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| [USA] Election Topic; For the 2012 USA presidential election | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 12 2012, 03:27 PM (2,072 Views) | |
| Night Fury | Oct 18 2012, 12:27 PM Post #31 |
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I haven't really been paying much attention, but the debates are pretty much a travesty anyway. |
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| Fjord Mustang | Oct 18 2012, 03:55 PM Post #32 |
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I Don't Really Look Like This. Usually.
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I've been strangely blank about the debates as well. I more enjoy listening to National Public Radio since they do well dissecting the debate points and whether they were accurate or not. To me this particular election campaign has been very disappointing and much more mudslinging and bi polar party lines than usual. Some of it evokes the earlier times in the USA (19th century) when such debates and politicking was quite the public display. Not that I lived back then, of course, but some of the accounts people have written have shown how crazy things could get. I am always disappointed that third parties don't get to participate in debates-- the last time was in the 1990s with Ross Perault's Independent Party. This is the kind of stuff I wish we saw more regarding Third Parties-- http://www.npr.org/2012/10/06/162438686/the-npr-third-party-candidate-debate @ Night Fury-- what are your impressions regarding election campaigns and debates for Canadian election candidates? I was in Ottawa during election periods a few years ago and enjoyed seeing all the bilingual signage. |
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"And now each night, I count the stars. And each night I get the same number. And when the stars won't come to be counted, I count the holes they leave." — Amiri Baraka (Leroi Jones) ** Signature art designed by Gumdrop Ch4rms *** | |
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| Night Fury | Oct 18 2012, 04:48 PM Post #33 |
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I'm not completely in love with the concept of live debates. At best, they can only show how well a candidate is able to think on their feet, but that's hardly the most valuable characteristic for a leader. I think that careful deliberation and reflection on the issues are far more valuable traits. I think that the nature of the debates we're seeing says something about society today -- we are more concerned with how well a candidate can attack opposing viewpoints, or how charismatic and well-spoken they are, than who is most qualified for the position. If a candidate fails to attack their opponent, if they stutter, or are soft-spoken, they automatically lose credibility in the eyes of the public. As for the Canadian debates -- one positive is that we have four leaders debating rather than two. I think you need a minimum of three people for a proper debate, and ideal number is probably four or five. Having more than two people allows more time for each candidate to formulate their arguments, lessening the temptation to resort to easy attacks. That said, it still tends to devolve into mud-slinging occasionally. I don't think our system is perfect by any means. Having more choices is good in one way, but the downside to a multi-party system is that a party can and often does win with much less than 50% of the vote. A better way to deal with this is by forming coalition governments, which is common in some European countries. The spirit of cooperation seems much stronger there; I'm not sure the same thing would work in North America. Edited by Night Fury, Oct 18 2012, 04:52 PM.
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| Anhedral | Oct 19 2012, 01:24 AM Post #34 |
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Night Fury
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I only caught a fragment of the last presidential debate and was appalled by how confrontational it was. To be honest, I switched it off. I was interested in learning about some of the issues, not in the theatre of two grown men trying to score points off of one another. Naive of me? Well, perhaps. We do get pretty decent coverage of US politics from the domestic BBC broadcasting here in the UK. I'll just listen to that from now on. @Night Fury - I have a lot of sympathy with what you say. We've had a coalition government here since 2010 and it's interesting to see how the dynamic has changed. Things started off with huge optimism for a new spirit of co-operation, but unfortunately this rapidly degenerated into the sort of mud-slinging and personal attacks that we were all so familiar with. It's plain that the coalition partners (Liberals and Conservatives) really share very little common ground; their mutual distrust and dislike wastes a lot of time as they dance around each other trying to sound polite. I think things are a little better in other European countries, particularly with memories of the Cold War and WW2 still fairly fresh. But in the UK, we have a long history of confrontational politics that we seem incapable of weaning ourselves from. To those who live outside the US, it's always interesting to see the different emphasis placed on domestic vs. foreign policies by the candidates. Without wanting to sound partisan, I have to say that in this respect Mitt Romney didn't exactly cover himself in glory on his visit to the UK earlier this year. He came across as ill-informed and even managed to offend the current prime minister here, who as a UK Conservative politician should have been a natural ally. It's difficult to imagine Obama making such gaffs. Edited by Anhedral, Oct 19 2012, 01:25 AM.
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| Backroads | Oct 19 2012, 10:23 AM Post #35 |
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Proclaimer of Book Wisdom
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I missed the first one, saw the last two. Entertaining to watch, but I personally feel I, the voter, haven't learned anything new about either candidate. |
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| Night Fury | Oct 22 2012, 09:28 PM Post #36 |
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I have found that Wikipedia is a decent resource for learning about the candidate's positions. They show how their opinions on issues have evolved over time, so you can get a better idea of whether they're becoming more conservative or liberal, or just contradicting themselves to score points. That's something you won't see in the debates, or in the official party platforms. Political positions of Mitt Romney: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Mitt_Romney Political positions of Barack Obama: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Barack_Obama Political positions of Gary Johnson (Libertarian): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Gary_Johnson It's a bit harder to find this detailed info on the other parties, so it's best to refer to their respective web sites: Jill Stein (Green): http://www.jillstein.org/issues Virgil Goode (Constitution): http://www.goodeforpresident2012.com/the-issues.html Rock Anderson (Justice): http://www.voterocky.org/solutions |
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| Backroads | Oct 23 2012, 12:41 PM Post #37 |
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Proclaimer of Book Wisdom
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Well, I feel comfortable in my planned election ballot (I'm considering just voting early today). I will say my pick for president is NOT either of the two main guys (yes, I realize a lot of people are against picking candidates from other parties). The only thing I'm stuck on is an ammendment to my state's consitution. I guess I'll just continue to ponder it. |
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| Fjord Mustang | Oct 24 2012, 04:42 PM Post #38 |
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I Don't Really Look Like This. Usually.
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@ NightFury- thanks for your answer on Canadian politics. That was great to read @Anhedral- I haven't watched any of the debates because they disgust me. I heard them on the radio and listened to our public radio dissect the arguments, which was helpful since people lie so well with stats and words. But I hate in general the whole circus it's become. Last night the Third Party debates were broadcast with presentations by the candidates from the Green party, Justice Party, Libertarian Party and Constitution Party. These were not debates so much as the different parties presenting their positions on topics submitted by Americans via social media. It was more real, less polished, and more focused on issues rather than name calling and coming across as speaking well or looking good. The person I was planning to vote for did a very good job of presenting solutions rather than ideas. It was nice that people could see there are more parties than the Big Two. The sad irony was this debate could only be broadcast online. No television channel in the US carried it. Only Al Jazeera- English did. Now, that is irony for you! You can check it out at this link. There will be a second debate on Oct 30, 2012 between the candidates focusing on foreign policy issues. Edited by Fjord Mustang, Oct 24 2012, 04:42 PM.
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"And now each night, I count the stars. And each night I get the same number. And when the stars won't come to be counted, I count the holes they leave." — Amiri Baraka (Leroi Jones) ** Signature art designed by Gumdrop Ch4rms *** | |
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| Backroads | Oct 25 2012, 10:31 AM Post #39 |
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Proclaimer of Book Wisdom
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I did vote for a third-party candidate (sooo nice to have voting out of the way.) THis might be naive, but I feel more comfortable about voting for someone based on his ideologies rather than his ability to talk about vague plans. |
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| Night Fury | Nov 9 2012, 04:44 PM Post #40 |
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Well, it's over. Thoughts? I'm personally satisfied that Barack Obama won a second term, even though I wouldn't necessarily have voted for him. The way I see it, if Bush deserved two terms, Obama certainly deserves at least that much. Four years was simply not enough time to undo the damage from the global economic downturn, nor was it long enough to reverse eight years of Bush policy. People who voted for Obama in '08 hoping for miracles need to realize this, and I think that for the most part the American public understand what he was up against. Republicans will finally have to bend a little and work with Democrats if they want to avoid a worsening of the fiscal situation. On a lighter note, here's some... uh, interesting reactions: http://imgur.com/a/ms8k0 http://imgur.com/a/WPCit |
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