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What does OPSEC mean...really
Topic Started: Apr 4 2011, 09:15 AM (2,216 Views)
Raven
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When people think of OPSEC they know theoretically what it means but everyone justifies who they tell by saying that they told them that they are not to tell anyone and they trust them yada yada yada...now in theory that works in their head and in theory each and every member of your group should know where things are if things get dicey, HOWEVER, the word OPSEC should be included to mean that those secrets will be told on a need to know basis. Not everyone that will potentially be in your retreat NEEDS to know secrets right now. We have made mistakes in this area and people know things that they really didn't need to know at the time. They in turn told people who "promised not to tell anyone". Because of this lack of security on our part we now have to reconfigure some of our prepping secrets. Some of our more potentially eyebrow raising things will have to be made less of a threat to us and therefore less of a useful fall back measure because people that we didn't think needed to know now know about them. This creates risk in our world that we, in this point in time, really didn't need. In the retreat world even friends/ retreat members don't need to know everything in order to be a part of the group...this lesson comes at a high price for us. It is almost like starting out all over again.
I think of your group when I write this as well. You have members that are not fully commited to the ideal of retreat security, this might be something to remember and keep close to your heart as you hold your meetings.
The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand
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Bullmoose
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I think your right. Opsec isn't only to protect against badguys with guns. The bigger more difficult threat will be people in town who quickly remember they have a good friend or relitive who is prepared for just such an emergency and come knocking on the door. Moreover, those who call themselves a member of the group but lack in much of any stores of their own like you pointed out. It has proven to be a challenge to break the pre-existing survival mindset that is prevolent in this area. The "if something happens I'll be fine because I can hunt deer and grow a garden, I already do that" I know this mindset because it used to be mine. I actually thought because this is so common, it would be the easiest place anywhere to draw members to form a group. Instead, I see a false sense of confidence. This may be a survivable plan in a personal crisis, but in a widespread crisis, everyone with a deer rifle will resort to the same thing.

I recently implemented a weekly requirement list for members to follow week to week. I was hoping I wouldn't have to. But there are one or two members that just need a jumpstart. I think once a program is implemented, it will continue without prompting.
It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.
Samuel Adams
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Raven
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For the members who think that they will just go hunting to eat...ask them how many times they have gone hunting and come home with nothing, then ask them how many times they have gone hunting with others who may or may not be good at hunting, if they have ever hunted with a bunch of non hunters that are starving, have starving families and have no idea how to hunt and therefore have buck fever, and are lurking around every tree. I am curious to know what they think will happen to their results in those conditions
The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand
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Mommacat
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I think that prepping is a highly personal thing and what you store depends in large part on what you feel would be appropriate to have in dire circumstances. I suspect that mandating any certain prepping activity would not have a high degree of success. In addition to that, changing it up so the "fun n games" aspect isn't the focus of the group may lead to disgruntled members who "quit" - well, quit until the local grocery store is empty, that is. I think that one thing that has been overlooked in our group but that is VITAL is the central location of stores or, alternatively, the individual location of stores. I have not been in any meetings where it was discussed that stores would be brought to X location and members would go to the X location in the event of a catastrophe. It is my understanding that members will keep their own stuff and only get together after a disaster. So, then there is the logistical question of; how do you get your 5 years worth of food stores and etc. to the place you're going to be hunkering down? I will be the first to admit that I very possibly just missed that part as I have mostly quit going to meetings. So, its very possible that all this has been discussed and a plan formulated. As any planner of any event would tell you, you BEGIN with the location - then work out the rest of the details - if you're planning a wedding in Chicago, it hardly makes sense to order a cake from Denver and flowers from San Diego, does it? That's the point, I guess - decide where it all should be stashed and then work from there and be mindful that transporting large stores would be hugely problematic for most people. Even if you do own a pickup, can you get all your "stuff" in it and drive it to "wherever" with the last of the gas that's available in the county? Just some random thoughts....
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Raven
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I would disagree with one point only Mommacat. That point would be the mandate of weekly purchases. There is no reason that this couldn't be implimented somewhat like "club dues". You will weed out those who consider it a game but I would consider maybe "group buys" where you all pick out areas where you are lacking, pick out a place to start. If it is alternative energy, figure out how much a barrel of gas will be and divide the cost. Everyone pays their fair share and you store it at the location you will all meet. When it is time to rotate it, everyone who comes to take must also replace. This should be done on a "it belongs to the group" mentality. If anyone leaves for any reason voluntary or otherwise, they will leave the inventory for the group use. You elect someone who does inventory and they will decide on rotation. Just an idea that we are starting to use.
You are spot on, Mommacat, when you say that you start at the beginning. Not having been to any of your meetings, it almost sounds like you are somewhere in the middle with little basis for a group formulated. It sounds like a bunch a guys who get together to play war games and the rest is by the wayside. That is either because you fear the numbers will leave if you don't keep them entertained (you would be better off by far if you weed them out anyway) or it is because you didn't know where to start. If you don't have a designated place to bug out to what are you planning to defend? Just something to think about (or ignore).
The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand
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Mommacat
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I think trying to force people that can barely scrape together enough money to buy food for today to buy anything extra to set aside is bound to fail. I happen to know that some members of our group are in that position and I know of one for sure that gets food support from the State. I think the IDEA of "planned buying" is a good one, and for larger "group purchases" makes perfect sense, but that operates on the premise that people will have some disposable income - many of this group do not. I don't know what the answer is, just like a Democrat, I can clearly identify the problem but can offer no solution. OMG!!! Somebody shoot me NOW!! But, seriously, I think this group formed with the original intent of a sort of para-military defense group and is trying to evolve into a prepping group. I see great progress toward that goal and some of the members have really stepped up, recognized the need, and taken steps toward the goal of being self-sufficient. I do not envy Bull Moose the monumental task of trying to form a cohesive group of well prepared Patriots from a bunch of high school hunting buddies and I think he's doing a wonderful job, but it will just take time. I think the slackers will eventually weed themselves out, which gets back to the original OPSEC premise of "need to know". I know that Bull Moose probably thinks I am unduly paranoid by now, but I honestly believe there is more value in being able to be "invisible" as a prepper than there is to being a good shot with a sidearm - just sayin..... As proof, I offer the fact that most everyone I know thinks I've just given up on the whole idea!! P.S. I still can hit the broad side of a barn - well in good light, anyway! :)
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Grizzly
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I also think that the manditory purchases are nessesary to prevent freeloaders. I can see it already, "I can't"... "I can't"...and then show up with an empty car and ask "when are we eating?" I realize it may be difficult for some but then they should have "something" to trade, labor, experience, some helpfull knowlede to make up for their lack of supplies. Maybe this should be brought up now and be serious about it to wake some up. Actually, I'm kind of thinking that if some haven't woke up by now... well, you know the rest. Time is running out and so is my patience with trying to save the world or just the people around me.
Our ancestors left Europe to get away from this crap...as seen on a bumpersticker fns
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Raven
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How about those that can afford it, pitch in the money and those that can't pitch in labor? Labor = money...For example if the group needs a common orchard then those that can, buy the plants and those that can't, do the planting/tending. Those that can, buy the bulk of fruit in season and those that can't process it into jars to be stored by the group. This could also lead to those that can't put the money aside, organizing and heading up fundraising events like garage sales, car washes, day care centers etc until you have enough to pitch in for the bigger buys. There has to be a way around no money somehow. I don't know what the answer is but I am thinking your first in order would be the place to defend. That being said, we are getting squared away with the stuff but we have no people or practiced means of defense, just ideas and theory. I can tell you that we had one guy out here and we were moving in to see if we could get a shot off at some coyotes and he had no idea how to move quietly in the pasture...stepped on every leaf and loose rock and whispered. NOT his fault, I don't think that he has ever done any hunting, just shooting. Something we NEED to work on...maybe at the FTX?
The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand
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Mommacat
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I am sure Bull Moose will get it squared away - he usually does. I like the idea of sharing labor/money for the common good. Would seem a reasonable way to do it, but with a firm understanding that one is not more valuable than the other. I chuckled when I read about your non-hunter - you're right, shooting is not the same as hunting - not even close!
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Grizzly
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Reminded me of something my son told me once. In his military sniper school, they learned to move quickly and quietly at night with no light. Now that would take some practice.
Our ancestors left Europe to get away from this crap...as seen on a bumpersticker fns
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