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I don't like Skyrim; Now I've done it...
Topic Started: Dec 7 2012, 11:10 PM (3,106 Views)
sindre1818
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Piph0
Dec 12 2012, 02:07 AM
What about those people who don't want big bad monsters turning into little bunnies? :P
I choose to believe that no such person exist.
Quote:
 
Fallout 3 is my favorite game. I don't know if am going to get 4 because of this game.

Remember, they made Oblivion before they made fallout 3, and Oblivion had the same faults as Skyrim. I think they focus on different things.

infernocanuck
 
If I may add a little constructive criticism, I think it might be best not to treat the quoting-then-replying thing as a conversation. Reading a bunch of text just to read, "Oh, nevermind" at the end isn't the most... efficient way to debate on a forum. I would suggest just taking some sections that you really want to address, quote them, and then offer a succinct counter-argument. That is a more appealing way to read a post, rather then a huge wall of blue and white text.

I liked it. I thought it made it more fun to read.
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Tazura92
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Okay i don't have much to add...but you said you worked to get the unique items and you should feel rewarded. Well i can bet you that the work you put into getting unique items is a lot less than getting 100 in both smithing and enchantments. Because to get two enchantments on any item you HAVE to get to 100. And to upgrade armor to its max you HAVE to get 100. And instead of having to put "perks" into smithing and enchantments you can level other useful skills which means you have to level less also.

So lets say it take you an hour to get 1 unique item While it takes me 5 hours to get the material and then smith iron daggers till i get 100 smithing ( this is the fastest way i know how to level it up). I've spent 70 hours in skyrim and collected just about every unique item and still have not gotten 100 enchantment while I am pretty much enchanting everything i can.

If we are talking just the results then you are right, but if we are talking effort i should get rewarded more for the time i spent.
This is of course just my opinion.
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MUERTE
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I don't really like Skyrim either, let me try to explain.

Like piph said previously, eploring can conflict with quests.
Spoiler: click to toggle

This I think is really annoying, it really breaks the gam for me.

Also there are some mayor bugs wich can really F*ck you up during quests.
here is one
Spoiler: click to toggle


The game also doesn't really support Roleplaying for me.
There is no "hardcore" option like in fallout. You can try to do realistic with sleeping and eating, but going into a dungeon takes up a few hours, and when you get out it's midnight and you still not have dinner or sleep, and you need to walk all the way back to the town to finally sleep.


There are also good things, I don't think the combat is repetative, I tink it's fun.
I do really enjoy the option of horse combat so you don't need to go off your horse just to fight some wolfs.

They could do interaction with Npc's better though, I don't get teh feeling of doing something good taht much as I got in fallout 3 an New vegas.



I believe Bethesda could have done al ot of things better, the look is nice, but alot could have been improved.
But that would have taken more time and fans where screaming there tits of for skyrim so I undestand why.

Peace
JK
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10MtLaw
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Quote:
 

I don't like Skyrim. Alright, to make this easier on me, cus I'm not a very fast typer nor a very good one
, Imma just gonna type down key points that I didn't like in Skyrim.

- Enemies and items leveling with you.
- Exploring sometimes make quests un-completable.
- Unique items' usefulness
- Glitches (The ones that are constant)
- Interaction with stories and NPC's


Firstly I know you made a detailed version of this so i will try to work on that one instead of this point formed on...


-Enemies & items leveling with you
I Pretty much agree with you
The way skyrim made this leveling thing made me feel very unsatisfied, after reaching level 50 and above
I was force to wear something better than Dwarven armor, and i seriously quit the game because of it
I guess the argument i want to make is That it could have been done much better
The Scaling of the enemies and items should not be as step as it is
and i'm so disappointed that at level 55 with a blade and smiting skill of 100 you cannot go anywhere hostile unarmored
unless you have over 30 potions of health with you

- Exploring sometimes make quests un-completable
I also hate it when people compliment the size of the game but ignore the quality of the game...
I realize that these lost in code is not easy to detect but it should less frequent

I mean in my first "Exploring " game I couldn't continue 2 major guild quest lines,
And I avoided the guild in both those cities like thae plague after that experience
I Mean after building three massive world that have the same problem
Makes me feel that Bethesda is not willing to rebuild the game's creation engine at all and that makes me feel sad


- Unique items' usefulness
I found them fun and Their frequency is a little too often than i like
But i do feel your pain, as in the Enchanting and smiting system seems to outshine the unique weapons
I Do see it as a problem and this is one case where equipment endurance and deminishing effectiveness
would have improved the overall use of unique items
for example if unique weapons were less effected by deminishing effectiveness than renforced weapons
But i enjoyed the novelty of the unique weapons more
than the frustration that it would never be as good as my current equipment


Glitches (The ones that are constant)
Once again should not have been as frequent as it was.
Glitches were the highlight of most of my playthroughs
But ultimately it broke my concentration more and i hate the fact that people don't link this with the quest loss scenarios

- Interaction with stories and NPC's
I totally agree with you on this infact i want to add-on to your list
you said there was no way to "just say no" in many situations
well all the characters were shallow, no matter how much of an impact they have on the story

When i can strike a King down and not feel one bit about his ending plea it shows how sub-standard the game is
Think I am heartless,
What about the Daedric entities, none of them make you angry at them...
None of them make you want to avenge the people they hurt
When I think the most mention worthy character in such a large word is a random woodsman in the forest
that ask you to kill spirit animals shows how bland each character is...
Even the DRAGONS are BOaring... WHY!!!!!!???!!!!!
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Piph0
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Milkman
Tazura92
Dec 15 2012, 11:29 AM
Okay i don't have much to add...but you said you worked to get the unique items and you should feel rewarded. Well i can bet you that the work you put into getting unique items is a lot less than getting 100 in both smithing and enchantments. Because to get two enchantments on any item you HAVE to get to 100. And to upgrade armor to its max you HAVE to get 100. And instead of having to put "perks" into smithing and enchantments you can level other useful skills which means you have to level less also.

So lets say it take you an hour to get 1 unique item While it takes me 5 hours to get the material and then smith iron daggers till i get 100 smithing ( this is the fastest way i know how to level it up). I've spent 70 hours in skyrim and collected just about every unique item and still have not gotten 100 enchantment while I am pretty much enchanting everything i can.

If we are talking just the results then you are right, but if we are talking effort i should get rewarded more for the time i spent.
This is of course just my opinion.
Sorry for the long time to respond to your post. When I first looked, I foolishly thought I shouldn't respond because it was about Smithing vs Unique items argument again. After reading it again, I realized this is more of a reward vs reward. So, let's get started.

Your argument of...
Quote:
 
Because to get two enchantments on any item you HAVE to get to 100.
...is true, but...
Quote:
 
And to upgrade armor to its max you HAVE to get 100.
...is not.
One can make an armor value of the same armor without 100 Smithing greater than an armor value made with 100 Smithing.

Quote:
 
If we are talking just the results then you are right, but if we are talking effort i should get rewarded more for the time i spent.

I haven't thought too much about this point -- better now than never.

^o) There is a lot of games that have that If you spend more time you'll get more powerful and I appropriate and like that concept. To be honest, it's really hard to compare these two. I can't think of these two as less time, less effective; more time, more effective; I have to add all the different elements into the equation to weight the pros and cons. As a person who didn't look up things to find the "best way" to do anything, I was left with no guides but what the game told me game. Through 100+ish hours of gameplay, I found Smithing and got to 100 in the skill -- followed by equipment that helped with upgrading other equipment via smithing. At that point, I didn't even try to upgrade anything (because I didn't think of doing that), and still had better equipment then the Unique Equipment I found. At 150+ish hours, I had my awesome armor and weapon, and around that point I did the Forbidden Legend quest, which is a great example of time not worth the reward. I would like to tell you about it -- spoilers though.
Spoiler: click to toggle

I couldn't tell you how long it took from beginning of the quest to the end, but I think it's more than the time spent getting Smithing and Enchanting to 100. On that note, the whole 'time spent' thing is odd to me. I don't know when or how or -- what do I count? Does the time to find it in the first place count? If it took 1 hour to get a unique item and 5 hours to get Smithing to 100, wouldn't Smithing get you 4 or 5 armor pieces and weapons get you better time spent over all? Do prerequisites count? With Smithing, I could get a lot of ingots through buying, do I count the time spent getting that money? With quests, I need to be a certain level to have it available, do I count the time it took to get to that level? It's all very unclear to me. :-/
Edited by Piph0, Dec 28 2012, 12:44 AM.
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ViperKang
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Piph0
Dec 27 2012, 11:51 PM
Tazura92
Dec 15 2012, 11:29 AM
Okay i don't have much to add...but you said you worked to get the unique items and you should feel rewarded. Well i can bet you that the work you put into getting unique items is a lot less than getting 100 in both smithing and enchantments. Because to get two enchantments on any item you HAVE to get to 100. And to upgrade armor to its max you HAVE to get 100. And instead of having to put "perks" into smithing and enchantments you can level other useful skills which means you have to level less also.

So lets say it take you an hour to get 1 unique item While it takes me 5 hours to get the material and then smith iron daggers till i get 100 smithing ( this is the fastest way i know how to level it up). I've spent 70 hours in skyrim and collected just about every unique item and still have not gotten 100 enchantment while I am pretty much enchanting everything i can.

If we are talking just the results then you are right, but if we are talking effort i should get rewarded more for the time i spent.
This is of course just my opinion.
Sorry for the long time to respond to your post. When I first looked, I foolishly thought I shouldn't respond because it was about Smithing vs Unique items argument again. After reading it again, I realized this is more of a reward vs reward. So, let's get started.

Your argument of...
Quote:
 
Because to get two enchantments on any item you HAVE to get to 100.
...is true, but...
Quote:
 
And to upgrade armor to its max you HAVE to get 100.
...is not.
One can make an armor value of the same armor without 100 Smithing greater than an armor value made with 100 Smithing.

Quote:
 
If we are talking just the results then you are right, but if we are talking effort i should get rewarded more for the time i spent.

I haven't thought too much about this point -- better now than never.

^o) There is a lot of games that have that If you spend more time you'll get more powerful and I appropriate and like that concept. To be honest, it's really hard to compare these two. I can't think of these to as less time, less effective; more time, more effective; I have to add all the different elements into the equation to weight the pros and cons. As a person who didn't look up things to find the "best way" to do anything, I was left with no guides but what the game told me game. Through 100+ish hours of gameplay, I found Smithing and got to 100 in the skill -- followed by equipment that helped with upgrading other equipment via smithing. At that point, I didn't even try to upgrade anything (because I didn't think of doing that), and still had better equipment then the Unique Equipment I found. At 150+ish hours, I had my awesome armor and weapon, and around that point I did the Forbidden Legend quest, which is a great example of time not worth the reward. I would like to tell you about it -- spoilers though.
Spoiler: click to toggle

I couldn't tell you how long it took from beginning of the quest to the end, but I think it's more than the time spent getting Smithing and Enchanting to 100. On that note, the whole 'time spent' thing is odd to me. I don't know when or how or -- what do I count? Does the time to find it in the first place count? If it took 1 hour to get a unique item and 5 hours to get Smithing to 100, wouldn't Smithing get you 4 or 5 armor pieces and weapons get you better time spent over all? Do prerequisites count? With Smithing, I could get a lot of ingots through buying, do I count the time spent getting that money? With quests, I need to be a certain level to have it available, do I count the time it took to get to that level? It's all very unclear to me. :-/
If I may inject myself into this debate. I think the idea that time spent getting something should equal better reward is a bit silly. No game actually has this system. It just follows a very linear path. You play the game, level up, stuff gets stronger, rinse and repeat. The idea that you must spend X amount of hours to get Y doesn't automatically mean that Y should be a really good item. Rather it should be a unique item that is worth the time spent. And in that regard I believe that the real injustice is that you spend so much time getting smithing good only to gain the ability to improve vanilla items. Cause crafting just gives you easy access to in game items. The only weapons that are unique enough to warrant the time are dragonbone items as you have to kill a goddamn dragon and then smith its bones. But spending time in smithing shouldn't entitle you to getting better weapons. It should entitle you to unlocking unique weapons. But that's just me.
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Drakxii
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That quest is actually pretty low level. You don't need to be a set level to get it, you just need to stumble on one of the dungeons or find a book to start it.

So they had to choose between giving you a good item at level they expect you to find the quest at, give you a really powerful item that make it so you don't even need to look for better loot, or make it level to when you find it which no one seems to want.
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Piph0
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Milkman
Drakxii
Dec 28 2012, 01:20 PM
That quest is actually pretty low level. You don't need to be a set level to get it, you just need to stumble on one of the dungeons or find a book to start it.

So they had to choose between giving you a good item at level they expect you to find the quest at, give you a really powerful item that make it so you don't even need to look for better loot, or make it level to when you find it which no one seems to want.
What quest?
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Drakxii
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Piph0
Dec 28 2012, 08:47 PM
Drakxii
Dec 28 2012, 01:20 PM
That quest is actually pretty low level. You don't need to be a set level to get it, you just need to stumble on one of the dungeons or find a book to start it.

So they had to choose between giving you a good item at level they expect you to find the quest at, give you a really powerful item that make it so you don't even need to look for better loot, or make it level to when you find it which no one seems to want.
What quest?
The Forbidden Legend quest you were referencing in your post.
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Piph0
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Milkman
Drakxii
Dec 28 2012, 09:46 PM
Piph0
Dec 28 2012, 08:47 PM
Drakxii
Dec 28 2012, 01:20 PM
That quest is actually pretty low level. You don't need to be a set level to get it, you just need to stumble on one of the dungeons or find a book to start it.

So they had to choose between giving you a good item at level they expect you to find the quest at, give you a really powerful item that make it so you don't even need to look for better loot, or make it level to when you find it which no one seems to want.
What quest?
The Forbidden Legend quest you were referencing in your post.
Sorry, I didn't remember that quest had a book.

I would see your point if the quest was easy to find, like the quest The Legend of Red Eagle, and had low requirements on the player part aka didn't make the player track all over the map. To see what I am talking about, look up ALL the items and the locations to complete the The Forbidden Legend quest; keep in mind the time needed to find them without a guide.
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