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| [USA] Election Topic; For the 2012 USA presidential election | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 12 2012, 03:27 PM (2,074 Views) | |
| Fjord Mustang | Apr 13 2012, 10:43 PM Post #11 |
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Sounds like we have some very similar views. I like the Green Libertarian term. Very nice. I do believe people should be able to live their own lives, so long as they are not harming others' life and liberty and safety. Within that framework, I like what you are saying. Edited by Fjord Mustang, Apr 13 2012, 10:47 PM.
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"And now each night, I count the stars. And each night I get the same number. And when the stars won't come to be counted, I count the holes they leave." — Amiri Baraka (Leroi Jones) ** Signature art designed by Gumdrop Ch4rms *** | |
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| Gumdrop Ch4rms | Apr 14 2012, 02:01 AM Post #12 |
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Asgard's Finest
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It'd be nice if people could take of other people But it seems people like taking care of themselves, they have to take care of themselves before others they don't even know. I don't have a problem with a government stepping in to help. I like a government that is willing to help out the people hard on their luck because other people won't - they have too many of their own problems to stop and worry about others right now.
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| AvannaK | Apr 14 2012, 02:29 AM Post #13 |
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Agent of the Alterverse
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Pretty much everything ch4rms said right there. It would be nice if people were able to watch each other's backs like that, and they can with friends and family and general strangers, but the truth is we need order and government for the larger picture. Community is one thing, structure and support are necessary when it comes to caring for the population of an entire country. I also think Obama should have another term in office. Yes, he promised a lot but only getting four years to undo at least eight years of damage is hardly enough time at all. I never expected to see big changes when he went in office, I just expected him to start braking on the destructive bus America hopped on, and I thought it was a bit ridiculous how many complaints he got right off the bat given the absolute ******** (<--can't say that) he inherited. It's going to be a long, slow uphill battle to get so much back in order and what Americans need to do is be supportive and proactive, not negative and whiny. I'm thinking (hoping) one more term and we'd really finally be able to see some things turn around. |
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| The Fishbone | Apr 14 2012, 07:04 PM Post #14 |
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Frankly I disagree. His birth certificate was not physically released. And while whether or not being a natural-born citizen affects ability to lead - it is required. Also, Obama (and the current Congress) has not only hopped on the "bus", they have given it gas (as in, 'sped-up'). If Obama gets another term we may run off the road altogether. Edited by The Fishbone, Apr 14 2012, 07:08 PM.
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| Night Fury | Apr 14 2012, 07:40 PM Post #15 |
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As a matter of fact, he released it last year: http://articles.cnn.com/2011-04-27/politics/obama.birth.certificate_1_birther-movement-president-barack-obama-birth-certificate?_s=PM:POLITICS |
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| Fjord Mustang | Apr 14 2012, 09:54 PM Post #16 |
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Interesting discussion on community support and government support! I do believe national and state government needs to be there to provide essential things a society needs like security, police and firemen, national defense, health care issues and standards, minimum wage standards, welfare support that involves work service and future job training/apprentice and internship programs with businesses , education standards and managing reasonable loan programs for students (education in the USA is a state and local mandate rather than national except for some Title programs) protecting minors, protecting people from unethical business practices that endanger life, keeping the infrastructure in place and, very important for me, protecting the natural environment. These are a lot of responsibilities for government, but to me it is protecting basic rights and then creating opportunities for people to build on rather than having the government make all the decisions. I also think it's an important element to foster citizens to take care of each other- that is, take more personal responsibility in helping make life good in your community. The basic community is where it all starts. It does sound corny, I agree, but encouraging people to take greater civic responsibility is something that has declined a lot in America since the 1940s. Apparently, there used to be courses in Civics taught in grade school to teach people community responsibility and being respectful to each other. I get the impression my grandparents were far more community minded than my generation (Generation X, famous for our materialism and self absorbtion and blaming the other guy always. I was always a bit of a misfit for wanting to do volunteer service and majoring in something that did not have anything that made lots of money- such as business management and finance, law or medicine). I am hoping the generations that followed mine are more community and service minded than we GenX's have been. As for Obama, I do agree he needs more time. One of my overall concerns with US politics is that it has become incredibly bipartisan with extreme right Republicans and extreme left Democrats. It seems there are only two parties, Republican and Democrat (even though we have 5 major parties and 36 minor parties, according to Wikipedia). But the Republican and Democratic parties have become so dominant and bi polar that they won't support each other's views, taking the extreme view of their party. There don't seem to be enough moderates from both parties that some compromise can be reached on issues. This seemed to be a concern Olivia Snow from Maine had when she resigned from her position- things have become too extreme left and too extreme right. More moderates are needed. There certainly are a lot of moderates out there, and hopefully they will get more involved in politics now. Edited by Fjord Mustang, Apr 14 2012, 10:20 PM.
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| Gumdrop Ch4rms | Apr 14 2012, 10:00 PM Post #17 |
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Asgard's Finest
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If Obama wasn't born in the U.S. or on U.S. Territory then he wouldn't be president, period. He wouldn't have been able to run for president and him currently being president means he was born a natural citizen. They do fact checks before this kind of stuff, and the questionably of his citizenship just sounds like an issue brought up by people who don't like the fact he's the president/was running for president whether because of his affiliation or his skin color, whatever the reason. I mean if Tiger Woods ran for President are people going to claim he's not a U.S. Citizen because his mother is Thai and therefore he was born in Thailand when he clearly has a record of birth from California? It's about the same logic as people claiming Obama was born in Kenya because his father is Kenyan when his birth record has been released. He was born in Hawaii. Which is part of the United States last I checked. @Fjord I find it an interesting point when you mentioned everyone in politics or being noticed in politics are being extreme right or extreme left and It made me what constitutes 'Extreme' in the individual opinion? Edited by Gumdrop Ch4rms, Apr 14 2012, 10:28 PM.
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| Night Fury | Apr 14 2012, 11:39 PM Post #18 |
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Extreme left is pure communism and extreme right is fascism? The distinctions actually become quite muddled at the extremes, because if you go too far in one direction, you start taking on attributes of the opposite extreme. That's why I much prefer the political compass model with four quadrants, as opposed to the traditional left-right model. Either way though, the Democrats are about as moderate as you can get. Obama certainly does not represent the extreme left by any stretch of the imagination. -he supports the free enterprise system -he supports the right to bear arms, with common sense regulations -he supports capital punishment in the most extreme cases -he is not in favour of same-sex marriage (he only supports civil unions) |
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| Night Fury | Apr 14 2012, 11:56 PM Post #19 |
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Good post. I definitely agree with this. I consider myself a libertarian of sorts, but I recognize that a complex society cannot function without some degree of socialism. What I would term "pure" libertarianism is more of an ideal, rather than something that is realistic at this point in time, especially for a country as diverse and large as the USA. In an ideal world, all people would make the right choices, no one would ever need welfare, everyone could find a well-paying job, health care would be easily affordable, everyone could afford to send their kids to private school, no one would have kids they couldn't afford to support, and everyone would respect the environment. Since it's obvious that those things are not about to happen, we still need those government institutions to help us run things. |
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| Fjord Mustang | Apr 15 2012, 01:20 AM Post #20 |
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@Gumdrop- Thanks for the question. I agree with your point about extreme- it should not be extreme in our government. And yet the most vocal voices for the Republican party and the Democrat party are the extreme voices, not the middle ground voices. And the reactions of the Congress seem to be that Republicans block Democratic ideas and Democrats block Republican ideas. There seems to be no understanding the actual issue at hand, rather it becomes some platform to debate extreme right and exreme right ideas. But there is no resolution in the end, just taking sides and not trying to mediate or compromise. |
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But it seems people like taking care of themselves, they have to take care of themselves before others they don't even know. I don't have a problem with a government stepping in to help. I like a government that is willing to help out the people hard on their luck because other people won't - they have too many of their own problems to stop and worry about others right now.




4:45 AM Jul 11