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Who is the smartest person to have ever lived?
Topic Started: Oct 14 2011, 03:12 PM (4,204 Views)
Squee913
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Warden of Wisdom
May 10 2012, 08:06 PM
Squee913
May 10 2012, 08:01 PM
Warden of Wisdom
May 10 2012, 07:53 PM
I agree that Hannibal was an amazing military mind, but after the North African counter invasion and when he was defeated by Scipio Africanus at the Battle of Zama, He seldom attained brilliant victories like before. I also think Leonidas was given too much credit, yes he used geographic advantage and more disciplined soldiers as a major advantage, but everyone fails to remember that there were around 300 spartans at the Battle of Thermopylae and around 22,000 others (says Wikipedia, not sure about that number though). He also should have found someone other than the Athenians to handle naval battles because they suck at it.
Bah! Zama was not his fault! He never wanted to leave Italy. Carthage Forced him to. He told them they could not win a battle on the plains of Zama, they made him fight it anyway. :-/
Haha, what great friends he had. But then again, it comes down to how intelligent exactly was he to fight there anyways. If I were faced with the decision of running away and facing potential demotion or resignation vs. risking the casualties suffered at Zama, I would go with the first one. But that's also a matter of loyalty, which I'm sure he was loyal.
It is a hard thing for modern people to grasp since our loyalties are much smaller in scope. We are loyal to our families and friends. Being loyal to our country is a very abstract thing to us. To people back then, however, it was everything.
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Warden of Wisdom
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The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent. -Carl Sagan
RandomMan1
May 10 2012, 08:07 PM
Warden of Wisdom
May 10 2012, 08:02 PM
RandomMan1
May 10 2012, 07:59 PM
Warden of Wisdom
May 10 2012, 05:17 PM
Chocl8215
May 10 2012, 04:44 PM
I see sun tzu as the best general on here by far, I mean when you write something down that still gets used almost a thousand years later, SOMETHING has to be right with it. it's why I originally put Thomas Jeffesron on the list, rather than J.K. (I figured I needed at least one or two women on the list). The constitution was written up almost 400 years ago, and yet it still stands as the foundation of every law america has made since creation. As for tsu, The man was ahead of his time and still managed to be totally successful, whereas many "should have been born in five hundred years" types like leonardo davinci, never got their big projects done for lack of (for lack of a better word) a catalyst.
But this is who is the best General. Yes, the book is used today as people mentioned in business and finance amongst other things, but how many times do you see people covering plains in sesame oil now a days? "The Art of War" was revolutionary, of corse, but today the specific strategies and methods of warfare aren't in use.
I just realized something. From what I recall about "The Art of War", it never lists specific stratedgies, only strategies that would be useful far into the future.
I've only seen lengthly excerpts, so my knowledge is limited, but most of what I have seen is rather vague guidelines to battle in general.
Well then you've basically seen most of the content. None of the strategies are specific, they are all very vauge. Which makes them useful, since there is nothing that could not be used in the modern day (though he lacks urban warfare, but that really makes sense, as fighting in cities wasn't that common).
Once again I believe the Art of War is nothing short of your standard strategic guidebook, but I also believe Alexander's strategies and the way he attained them (through examining previous tactics and deriving and adapting similar ones) yielded better results and shows his resourcefulness and intelligence.
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Chocl8215
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Man of great chocolate
thing is, do you guys remember captain kirrahe's speech in mass effect 1? he mentioned that the graetest heroes to the salarians were the ones who did what they did and no one knew. What about squeeper? how many people know he existed as something other than the founder of the anthrops? It cannot be understated that our opinion is not right or wrong, it's an opinion and, as such, is impossible to possess or lack validity. Maybe there was a thief so vastly intelligent he stole things that we don't know today that he stole, maybe a man found the secret to immortality and didn't reveal it because he though humanity wasn't ready. it's unlikely, but possible. and so we can only go by what we know.
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Warden of Wisdom
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The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent. -Carl Sagan
Squee913
May 10 2012, 08:09 PM
Warden of Wisdom
May 10 2012, 08:06 PM
Squee913
May 10 2012, 08:01 PM
Warden of Wisdom
May 10 2012, 07:53 PM
I agree that Hannibal was an amazing military mind, but after the North African counter invasion and when he was defeated by Scipio Africanus at the Battle of Zama, He seldom attained brilliant victories like before. I also think Leonidas was given too much credit, yes he used geographic advantage and more disciplined soldiers as a major advantage, but everyone fails to remember that there were around 300 spartans at the Battle of Thermopylae and around 22,000 others (says Wikipedia, not sure about that number though). He also should have found someone other than the Athenians to handle naval battles because they suck at it.
Bah! Zama was not his fault! He never wanted to leave Italy. Carthage Forced him to. He told them they could not win a battle on the plains of Zama, they made him fight it anyway. :-/
Haha, what great friends he had. But then again, it comes down to how intelligent exactly was he to fight there anyways. If I were faced with the decision of running away and facing potential demotion or resignation vs. risking the casualties suffered at Zama, I would go with the first one. But that's also a matter of loyalty, which I'm sure he was loyal.
It is a hard thing for modern people to grasp since our loyalties are much smaller in scope. We are loyal to our families and friends. Being loyal to our country is a very abstract thing to us. To people back then, however, it was everything.
I wouldn't know nearly as much as being loyal to your country as you, so I can understand your reasoning in his defense.
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Squee913
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Warden of Wisdom
May 10 2012, 08:11 PM
RandomMan1
May 10 2012, 08:07 PM
Warden of Wisdom
May 10 2012, 08:02 PM
RandomMan1
May 10 2012, 07:59 PM
Warden of Wisdom
May 10 2012, 05:17 PM
Chocl8215
May 10 2012, 04:44 PM
I see sun tzu as the best general on here by far, I mean when you write something down that still gets used almost a thousand years later, SOMETHING has to be right with it. it's why I originally put Thomas Jeffesron on the list, rather than J.K. (I figured I needed at least one or two women on the list). The constitution was written up almost 400 years ago, and yet it still stands as the foundation of every law america has made since creation. As for tsu, The man was ahead of his time and still managed to be totally successful, whereas many "should have been born in five hundred years" types like leonardo davinci, never got their big projects done for lack of (for lack of a better word) a catalyst.
But this is who is the best General. Yes, the book is used today as people mentioned in business and finance amongst other things, but how many times do you see people covering plains in sesame oil now a days? "The Art of War" was revolutionary, of corse, but today the specific strategies and methods of warfare aren't in use.
I just realized something. From what I recall about "The Art of War", it never lists specific stratedgies, only strategies that would be useful far into the future.
I've only seen lengthly excerpts, so my knowledge is limited, but most of what I have seen is rather vague guidelines to battle in general.
Well then you've basically seen most of the content. None of the strategies are specific, they are all very vauge. Which makes them useful, since there is nothing that could not be used in the modern day (though he lacks urban warfare, but that really makes sense, as fighting in cities wasn't that common).
Once again I believe the Art of War is nothing short of your standard strategic guidebook, but I also believe Alexander's strategies and the way he attained them (through examining previous tactics and deriving and adapting similar ones) yielded better results and shows his resourcefulness and intelligence.
We really cannot compare the two since we have no idea of Sun Tzu's accomplishments. we can point to what Alexander did and marvel. Other than writing that book, we have no idea what Sun Tzu accomplished.

Need more data... does not compute....
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Warden of Wisdom
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The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent. -Carl Sagan
Chocl8215
May 10 2012, 08:13 PM
thing is, do you guys remember captain kirrahe's speech in mass effect 1? he mentioned that the graetest heroes to the salarians were the ones who did what they did and no one knew. What about squeeper? how many people know he existed as something other than the founder of the anthrops? It cannot be understated that our opinion is not right or wrong, it's an opinion and, as such, is impossible to possess or lack validity. Maybe there was a thief so vastly intelligent he stole things that we don't know today that he stole, maybe a man found the secret to immortality and didn't reveal it because he though humanity wasn't ready. it's unlikely, but possible. and so we can only go by what we know.
I agree, but I believe we're simply going by success as far as art goes.
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Chocl8215
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Man of great chocolate
Warden of Wisdom
May 10 2012, 08:15 PM
Chocl8215
May 10 2012, 08:13 PM
thing is, do you guys remember captain kirrahe's speech in mass effect 1? he mentioned that the graetest heroes to the salarians were the ones who did what they did and no one knew. What about squeeper? how many people know he existed as something other than the founder of the anthrops? It cannot be understated that our opinion is not right or wrong, it's an opinion and, as such, is impossible to possess or lack validity. Maybe there was a thief so vastly intelligent he stole things that we don't know today that he stole, maybe a man found the secret to immortality and didn't reveal it because he though humanity wasn't ready. it's unlikely, but possible. and so we can only go by what we know.
I agree, but I believe we're simply going by success as far as art goes.
what more do we have to go by?
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Warden of Wisdom
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The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent. -Carl Sagan
Why couldn't someone have written down everything that every happened without using hyperboles and metaphors! Gah!
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Squee913
Member Avatar

Warden of Wisdom
May 10 2012, 08:13 PM
Squee913
May 10 2012, 08:09 PM
Warden of Wisdom
May 10 2012, 08:06 PM
Squee913
May 10 2012, 08:01 PM
Warden of Wisdom
May 10 2012, 07:53 PM
I agree that Hannibal was an amazing military mind, but after the North African counter invasion and when he was defeated by Scipio Africanus at the Battle of Zama, He seldom attained brilliant victories like before. I also think Leonidas was given too much credit, yes he used geographic advantage and more disciplined soldiers as a major advantage, but everyone fails to remember that there were around 300 spartans at the Battle of Thermopylae and around 22,000 others (says Wikipedia, not sure about that number though). He also should have found someone other than the Athenians to handle naval battles because they suck at it.
Bah! Zama was not his fault! He never wanted to leave Italy. Carthage Forced him to. He told them they could not win a battle on the plains of Zama, they made him fight it anyway. :-/
Haha, what great friends he had. But then again, it comes down to how intelligent exactly was he to fight there anyways. If I were faced with the decision of running away and facing potential demotion or resignation vs. risking the casualties suffered at Zama, I would go with the first one. But that's also a matter of loyalty, which I'm sure he was loyal.
It is a hard thing for modern people to grasp since our loyalties are much smaller in scope. We are loyal to our families and friends. Being loyal to our country is a very abstract thing to us. To people back then, however, it was everything.
I wouldn't know nearly as much as being loyal to your country as you, so I can understand your reasoning in his defense.
Even soldiers today do not have the same concept of loyalty to our country that they had back then. The truth of the matter is, that the troops in the american army are not fighting for their country so much as for the guy in the fox hole with them. I am not firing my gun to defend the red white and blue, but to defend the trooper next to me.

Back then, they really did fire arrows for the king, emperor, god, whatever.
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Warden of Wisdom
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The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent. -Carl Sagan
Chocl8215
May 10 2012, 08:16 PM
Warden of Wisdom
May 10 2012, 08:15 PM
Chocl8215
May 10 2012, 08:13 PM
thing is, do you guys remember captain kirrahe's speech in mass effect 1? he mentioned that the graetest heroes to the salarians were the ones who did what they did and no one knew. What about squeeper? how many people know he existed as something other than the founder of the anthrops? It cannot be understated that our opinion is not right or wrong, it's an opinion and, as such, is impossible to possess or lack validity. Maybe there was a thief so vastly intelligent he stole things that we don't know today that he stole, maybe a man found the secret to immortality and didn't reveal it because he though humanity wasn't ready. it's unlikely, but possible. and so we can only go by what we know.
I agree, but I believe we're simply going by success as far as art goes.
what more do we have to go by?
The amount of cheese the artist consumed, of corse.
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