes. He did more damage, hit with more moves, tagged more, and performed better over all. So, convince me. And I really mean it. Show me that your feelings that he did better are based on more than because you say so.

Faemles, we tried wiggle room and you see where that got us. Teams started ignoring the spirit in favor of winning. We had to come up with a hard system that no one can distort to do what they want instead of what they should. If you have an idea that is better than Average damage, by all means let us know. I get what you are saying, but the problem is this: Let's say we we agree that this only works for 90% of the teams(I don't agree, but let's pretend for a moment that I do), every team who does not want to send their highest damaging player to the MVP, will claim they fall in that 10%. I am not opposed to there being exceptions, but those exceptions would have to be bound by concrete rules of some sort or we have solved nothing.

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When the average damage of a team is largely affected by the quality of the finishing move of the team, then I feel that this system is incredibly flawed, and should be corrected.


Who? When? What team? Show that this is happening, has ever happened, or has a large chance of happening before you start acting like it is a serious problem. Show me that the average damage of any team is largely affect by the "quality of the finishing move". We are talking about the entire average of an entire team of the course of 15 weeks. Let's take the Androids. You would need over 25,000 points of this "bonus damage" to even raise their overall team average by a thousand. That is hardly a large impact by any standards. Considering that every team was at least 3,000 points away from any other team in their division in the over all average, you would have to show that any team did over 75,000 damage in bonus damage alone AND that the teams they were measured against did not have any bonus damage whatsoever or that number would have to be even higher. That is at least 6-7 ultimates and would mean a team finished almost half their seasons matches with an ultiamte when their opponent had very little health left. If and when you do that, you might have a case and we could debate if this is a problem. Until then, you are making a straw man argument over a problem that does not exist.
Edited by Squee913, Jun 11 2014, 07:03 PM.
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