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Roleplaying and Writing Questions
Topic Started: Feb 25 2013, 01:20 AM (237 Views)
Warden of Wisdom
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The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent. -Carl Sagan
So, while writing a story for my D&D party, as I am the DM, I encountered a problem. While reading over some of the debates I've had about fantasy games on this forum, more and more questions begin to appear within by head. Because I'm an aspiring writer and DM, these questions could do with answers.

How do I display and define a culture in my writing, or RP, without blatantly comparing it to real life?
I encounter this problem mainly in my RP, as I've been able to execute it in my writing pretty well so far. One example is that an empire in my lore, Archaicus, is based off of late Medieval and Renaissance culture, such as the Holy Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire. I can use certain things to get this across, like mentioning the use of buttresses and cathedrals in their architecture, and showing the religious based and totalitarian government, but it doesn't come off as clear as it should. I can't just go out and say about some city "It's supposed to be High Medieval Rome." because that breaks immersion. And when I do use the implementation of architecture, religion, and politics, it turns out to be a plain ripoff rather than a heavily influenced, but distinct, culture like I intend.

How do allow players/protagonists to defeat the antagonist without it coming down to a battle?
This is something that always tortures me. Whether it be in writing, television, movies, video games, or RPing, the climax of every story, no matter how good the story, comes down to whether or not the protagonist is stronger than the antagonist. It's stupid. Prime example: every video game ever, pretty much. The antagonist it so arrogant/strong/foolish, whatever it is, that he believes he can beat the protagonist in a good old fashion fight. But wait! The protagonist has the holy sword/secret power/destiny, and prevails! Never, ever, ever, is it MORE than just a fight. If you can beat the hell out of the guy and kill him, you prevail. Quite frankly, I hate it.
An author who writes fantasy and has been able to avoid this exceptionally is Steven Erikson. Tolkein kind of did it with the ring rather than Frodo just beating the shit out of Sauron, and GoT does it wonderfully with politics. The question is, how do I get the players in a RP to do this?

Examples of video games where the resolution comes down to who has bigger muscles, and who wins the battle:
Video Game Spoilers Ahead


I honestly don't know how I can get the party/protagonist to prevail over the antagonist(s) without it coming down to killing them in an epic battle. There's nothing wrong with epic battles, but it gets old.

How do I avoid punishing the players for roleplaying their character?
Maybe a player is a murderous villain (Chaotic Evil) who just murdered an old woman. Any sane guard in the city would call for help and attack on sight. What if the player is too weak to take on 10,000 guards? Sure, I can say "From the corner of your eye you notice a dark alley, perhaps you can escape", but it's neither realistic nor fair to do this every time. So how do I allow a player to play their character without punishing them too harshly, but at the same time remaining realistic.
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ViperKang
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If I may as I like to dabble in creative writing. About your first question. No culture in fantasy or sci-fi ISN'T a blatant rip-off of real life. Look at any fictional culture and you'll find comparisons to real life countries, kingdoms and empires. The thing is you can't have it be like Fallout New Vegas' Legion. Although to be fair they mentioned that they were ripping off Roman culture. It's not a bad thing that Archaicus has very obvious Roman architecture. There are only so many ways to build a building. As long as someone sees the Roman influence but doesn't go "Dude we may as well be in Rome" then I think you have done well in making a unique culture that borrows from real life.

As for you second question there are many ways. You could have the protagonist use politics like in Game of Thrones. The protagonist could also use persuasion and rally a mob to threaten the antagonist who then gives up their power in exchange for life. You could even have a game of wits where the protagonist and antagonist must accomplish something and the loser bows out honorably. Imagination is your only limitation. Epics fights ARE awesome but real life isn't solved by epic fights even some of the time. That's why people love them. Because real life almost never has them.

As for punishing characters the only one who decides if there should be punishment is the character them self. If, let's take your example, a character murders a pure innocent in broad daylight for no reason then that character should face what punishment is applicable. If no one is around then they do a victory jig and move on. Sure it's horrible but the area was already described as empty so not much you could do. it would be unfair to dislike the action and suddenly DM a patrol.

Now if you had established that the area HAD regular patrols and the character STILL does the murder knowing there's the possibility to be caught then they shouldn't be surprised when a patrol sees them and arrests them/kills them depending on the law you've established in that realm as far as murder goes. So punishment is highly situational and if the situation can call for an escape then go for it as no one likes to lose a character but if the situation is set up in a way that that character stands to be punished and realistically WOULD be then by all means. Only person who would fault you would be someone who feels the DM should protect player characters over realism.
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Warden of Wisdom
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The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent. -Carl Sagan
ViperKang
Feb 25 2013, 01:50 AM
it would be unfair to dislike the action and suddenly DM a patrol.
Oh, fine. I see how it is.
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Warden of Wisdom
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The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent. -Carl Sagan
Oh, and another question that I somehow missed.

How do I show a people as neither being good nor evil?

This is a HUGE one in my lore. I hate having good races and bad races. While it works for some lores, like Warhammer Fantasy, it's not how I imagine my lore. For example, I try to show that the Dark Elf people are misunderstood and hated because of an empire, ruled by Dark Elves, that is based off of a religion that revolves around murder and cruelty. The reason they follow this religion is because they worship a god who tells them that the if an individual suffers in their life and eventual death, then this god enlightens them and takes them into their afterlife for their "forced sacrifice." The idea is that that they have suffered so much that they have become a living defiance of the world and the lies of its inhabitants, that they are in turn nourished and purified in the afterlife. It's pretty much the more you suffer, the more you receive in the afterlife. Thus, this empire wishes to 'save' the rest of the world by what they believe is right.

The dilemma is that it's blatantly apparent that they're supposed to be evil. I don't want them to be. I want them to be to the point where someone could argue in favor of them being a good and just empire, due to their intention of taking the rest of the world to paradise. But it is not so.

Another example is Sylvan and Arcane Elves. The have the generic fantasy "graceful and beautiful, intelligent" ect. ect. description. But I don't want them to be the perfect race. They have to reflect in their culture and history a side of them where one may say they are evil. The reason being is that I strive for a world where no nation or people is good or evil, like in real life. Thus, I express in their culture a lack of tolerance for other religions, as well as an arrogance due to their natural immortality. Many believe themselves to be the perfect race, and go so far as to begin extermination and genocide of other races. This is supposed to be the 'bad side' of them.

But I always encounter the problem in my lore where a nation or people appears to be good or evil, and even after close examination they swing heavily in one way or another.
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ViperKang
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I think YOU see them as good and evil because you have these set notions of good and evil from real life. What you have to do is get lost in THEIR world. That Dark Elf empire? I can argue for them right now.

Argument-They are selfless beings who love the world and it's inhabitants and wish to spread the promise of eternal bliss in the after life for the small price of immense suffering here in this life. And who could look at them and deem them evil when their one wish is to bring the world into the bliss their god promises them every day?

See? They are only evil to those who don't believe what they believe. Evil is perspective. The world truly IS neutral. It's US who create the black and white, right and wrong and in my opinion for good reason. Let's take the Elvish races you mentioned. I can see the evil there. BEHOLD!

Argument-Those elves and their arrogance and pride. Taking natural good looks, physical ability and intelligence and pretending like it puts them above everyone else. They are no more than snobbish whelps who don't know what a hard life really is. And they deem to look DOWN upon others as inferior! The absolute nerve! One day they will be brought down from on high and realize they aren't above the rest of us like they pretend to be.

Now this is all my opinion and maybe I'm a warped human being. Who knows? But I think that your races are much closer to neutral than you think. Take a character from the Marvel universe for example. If you don't already know him there's a cosmic being called Thanatos. He lives for nothing else than killing as many beings as he possibly can. Now your first thought is "He loves killing and only wants to kill as much as he can?! EVIL!!!" But the reason behind it makes him a grey character. He kills to impress Death who is a physical being in that universe and is a woman. So suddenly he's not some psychopath but a man courting a woman. Does that excuse his trying to murder all life? It depends on who you ask. Same with your races. Is a race of elves hell bent on torture under the impression they are saving your immortal soul evil? I dunno. Ask the multitudes of elves torturing people to save their souls. I wonder what they would say?
Edited by ViperKang, Feb 25 2013, 02:27 AM.
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Warden of Wisdom
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The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent. -Carl Sagan
Yes, I could go the depends on who you ask route, but the fact that the Dark Elves are torturing and murdering people inherently sets them as evil to 99.9% of readers. Even if one is empathetic and sees it from their point of view, they would be hesitant to say their neutral, yet alone good.

And with the other elves, I also don't want to brand the ENTIRE race as arrogant supremacists, but rather a common stereotype. The trick is that when one looks at their history, they often rush to the aid of needy and hopeless people to save them, making them "good". Although there are a few historical accounts of elves doing what many would judge as evil, not to mention they are torn by civil unrest. In the Elven lands, there's usually about 100 civil wars going on at once.
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BrigandMarx
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Are you sure its 99.9% of the readers?

It is a problem when people aren't able to see the bigger picture/see beyond the action of other characters and to try to understand them.As it stalls into the just black or just white people.

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