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| What does OPSEC mean...really | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 4 2011, 09:15 AM (2,227 Views) | |
| Bullmoose | Apr 8 2011, 04:23 AM Post #11 |
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Well, I'm broke because I don't like to work so we need to implement some special program for me and the like.... But that is another thread. I think I mentioned in a previous thread that we have been cautious about the group paying for improvements to the retreat, I'm sure this issue has come up in the Southern group as well. This has two reasons behind it for us. First, for the time being, it wouldn't seem fair to all members spending money to upgrade one members dwelling and for X amount of time, only benifits him. Secondly, we feel the need to remain completely flexible. If we wrap all of our money into a particular property, and that is where the comet hits, (my latest theory, jk) all that money is wasted. We all have our stores stored individually for the same reason. We do not want to have all of our eggs in one basket. Inconveniant, yes. But I have my families stores devided between 3 locations so all is not lost in the event of theft, fire or even comet-strike. However last night, we voted to purchase and begin construction on an idea much like the buried bus in a carefully chosen location as storage space is quickly becoming an issue. Theft and those darn comits will still be a threat, but this would be much safer than one persons house. Every fire team is responsible for planning exactly how to get each team mate and their stores to the retreat after SHTF. I always base my plan as if there was an EMP because to me, this is worse case scenerio. On a side thought, I am beginning to believe that SHTF may not be a definitive moment, but more a string of "I can't afford driving to the grocery store and buying groceries both this week" moments. |
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It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men. Samuel Adams | |
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| Mommacat | Apr 8 2011, 07:37 AM Post #12 |
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Ah, and the light goes off as a bright idea is spawned! I, too, have been thinking that an EMP would be the most likely "disaster", but I agree, it may be more realistic to plan for that slow slide into another depression where, even if you had money, there would be nothing to buy. Glad to know you're thinking about it and coming up with a viable "Plan B,C,D,E,F,", well you get the idea!! LOL |
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| Grizzly | Apr 8 2011, 09:22 AM Post #13 |
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I've been watching what's going on in Japan and it's exactly as you described, Mommacat. One person that was interveiwed walked 10 miles to a grocery store, cause there was no gas, and then there was only limited grocery items available and allowed to be purchased. They said people have money but there is nothing to buy. That whole thing is something to watch and learn by. I think Bullmoose has some good ideas going, not sure about the comet thing but it's a thought. If you guys are thinking of an underground storage and consider just burying a large item, keep in mind the streangth of it for having any amount of dirt on top of it. Not many things are made with roof streangth. I've checked out many options so if you have any questions I'd be glad to help. |
| Our ancestors left Europe to get away from this crap...as seen on a bumpersticker fns | |
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| Raven | Apr 8 2011, 09:59 AM Post #14 |
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When you put money into one person's property it is like insurance. I felt as you do in the beginning but one of our members explained it to me this way. He said that it was worth it to him and his family to have a prepared place to go and since they consider that worse case senario it could be a long time that we are "in it together". I finally saw what he was saying but we compromised. When we plant the trees, he and his family come up in the fall to help collect and preserve the fruit and we split the harvest 3 ways, one share for us, one share for him and one share to store away for just in case. In another instance he helps me market my pastured pork and that in turn make us money to fence the property which in turn should make it easier to keep predators out. The more money that we make on the animals, the more money that we have to put into the place and the less money we have to come up with to fix our water, put up sheds etc. They, in turn, get a discount on their pork (what it takes to raise it) They have some supplies here and kept enough at home to keep them going short term but only enough to fit into their cars to get here. It works in theory.
Edited by Raven, Apr 8 2011, 10:01 AM.
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| The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand | |
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| Mommacat | Apr 8 2011, 11:17 AM Post #15 |
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That seems like a very workable and fair solution, Raven. I also think it makes a lot of sense to keep stores in a couple differnt places. The only problem I see is the availability of gas to go get your stores if they are very far away. But, I guess a person can't cover absolutely every contingency and so should just do what they can and pray for the best. |
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| Raven | Apr 8 2011, 09:38 PM Post #16 |
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He modified his truck to run on waste veggie oil and has dual tanks and spare carboys of the stuff. You can tell when he is coming...smells like french fries |
| The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand | |
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| Grizzly | Apr 8 2011, 10:10 PM Post #17 |
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Another reason to have some sort of stored fuel for emergencys. The only problem with this modern crap they call "gas", you need to rotate it often. A few years ago a small engine shop told me to never keep gas more than 30 days cause it will already begin to break down. We have a 300 gal. farm barrel that I only use for tractors, lawn mower, and winter snow removal when I can't get out. On average I fill it twice a year and have not had any problems but that may be cause of the bulk amount. I have had gas go bad in small quantities. You can usually tell by the smell of a strong gas odor or a rotten, varnish smell just like wood working finishes. I've heard you shouldn't use plastic containers for fuel storage cause it will breathe and deteriate the fuel. I have a collection of old military cans that I hope will work good if you keep them in a cool place. All fuel stores better underground if you have that option. Another solution would be diesel. It stores much longer and some people I know have even converted over to running cooking oil which is free and stores indefinatly. |
| Our ancestors left Europe to get away from this crap...as seen on a bumpersticker fns | |
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| Bullmoose | Apr 9 2011, 12:27 AM Post #18 |
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Fuel (gasoline) storage has been a challenging topic for us due to the 10% ethynol content and the resulting short shelf life. We have an EMP-proof truck that we have as a contingency. It's a '55 Chevy we keep tuned up that we can use as a stores pick up unit. Other than that truck we have decided not to rely on gas operated equipment and adjust accordingly. Luckily for us, there is a likeminded Septic Tank manufacturer with ties to the group that will sell us a 1400 gallon tank (cracked) for the cost of the concrete. Important that he is one of us, because a septic tank delivery guy would be a definate breach of OPSEC. |
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It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men. Samuel Adams | |
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| Grizzly | Apr 9 2011, 08:16 AM Post #19 |
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I have a 63 chevy all redone for the same reason. Your septic tank plan sounds great. I don't think we could even buy one around here without county supervision and permits. Is the size you might get high enough to stand up in? Most I've seen here are pretty short in height. They would still be a nice storage container. I checked on cement block today for a root cellar and they happen to be on sale so I might try to at least get them home and plan a time line for building later this summer. So far I'm thinking on a 10ft x15ft with 7ft walls. The finished size depends on digging and materials on hand. Bigger is Always better. Back to the gas, there is still the old non ethenal type available if you hunt around. It's supposed to store better. We have a station near by and they sell it for classic cars and old farm tractors. Boat marinas also have it, BUT, you cannot order it in bulk, only gas cans and from a gas pump. Don't know why that's the only way to buy it. The bulk station guy told me to bring a large tank, fill it, then transfer it to your own storage. I've read up on fuel storage additives like stabil but there is supposed to be a better one out there. Don't remember the brand and haven't tried any. |
| Our ancestors left Europe to get away from this crap...as seen on a bumpersticker fns | |
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| Mommacat | Apr 9 2011, 08:16 AM Post #20 |
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I have read that as a regular part of "maintaining" your stores, you are supposed to add a fuel stabilizer to any gasoline you have stored. But, even in ideal conditions, you can only make it be useable for a pretty short time. A couple years is what I have read - and I am not sure if ethanol additives makes a difference in that or not. In a perfect plan, a person would have an EMP proof vehicle and have the parts to adapt it to a solar powered engine after the EMP blast. Then, you'd have all your bases covered!! The more I think about it, the more I believe a person would do well to start keeping items for horse-drawn travel and work. Don't laugh, if the option is walking the 8 miles to town or jumping on a horse, which would you choose!? I rememeber when I was about 6, my grandma and the neighbors put up hay with horses and we had wonderful, fun hay and sleigh rides in the winter. It isn't that far-fetched! |
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