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I don't like Skyrim; Now I've done it...
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Topic Started: Dec 7 2012, 11:10 PM (3,106 Views)
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sindre1818
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Dec 14 2012, 06:07 PM
Post #61
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- Piph0
- Dec 12 2012, 02:07 AM
What about those people who don't want big bad monsters turning into little bunnies? I choose to believe that no such person exist.
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Fallout 3 is my favorite game. I don't know if am going to get 4 because of this game.
Remember, they made Oblivion before they made fallout 3, and Oblivion had the same faults as Skyrim. I think they focus on different things.
- infernocanuck
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If I may add a little constructive criticism, I think it might be best not to treat the quoting-then-replying thing as a conversation. Reading a bunch of text just to read, "Oh, nevermind" at the end isn't the most... efficient way to debate on a forum. I would suggest just taking some sections that you really want to address, quote them, and then offer a succinct counter-argument. That is a more appealing way to read a post, rather then a huge wall of blue and white text.
I liked it. I thought it made it more fun to read.
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Tazura92
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Dec 15 2012, 11:29 AM
Post #62
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Okay i don't have much to add...but you said you worked to get the unique items and you should feel rewarded. Well i can bet you that the work you put into getting unique items is a lot less than getting 100 in both smithing and enchantments. Because to get two enchantments on any item you HAVE to get to 100. And to upgrade armor to its max you HAVE to get 100. And instead of having to put "perks" into smithing and enchantments you can level other useful skills which means you have to level less also.
So lets say it take you an hour to get 1 unique item While it takes me 5 hours to get the material and then smith iron daggers till i get 100 smithing ( this is the fastest way i know how to level it up). I've spent 70 hours in skyrim and collected just about every unique item and still have not gotten 100 enchantment while I am pretty much enchanting everything i can.
If we are talking just the results then you are right, but if we are talking effort i should get rewarded more for the time i spent. This is of course just my opinion.
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MUERTE
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Dec 18 2012, 04:49 AM
Post #63
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I don't really like Skyrim either, let me try to explain.
Like piph said previously, eploring can conflict with quests.
Spoiler: click to toggle I picked up a book remanada in a cave somewhere, when I later joined the mages guild, and someone requested I got that book, the quest still told me to go to the cave and pcik it up. i couldn't do anyting about it! This I think is really annoying, it really breaks the gam for me.
Also there are some mayor bugs wich can really F*ck you up during quests. here is one
Spoiler: click to toggle When I did the forsworn quest in Markarth, you get to the point that the guards will arrest you in the talos temple. I did that quest 4 times, 3 out of 4 times, the guard who arrest you is replaced with an Imperial commander, he just talks to you and says "go join the Legion" no arresting or anything! so that's where I got stuck
The game also doesn't really support Roleplaying for me. There is no "hardcore" option like in fallout. You can try to do realistic with sleeping and eating, but going into a dungeon takes up a few hours, and when you get out it's midnight and you still not have dinner or sleep, and you need to walk all the way back to the town to finally sleep.
There are also good things, I don't think the combat is repetative, I tink it's fun. I do really enjoy the option of horse combat so you don't need to go off your horse just to fight some wolfs.
They could do interaction with Npc's better though, I don't get teh feeling of doing something good taht much as I got in fallout 3 an New vegas.
I believe Bethesda could have done al ot of things better, the look is nice, but alot could have been improved. But that would have taken more time and fans where screaming there tits of for skyrim so I undestand why.
Peace JK
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10MtLaw
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Dec 18 2012, 10:32 AM
Post #64
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I don't like Skyrim. Alright, to make this easier on me, cus I'm not a very fast typer nor a very good one , Imma just gonna type down key points that I didn't like in Skyrim.
- Enemies and items leveling with you. - Exploring sometimes make quests un-completable. - Unique items' usefulness - Glitches (The ones that are constant) - Interaction with stories and NPC's
Firstly I know you made a detailed version of this so i will try to work on that one instead of this point formed on...
-Enemies & items leveling with you I Pretty much agree with you The way skyrim made this leveling thing made me feel very unsatisfied, after reaching level 50 and above I was force to wear something better than Dwarven armor, and i seriously quit the game because of it I guess the argument i want to make is That it could have been done much better The Scaling of the enemies and items should not be as step as it is and i'm so disappointed that at level 55 with a blade and smiting skill of 100 you cannot go anywhere hostile unarmored unless you have over 30 potions of health with you
- Exploring sometimes make quests un-completable I also hate it when people compliment the size of the game but ignore the quality of the game... I realize that these lost in code is not easy to detect but it should less frequent I mean in my first "Exploring " game I couldn't continue 2 major guild quest lines, And I avoided the guild in both those cities like thae plague after that experience I Mean after building three massive world that have the same problem Makes me feel that Bethesda is not willing to rebuild the game's creation engine at all and that makes me feel sad
- Unique items' usefulness I found them fun and Their frequency is a little too often than i like But i do feel your pain, as in the Enchanting and smiting system seems to outshine the unique weapons I Do see it as a problem and this is one case where equipment endurance and deminishing effectiveness would have improved the overall use of unique items for example if unique weapons were less effected by deminishing effectiveness than renforced weapons But i enjoyed the novelty of the unique weapons more than the frustration that it would never be as good as my current equipment
Glitches (The ones that are constant) Once again should not have been as frequent as it was. Glitches were the highlight of most of my playthroughs But ultimately it broke my concentration more and i hate the fact that people don't link this with the quest loss scenarios
- Interaction with stories and NPC's I totally agree with you on this infact i want to add-on to your list you said there was no way to "just say no" in many situations well all the characters were shallow, no matter how much of an impact they have on the story When i can strike a King down and not feel one bit about his ending plea it shows how sub-standard the game is Think I am heartless, What about the Daedric entities, none of them make you angry at them... None of them make you want to avenge the people they hurt When I think the most mention worthy character in such a large word is a random woodsman in the forest that ask you to kill spirit animals shows how bland each character is... Even the DRAGONS are BOaring... WHY!!!!!!???!!!!!
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Piph0
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Dec 27 2012, 11:51 PM
Post #65
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Milkman
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- Tazura92
- Dec 15 2012, 11:29 AM
Okay i don't have much to add...but you said you worked to get the unique items and you should feel rewarded. Well i can bet you that the work you put into getting unique items is a lot less than getting 100 in both smithing and enchantments. Because to get two enchantments on any item you HAVE to get to 100. And to upgrade armor to its max you HAVE to get 100. And instead of having to put "perks" into smithing and enchantments you can level other useful skills which means you have to level less also.
So lets say it take you an hour to get 1 unique item While it takes me 5 hours to get the material and then smith iron daggers till i get 100 smithing ( this is the fastest way i know how to level it up). I've spent 70 hours in skyrim and collected just about every unique item and still have not gotten 100 enchantment while I am pretty much enchanting everything i can.
If we are talking just the results then you are right, but if we are talking effort i should get rewarded more for the time i spent. This is of course just my opinion. Sorry for the long time to respond to your post. When I first looked, I foolishly thought I shouldn't respond because it was about Smithing vs Unique items argument again. After reading it again, I realized this is more of a reward vs reward. So, let's get started.
Your argument of... - Quote:
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Because to get two enchantments on any item you HAVE to get to 100. ...is true, but... - Quote:
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And to upgrade armor to its max you HAVE to get 100. ...is not. One can make an armor value of the same armor without 100 Smithing greater than an armor value made with 100 Smithing.
- Quote:
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If we are talking just the results then you are right, but if we are talking effort i should get rewarded more for the time i spent.
I haven't thought too much about this point -- better now than never.
There is a lot of games that have that If you spend more time you'll get more powerful and I appropriate and like that concept. To be honest, it's really hard to compare these two. I can't think of these two as less time, less effective; more time, more effective; I have to add all the different elements into the equation to weight the pros and cons. As a person who didn't look up things to find the "best way" to do anything, I was left with no guides but what the game told me game. Through 100+ish hours of gameplay, I found Smithing and got to 100 in the skill -- followed by equipment that helped with upgrading other equipment via smithing. At that point, I didn't even try to upgrade anything (because I didn't think of doing that), and still had better equipment then the Unique Equipment I found. At 150+ish hours, I had my awesome armor and weapon, and around that point I did the Forbidden Legend quest, which is a great example of time not worth the reward. I would like to tell you about it -- spoilers though. Spoiler: click to toggle Looking around like I usally do, I found a cave named Reachwater Rock. When inside I found a Dragon Claw, a note and a Dragon Claw Door. After reading about a great evil that should never be released, I want to open the door.  Opening said door revealed another Dragon Claw Door. What could be on the other side? A unique item? A neat boss? Both!? I then went on a quest to find more Dragon Claws. It took a bit to find them but I eventually got all the Claws I needed. What is behind the doors? Three pedestals. I thought the claws were enough to get a prize, but whatever  I need to fight a boss and/or get something. When trying to see what the pedestals do via trying the activation action on them, I put two necklace on the pedestals from two neat bosses I killed. So I had to find the last boss -- after searching most of the map, I looked up where the last necklace was located. The odd thing was I would have found it, but it was locked and needed to play through a part the Mage College quest to open that particular dungeon where the boss resided. After a neat boss fight and necklace get, it's back to Reachwater Rock to see what happens next. At the cave, this was more or least my thoughts. What is going to happen? What crazy hard unique boss is going to be? If there is one. I hope this is the last thing that I need. ...I put the last item in place and the bosses I killed before to get the get the aforementioned necklaces. This was not a 3 vs 1, they came one at a time -- killing one then the next stepping in. After those three... a ghost flew over my head ...Did I beat it? Did I let it free to kill a town or two? Nope. That didn't happen. That was the end story wise. The unique item I got was a necklace, a necklace that gave +30 to health, stamina and magic. That was basically it. I was immediately pissed. I still am. There is no reason why the quest should have ended in that way. I scoured the map to get here and this -- this is my reward. Repeat boss fights, a ghost, and a necklace that I've easily out-made -- heck, I've found better. I couldn't tell you how long it took from beginning of the quest to the end, but I think it's more than the time spent getting Smithing and Enchanting to 100. On that note, the whole 'time spent' thing is odd to me. I don't know when or how or -- what do I count? Does the time to find it in the first place count? If it took 1 hour to get a unique item and 5 hours to get Smithing to 100, wouldn't Smithing get you 4 or 5 armor pieces and weapons get you better time spent over all? Do prerequisites count? With Smithing, I could get a lot of ingots through buying, do I count the time spent getting that money? With quests, I need to be a certain level to have it available, do I count the time it took to get to that level? It's all very unclear to me.
Edited by Piph0, Dec 28 2012, 12:44 AM.
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ViperKang
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Dec 28 2012, 12:16 AM
Post #66
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- Piph0
- Dec 27 2012, 11:51 PM
- Tazura92
- Dec 15 2012, 11:29 AM
Okay i don't have much to add...but you said you worked to get the unique items and you should feel rewarded. Well i can bet you that the work you put into getting unique items is a lot less than getting 100 in both smithing and enchantments. Because to get two enchantments on any item you HAVE to get to 100. And to upgrade armor to its max you HAVE to get 100. And instead of having to put "perks" into smithing and enchantments you can level other useful skills which means you have to level less also.
So lets say it take you an hour to get 1 unique item While it takes me 5 hours to get the material and then smith iron daggers till i get 100 smithing ( this is the fastest way i know how to level it up). I've spent 70 hours in skyrim and collected just about every unique item and still have not gotten 100 enchantment while I am pretty much enchanting everything i can.
If we are talking just the results then you are right, but if we are talking effort i should get rewarded more for the time i spent. This is of course just my opinion.
Sorry for the long time to respond to your post. When I first looked, I foolishly thought I shouldn't respond because it was about Smithing vs Unique items argument again. After reading it again, I realized this is more of a reward vs reward. So, let's get started. Your argument of... - Quote:
-
Because to get two enchantments on any item you HAVE to get to 100.
...is true, but... - Quote:
-
And to upgrade armor to its max you HAVE to get 100.
...is not. One can make an armor value of the same armor without 100 Smithing greater than an armor value made with 100 Smithing. - Quote:
-
If we are talking just the results then you are right, but if we are talking effort i should get rewarded more for the time i spent.
I haven't thought too much about this point -- better now than never.  There is a lot of games that have that If you spend more time you'll get more powerful and I appropriate and like that concept. To be honest, it's really hard to compare these two. I can't think of these to as less time, less effective; more time, more effective; I have to add all the different elements into the equation to weight the pros and cons. As a person who didn't look up things to find the "best way" to do anything, I was left with no guides but what the game told me game. Through 100+ish hours of gameplay, I found Smithing and got to 100 in the skill -- followed by equipment that helped with upgrading other equipment via smithing. At that point, I didn't even try to upgrade anything (because I didn't think of doing that), and still had better equipment then the Unique Equipment I found. At 150+ish hours, I had my awesome armor and weapon, and around that point I did the Forbidden Legend quest, which is a great example of time not worth the reward. I would like to tell you about it -- spoilers though. Spoiler: click to toggle Looking around like I usally do, I found a cave named Reachwater Rock. When inside I found a Dragon Claw, a note and a Dragon Claw Door. After reading about a great evil that should never be released, I want to open the door.  Opening said door revealed another Dragon Claw Door. What could be on the other side? A unique item? A neat boss? Both!? I then went on a quest to find more Dragon Claws. It took a bit to find them but I eventually got all the Claws I needed. What is behind the doors? Three pedestals. I thought the claws were enough to get a prize, but whatever  I need to fight a boss and/or get something. When trying to see what the pedestals do via trying the activation action on them, I put two necklace on the pedestals from two neat bosses I killed. So I had to find the last boss -- after searching most of the map, I looked up where the last necklace was located. The odd thing was I would have found it, but it was locked and needed to play through a part the Mage College quest to open that particular dungeon where the boss resided. After a neat boss fight and necklace get, it's back to Reachwater Rock to see what happens next. At the cave, this was more or least my thoughts. What is going to happen? What crazy hard unique boss is going to be? If there is one. I hope this is the last thing that I need. ...I put the last item in place and the bosses I killed before to get the get the aforementioned necklaces. This was not a 3 vs 1, they came one at a time -- killing one then the next stepping in. After those three... a ghost flew over my head ...Did I beat it? Did I let it free to kill a town or two? Nope. That didn't happen. That was the end story wise. The unique item I got was a necklace, a necklace that gave +30 to health, stamina and magic. That was basically it. I was immediately pissed. I still am. There is no reason why the quest should have ended in that way. I scoured the map to get here and this -- this is my reward. Repeat boss fights, a ghost, and a necklace that I've easily out-made -- heck, I've found better.I couldn't tell you how long it took from beginning of the quest to the end, but I think it's more than the time spent getting Smithing and Enchanting to 100. On that note, the whole 'time spent' thing is odd to me. I don't know when or how or -- what do I count? Does the time to find it in the first place count? If it took 1 hour to get a unique item and 5 hours to get Smithing to 100, wouldn't Smithing get you 4 or 5 armor pieces and weapons get you better time spent over all? Do prerequisites count? With Smithing, I could get a lot of ingots through buying, do I count the time spent getting that money? With quests, I need to be a certain level to have it available, do I count the time it took to get to that level? It's all very unclear to me. If I may inject myself into this debate. I think the idea that time spent getting something should equal better reward is a bit silly. No game actually has this system. It just follows a very linear path. You play the game, level up, stuff gets stronger, rinse and repeat. The idea that you must spend X amount of hours to get Y doesn't automatically mean that Y should be a really good item. Rather it should be a unique item that is worth the time spent. And in that regard I believe that the real injustice is that you spend so much time getting smithing good only to gain the ability to improve vanilla items. Cause crafting just gives you easy access to in game items. The only weapons that are unique enough to warrant the time are dragonbone items as you have to kill a goddamn dragon and then smith its bones. But spending time in smithing shouldn't entitle you to getting better weapons. It should entitle you to unlocking unique weapons. But that's just me.
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Drakxii
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Dec 28 2012, 01:20 PM
Post #67
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That quest is actually pretty low level. You don't need to be a set level to get it, you just need to stumble on one of the dungeons or find a book to start it.
So they had to choose between giving you a good item at level they expect you to find the quest at, give you a really powerful item that make it so you don't even need to look for better loot, or make it level to when you find it which no one seems to want.
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Piph0
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Dec 28 2012, 08:47 PM
Post #68
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Milkman
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- Drakxii
- Dec 28 2012, 01:20 PM
That quest is actually pretty low level. You don't need to be a set level to get it, you just need to stumble on one of the dungeons or find a book to start it.
So they had to choose between giving you a good item at level they expect you to find the quest at, give you a really powerful item that make it so you don't even need to look for better loot, or make it level to when you find it which no one seems to want. What quest?
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Drakxii
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Dec 28 2012, 09:46 PM
Post #69
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- Piph0
- Dec 28 2012, 08:47 PM
- Drakxii
- Dec 28 2012, 01:20 PM
That quest is actually pretty low level. You don't need to be a set level to get it, you just need to stumble on one of the dungeons or find a book to start it.
So they had to choose between giving you a good item at level they expect you to find the quest at, give you a really powerful item that make it so you don't even need to look for better loot, or make it level to when you find it which no one seems to want.
What quest? The Forbidden Legend quest you were referencing in your post.
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Piph0
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Dec 29 2012, 01:19 PM
Post #70
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Milkman
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- Drakxii
- Dec 28 2012, 09:46 PM
- Piph0
- Dec 28 2012, 08:47 PM
- Drakxii
- Dec 28 2012, 01:20 PM
That quest is actually pretty low level. You don't need to be a set level to get it, you just need to stumble on one of the dungeons or find a book to start it.
So they had to choose between giving you a good item at level they expect you to find the quest at, give you a really powerful item that make it so you don't even need to look for better loot, or make it level to when you find it which no one seems to want.
What quest?
The Forbidden Legend quest you were referencing in your post. Sorry, I didn't remember that quest had a book.
I would see your point if the quest was easy to find, like the quest The Legend of Red Eagle, and had low requirements on the player part aka didn't make the player track all over the map. To see what I am talking about, look up ALL the items and the locations to complete the The Forbidden Legend quest; keep in mind the time needed to find them without a guide.
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