Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Sticks And Stones! We're an HTTYD fan forum. Feel free to have a look around and stay awhile; whether you want to talk about the movie, post some fanwork, or just kick back and relax with us, we can't wait to have you!

If you'd like, join our community!

If you're already registered, just log in below:


Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Healthcare mandate passed
Topic Started: Jun 29 2012, 12:06 PM (2,738 Views)
Night Fury
Member Avatar


Eyes Wide Open
Jul 11 2012, 10:13 PM
Please take the time to review the video below.
It is well worth the seven minutes.

Obamacare explained

EWO
Interesting points. I agree that demand for healthcare will increase, but I'm not sure if that increase will be proportionate to the amount of extra insurance money collected. That idea rests on the assumption that all healthy people will start going to the doctor more often regardless of need. I think only time will tell whether or not that is true.

A very good point was raised in that no one shops around for cheaper health care, because insurance covers the cost. Doctors can basically charge whatever they feel like, and insurance companies have no choice but to pay and raise premiums to compensate. This is certainly not exclusive to Obama-care, though it may be exacerbated by it.

As a better alternative, a government health insurance program could have a cap on what doctors could charge for a specific procedure. For example, a hospital might be allowed to bill a maximum of $1000 for an MRI, and there could be incentives for doctors to offer even cheaper services.

Delete Post Delete Post Delete Post Goto Top
 
Eyes Wide Open
Member Avatar
Gronckle
There was a report earlier this week of a poll stating that up to83% of ALL doctors would consider quitting if Obamacare is implemented. That is one of the reasons it was pointed out in the video. Your recommendation would solidify their response when you consider how much a college education costs in general. A pre-med education followed by med school extends the costs that are the responsibility of the degree earner.

So what do we do?

I'll have an idea that I'd like to share tomorrow. It's late.

Best.
EWO
Delete Post Delete Post Delete Post Goto Top
 
Night Fury
Member Avatar


College education is ridiculously expensive. That's a long and complex topic in and of itself.

I see some varying opinions amongst doctors. [link]http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeedshift/doctors-react-to-the-survival-of-obamacare[/link]

The one quote that struck me was this:

"Everyone's made up their mind long before the ruling, and it splits according to what kind of specialty they are in. The surgeons and cardiologists tend to be against Obamacare but the primary care and family doctors tend to be for it. They're really made up along politically ideologies and not related to substance. If they make a lot of money they want to keep on making a lot of money, and if they don't they'd like to give better patient care."

I am interested to hear your idea, though.

Delete Post Delete Post Delete Post Goto Top
 
Azdgari
Member Avatar
Founder + Goofball

The best way I can characterize my views on the subject are this: it's akin to plugging holes in the hull of a ship that's so heavy it'll sink anyway. I think that it addresses a lot of problems and injustices in the system (forces companies to justify rate hikes, stops allowing them to drop sick patients or preclude children with pre-existing conditions, makes domestic violence screening more accessible for women, etc). It also has the mandate, which I like. If you don't have health insurance and need care, you A) financially destroy yourself and B) pass on the cost to everyone else in the system.

However, privatized medicine will never be financially viable in my opinion. America's healthcare is the most expensive in the world by a ludicrous amount and not even close to the best or most efficient care or most complete coverage. I think we need to get over our terror of the word "socialist" and finally go single payer like the rest of the developing world has done successfully. Now more than ever, with the deficit and all that.


A teenager's two cents. ;3
Delete Post Delete Post Delete Post Goto Top
 
Backroads
Member Avatar
Proclaimer of Book Wisdom

I'm not entirely opposed to a national health care, but the way I see it, the plan had better be all or none. I actually believe a completely privatized system would help--as in one without Medicaid, Medicare, etc. (where doctors can charge what they like because the Medis or whatever insurance usually picks up the tab), where doctors would be forced to full-on compete price- and care-wise for patients. On the other hand, a purely national one-payer system would also solve a lot of problems.

It's the inbetween state we're in that seems to cause so many problems--trying to have both worlds isn't working.

As it is, I hate being told I have to purchase something. I don't think that's fair, I don't think the government has any right to interfere in private decisions, and this could potentially force middle class people into a poorer state.
Edited by Backroads, Jul 14 2012, 06:12 PM.
Posted Image

*Thanks to Gumdrop Ch4rms
Delete Post Delete Post Delete Post Goto Top
 
Night Fury
Member Avatar


@Backroads

Yeah, a truly privatized, non insurance-based, completely free market system is something that could actually work. That way, the free market could function unencumbered by insurance. People would be forced to shop around to get the most for their money, and competition would keep prices low and spur innovation in treatments.

Despite my support for a national health insurance plan, I'm not a big fan of the concept of insurance, in any form. It's kind of like gambling; "the house always wins", meaning that insurance companies always take more money than they give out.

I always buy the minimum amount of any insurance, ie, car insurance. I never buy warranties, and I would never buy life insurance. To me, it makes more sense to manage my own finances and assume any risk, knowing that insurance, on average, will cost me more in the long run.

Unfortunately, most people need insurance because money management skills are a foreign concept to many people. At least with a national health insurance plan, the profit motive of insurance is removed and the government has the ability to monitor prices. It's not a perfect plan, but it does address some of the problems with insurance.

Edited by Night Fury, Jul 14 2012, 10:15 PM.
Delete Post Delete Post Delete Post Goto Top
 
Eyes Wide Open
Member Avatar
Gronckle
And that was the plan that I envision. We have a model for that in the deregulation of the phone industry when you had AT&T (Version 1) and it was better known as MA BELL and the creation of the Baby Bells. Eventually the various statewide regulatory commissions went to the wayside and each of the Baby Bells transfigured into the companies that we have today, namely AT&T (version 2) and Verizon (which was originally Bell Atlantic).

Each company had to be competitive not only in price but in service. Because of that, users today enjoy options and items that were never considered as recently as ten years ago.

So when you buy the minimum amount of insurance or 'service' then that should cover basic 'catastrophic' events. More expensive, 'gold plated' coverage would cover other services such as checkups or wellness programs. 'Diamond plated' coverage could include all services up to and including elective procedures (cosmetic surgery, implants, liposuction).

EWO
Edited by Eyes Wide Open, Jul 14 2012, 10:46 PM.
Delete Post Delete Post Delete Post Goto Top
 
Azdgari
Member Avatar
Founder + Goofball

I don't think I like the idea of healthcare being entirely a business. There's a huge moral difference between privatizing the cell phone industry and privatizing medical care. The primary goal of business is making money. The primary goal of healthcare is, well, healthcare. We're already seeing the way these clash, with insurance companies precluding people with existing conditions and dumping sick patients. Do you really think fully privatized will put the patients first?


We need a summer skin don't we?

*runs off and finds one*
Delete Post Delete Post Delete Post Goto Top
 
CrazyTrace
Member Avatar
Night Fury
I agree, AZ, but I also kind of see the point of privatizing. Doctors are not out to volunteer, at least not 100% of the time in all cases (the ones who do have the financial ability to do so). To many doctors, healthcare is a trade at which they specialize and, as Backroads as made me ware, they deserve to handle their trade like anyone else with a trade.

I believe the point of the healthcare mandate--at least one of the points--was to allow doctors to do their thing but put more requirements on insurance companies to get that money to the doctors.

As for privatization putting patients first, I think it depends on your moral code. I really really really like the idea of nationalized healthcare, personally, and like many aspects of the healthcare mandate.

However, here's this proposition in a fully pritavitized system: Patient needs care. Doctor needs to feed his family. Being that it takes a while for any doctor to make the moola we think they all have, is it right that a doctor should sacrifice a day's wages because a patient has no money? Is it right that a patient should avoid finding a way to pay back the doctor for the received care? Or is it preferable a doctor does without for awhile in order to help a patient, without the ability to pay, in need? It's kind of a tough question, and I don't think there's any one right answer.

Keep in mind, I come from an area where a hospital was hours away and the local doctor wasn't that much richer than anyone else. Dilemmas like this actually happened.

I suppose it all boils down to the age-old political debate of equal outcome vs personal freedom.
Delete Post Delete Post Delete Post Goto Top
 
CrazyTrace
Member Avatar
Night Fury
As it is, I don't think privatization would necessarily put patients last. It would just put more responsibility on patients to be personally prepared/be ready to offer a trade solution and on the doctors to be more charitable, when possible.

Personally, I like the idea of a nationalized system because it seems to be a simple way to keep the doctors cared for as well as the patients without too much drama. Though I have heard negative stories about the not-so-normal medical cases in countries with nationalized health systems. I'd like to know more about how those are handled. Is there any room for private research and specialized healthcare?
Delete Post Delete Post Delete Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Enjoy forums? Start your own community for free.
Learn More · Register for Free
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Dragon's Den · Next Topic »
Add Reply