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Eating in the Britainlands.; What?
Topic Started: Mar 23 2012, 01:36 PM (6,957 Views)
Dantos4
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RandomMan1
Mar 24 2012, 02:45 PM
Paardon the misunderstanding, I was actually talking about a hypothetical situation. And, I call them minor allies (and I admit some of them were major allies) because many of the listed nations only made up 1 or 2 regiments. The Greeks were busy dealing with the Italian invasion, and many of the listed nations had already been captured (i.e Poland, Czechoslovakia, Norwayt, Yougoslavia, France (they lasted about a week) and the Netherlands), and China was busy being destroyed by Japan (They were dropping airborne poison on the Chinese villages, with no one but innocents)

Yes, I do believe Japan would have fought relentlesly after all its allies were defeated, why? Because they fucking did. Watch the history channel, you'll learn how relentlessly the Japanese were fighting. No, unless we invaded mainland Japan, they wouldn't have surrendered. I studied a lot about the Pacific Theatre. Everytime Americans took an island, many Japanese citizens on the island would commit ritual suicide to avoid falling under American control. Mainland Japan was gearing every last citizen for the mainland invasion, providing phamphlets to ttheir citizens on hor to dive under tanks with bombs, in order to destroy them. Japan was in a fight for survival after Hitler went down, and if there is one good thing about Japan during WW2, it was that they fought like animals (Kamakazie pilots, bonsai rushes, etc). Also, would you like to know the estimated death toll for an invasion on mainland Japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall#Estimated_casualties

Yes, the bombings were horrible. The man who invented it stated, "I have becom death, destroyer of worlds" (Yes he was actually sad about it, don't think diffrently). The pilots who dropped it said that they weren't the heros some people thought they were, they felt more like figures of evil. But, if you look at the estimated death toll of Operation Downfall, you would realize that the bombs caused less death than the invasion would have caused. The 2nd bomb was horrible, but we actually had a reason. We warned Japan that we would drop bomb #2 if they didn't surrender. They didn't surrender in time. We gave them a warning, and they failed to heed it, so we dropped the 2nd bomb. We had threatened a 3rd bomb, but they surrendered before that (which was good because we didn't have a third bomb).
Well considering the whole thing is hypothetical, it has sort of become pointless.

We can argue all day about whether or not Germany would have beaten the UK or the Soviets without the USA. But only facts we have are that they had not done so before America's involvement. Germany had failed to take Britain and abandoned all but bombing runs on "sure" locations at night. The Soviets had Stalingrad AND Moscow victories without US troop involvement, not to mention their superior manpower and armoured advantage, although I would have loved to have seen a "better" designed Jagdtiger in action.

I do watch the History channel, thanks. I never said that they would lay down and surender, but that they would either surrender or be crushed by European/Soviet forces. Do you see how that is contradictory though? The Japanese would have fought relentlessly, and did. Yet the eventually surrendered anyway. Regardless of the use of Atomic bombs, Japan by itself would have been no match for the Soviets alone, never mind the UK & Commonwealth countries. Combined. They were busy taking over a few colonies, not invading Europe.

Again, I am well educated in history and know of Oppenheimer's words. We can never be sure that an Atomic Bomb was the right thing to do, personally I completely disagree with it's use. Attacking another military force results in MILITARY casualties, bombing cities results in CIVILIAN casualties. For all the UK/US/Europe goes on about saving civilians in Iraq/Iran/Libya/Syria, they didn't care so much for the Japanese civilians.

We were not losing and had not lost ANY English soil before US involvement, only colonial/allied soil. & The Russians did their jobs without any American military support. I don't see how anybody#s asses were saved.


Basically, to sum up my points in a few abstract analogies:
(The the US 'saving your asses'):

Analogy: It is like when a quarter back throws a bad pass, some guy tries to intercept but gets a slight touch, then the second guy intercepts it. And the first guy saying "If it wasn't for my help, you wouldn't have caught it". Nobody knows if the second guy would have caught it anyway without the first guy's help.

Analogy: One guy lights a tree on fire in the forest. Another guy pours oil all over it. The second guy says "The forest would never have caught fire with just your flame, it needed oil"... We would never know if it would have caught fire without the oil.

{Japan not surrendering):
Analogy: It's like saying the ONLY way to make alcohol is to ferment hops. Yet there are so many more ways to create alcohol. Just because one method works, doesn't mean there aren't (or "weren't" in Japan's situation) others available.
Saying: "There is more than one way to skin a cat" - E.g. resorting the nuking civilians (who had done nothing wrong and may actually WANT surrender), to get a surrender, does not mean there couldn't have been other methods to get a surrender. At this point it was pretty much the world vs. Japan. Pretty sure we could have used other methods.
Edited by Dantos4, Mar 24 2012, 03:31 PM.
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RandomMan1
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Fine, I'll finish the argument here. We both are beating our heads on a brick wall here. Neither of us are getting anywhere with this argument. So, I'll just stop here.
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Grey
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But It was just getting fun. :P
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RandomMan1
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Greysoul
Mar 24 2012, 03:33 PM
But It was just getting fun. :P
Well then, by all means, knock yourself out. :)
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Grey
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War history from any time guns where involved... not my strong suit. In all honesty the Lime did win that little quarrel.
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Cthulhu-Gala
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Praetorian Guard
Lend-Lease was a critical factor in the eventual success of the Allies in World War II.[N 1] In 1943–1944, about a quarter of all British munitions came through Lend-Lease. Aircraft (in particular transport aircraft) comprised about a quarter of the shipments to Britain, followed by food, land vehicles and ships[citation needed].

Even after the United States forces in Europe and the Pacific began to reach full-strength in 1943–1944, Lend-Lease continued. Most remaining allies were largely self-sufficient in front line equipment (such as tanks and fighter aircraft) by this stage, but Lend-Lease provided a useful supplement in this category even so, and Lend-Lease logistical supplies (including motor vehicles and railroad equipment) were of enormous assistance.

Much of the aid can be better understood when considering the economic distortions caused by the war. Most belligerent powers cut back severely on production of non-essentials, concentrating on producing weapons. This inevitably produced shortages of related products needed by the military or as part of the military-industrial complex.

The USSR was highly dependent on rail transportation, but the war practically shut down rail equipment production: only about 92 locomotives were produced. 2,000 locomotives and 11,000 railcars were supplied under Lend-Lease. Likewise, the Soviet air force received 18,700 aircraft, which amounted to about 14% of Soviet aircraft production (19% for military aircraft).[16]

Although most Red Army tank units were equipped with Soviet-built tanks, their logistical support was provided by hundreds of thousands of U.S.-made trucks. Indeed by 1945 nearly two-thirds of the truck strength of the Red Army was U.S.-built. Trucks such as the Dodge 3/4 ton and Studebaker 2½ ton, were easily the best trucks available in their class on either side on the Eastern Front. American shipments of telephone cable, aluminium, canned rations, and clothing were also critical.

Dantos you seem to not know anything about WW2 at all the russians would have been stomped without US aid and guess what US pilots fought in the Battle of Britan. Japan was ready to fight to the last man you don't understand the nuke was needed to scare the emperor into growing balls and to tell the army to back the fuck down. Japan stomp british forces till US marines entered the fight. Dantos you need to stop acting like the UK had the power to beat germany yet alone them and japan
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PvtCryan501
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Whoa therevI have to say one thing: Patton. He did so much and showed up Montgomery and what about the Canadians they helped too I mean nothing big but helped and I know Patton was not there for Berlin but he tied up the German's last eastern offense blast me for not remembering the name. Plus the Enterprise versus the Japenese we won that war on our own. So do not think It was just Britan and the Russians( even though they totally rejected the Germans on the eastern front) because it was a united effort.
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PvtCryan501
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DONE now this thing was a way how British people eat not a debate about WW2.
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Cthulhu-Gala
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Praetorian Guard
no this a trolling topic
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Grey
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Yes it is. People need a centralized place to trollololol.
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