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What does OPSEC mean...really
Topic Started: Apr 4 2011, 09:15 AM (2,224 Views)
Mommacat
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I agree that "the rules" need to be decided well in advance of them having to be implemented. They should be a group consensus, however, if the group will be together at a landowner's property, that landowner should have the final say in anything that alters their property significantly. Situations that cannot be foreseen that do arise where disagreement occurs should be voted on according to whatever guidelines the group has established for the ability of its members to vote. I believe, when people know and understand the rules and feel as if they had a voice in establishing the rules under which they live, conficts should be minimal. The rules could be carried forward to a time when things have stabilized to the point that members are able to have their own homes, they would still be part of the group in the form of a community and the "rules" could be expanded upon to begin the formation of a representative gov't. It almost has to be that way as, anyone who has ever studied a true democracy understands, it is a system that cannot survive. A republic is what serves its members fairly and equally. :)
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HandFarming
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Really interesting discussion going on. Each person has an idea of what is fair and how to implement the work load and problems as they arise. I totally agree that all processes of interactions need to be laid out in advance. I certainly would like to hear more about Raven's system as it sounds promising. Most in-coming persons wouldn't have a clue as to what to do or when it needs doing. This is my dilemma as people need to be trained quickly and once they know what is expected of them, you would "expect" things to go smoothly....but they never do. So I would expect a goal of 90% functioning to go on.

My main issues are that people show up with no food, seasonal clothing and assists like tools or work equipment. I for one can not be expected to feed people, cloth them or even house them for any length of time. Though I have preached for years, I know of no other family or friends who stock up, heat with wood or know how to grow food, chop wood or any of the other necessities. I think knowing more about Raven Rules would be a big asset.

Hoping to hear more!
You can lead an ass to knowledge, but you can not make it think.
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Raven
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When I get them fine tuned, I will put the rules that I came up with on here for all to comment. I would like the comments before I put it up for vote at any rate. One person can't think of everything!
The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand
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Mommacat
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I think Raven has come up with an excellent "working plan". While each group will be different, I think the basic group will normally consist of a couple families that have prepped together and share the same BOL. Over time, I envision that core group expanding to include newcomers and I believe each group has to come up with its own plan on how to assimilate them into the group. Equally important, I think each group needs to come up with a plan for managing departures as things stablize and people again want to have their own homes and live independently. It would be nice if we could all embrace the hippie commune ideal with no rules and no expectations, but if anyone remembers the 70's, they'll recall that wasn't such a happy situation as it was supposed to be. Too many grasshoppers and not enough ants! :) I agree with you, HF, that someone is going to have to be in charge of telling and showing newcomers what needs to be done and how to do it, but I think Raven addresses that nicely in her plan for "teams and team leaders" and different teams doing different tasks on a rotating basis. As for anyone that shows up without their own stores or equipment, etc.; its possible they got separated from theirs and so are not to blame for their situation. In any event, it should be a group vote to let anyone stay and there may be very good reasons for the group deciding to basically support someone in exchange for them staying. I am thinking of a doctor or an engineer, someone that could contribute intellectually to the group and is also willing to hoe weeds in the garden. I do think a group would need to be very selective and that whole process would go much smoother if there were already guidelines that all had previously agreed upon. I greatly admire Raven for tackling the huge task of coming up with a workable group "constitution" and I am impressed with her forethought in realizing how very necessary it is.
Edited by Mommacat, Sep 26 2011, 10:19 AM.
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Raven
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Don't admire me...I just hate change and suprises...I do my best to limit both and because of that I try to head problems off at the pass. If my "eccentricity" helps anyone else, all the better!
The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand
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Mommacat
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Is that what its called? Wow - that's a lot nicer than what I usually get called!! LOL But, whatever your motivation in doing it, it is a tough task and I think you've got a pretty good handle on it - so if being "eccentric" is what it takes -go for it! :)
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HandFarming
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My hubby and I have been prepping on our own for so long, thinking we were prepping for peak oil (and all that goes with it) that I have no idea how to take on the situation so I really admire (!!) those who have thought things out in advance. For whatever reason, it may be the most important prep since getting things off to a positive start is one of the most critical issues at hand. Yes Raven, you are admired for your forward thinking!
You can lead an ass to knowledge, but you can not make it think.
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Mommacat
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Its a sad commentary on the human condition that we simply cannot all be trusted to treat each other kindly and equitably. So, yeah, rules are a very necessary evil! :)
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Raven
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Sorry that I have been so silent as of late but I have been to tired, busy to make sense much less tell you anything other than the usual. I promised that I would put up a rough draft of our retreat rules (not yet voted on) for discussion and input. Several things have been left out for OPSEC reasons, such as an inventory list of "must have" and "nice to have" as well as several other sensitive things, but this is the jist of it. Let me know if you think that I have missed anything.



It is not our intent to have a lengthy set of rules and regulations, however, there must be some rules so as to keep everyone on the same page. These rules can be altered, changed or deleted as deemed fit my the majority of voting members of the group.

The purpose of this retreat is for our group to survive a disaster, war or breakdown in society as smoothly as circumstances allow. It is not a place to bring your family camping, a homeless shelter, interim housing...it is our home, and we are willing to open it up to group members in case of "activation" but we are not willing to open it up on the whim of members that need to "get away from it all" or if their wife kicks them out.
No illegal firearms will be used on this property. The risk of discovery is to high for this group to bear. This rule can be re-visited in the event of activation of the retreat.
No racist, skinhead, Nazi or religious zelots will be tolerated. Your God, your choice...choose well but allow others to do the same.

Active members: must be invited to join and voted in by the members. They must get a 90% majority vote. They must contribute time and/or money to retreat developement. If you cannot afford to both purchase necessary stores and contribute to the formation of a group retreat, labor can be negotiated in exchange for any monetary contribution at a rate decided upon by group members. You will still be obligated to purchase your own food and supplies to store. Active members must make 75% of the conference call meetings and at least 50% of the training/project meetings. If you cannot make one, you must inform your team leader. All project meetings missed must be made up at a later date. All projects are determined by group vote. Project meeting times are determined by majority vote of group members.

Auxillary Members: Family members of active members, brought to the retreat by prior arrangement of the voting members of the group.

Team Leaders: Active members given the duty of leadership over a group. Duties include work scheduals, information updates, over see work that needs to be done, manage team projects and training scheduals. Team leaders report directly to the committee of team leaders.

Everyone has the right to their viewpoint and may voice an opinion and these are to be respected and, if necessary, respectfully argued to the contrary. Majority voting prevails but respect for other opinions must be shown. Once the vote has taken place, all members are expected to conform to group mandates. In matters of long term land ownership, structure or consequence, Erwin and I will make the final decision although the matter will be debated by the group. We will base our decision on the best interest of the group but we bought this land and started to retrofit it into a retreat long before you got here and we will not be "out voted" to change the origional intent and/or layout of the property. In the end, we are responsible and answerable for what goes on here.

OPSEC is to be observed AT ALL TIMES. Discuss our preps with no one outside of our active membership. Our lives and livelyhood may someday be dependant on others not knowing about us. If our preps are compromised we have no choice but to stay here and take the heat. You may never have to.
In the event of retreat activation, your immediate family members will be welcomed as pre-arranged, but they are not active members and they must not be allowed to know what our group entails, nor the names of other members of the group. Your brother in law that is a "really cool guy" and is semi-interested may not be as inclined to keep a secret as you think that he is and your wife/husband (who isn't fully on board) may not be fully aware of the need to stay silent. We are not willing to take that chance and anyone that violates this rule will be asked to leave the group.
Once the retreat is activated, each auxillary member will be informed of the specifics on a need to know basis. Each auxillary member will be required to work alongside the active member that brought them, under the supervision of their team leader. There is a strict "no free rides" policy. We cannot afford slackers or whiners and you, as the active member that brought them will be held accountable for their introduction to rules and regulations and their conduct until they are full active members.

Retreat Activation: Once the retreat is activated, conservation of resources will be mandated. Water and toilet paper are to be used sparingly. The outhouse will be put into use. Feminine products and toilet paper are to be placed in a container provided to be burned at a later time. Unless you are willing to dig a new hole and move the outhouse yourself, we need to make this last as long as possible.
Food will be prepared in a communal kitchen by the group assigned to this duty at the time. At activation, all stores will be available to the group for group use.
LPOP duty: Everyone will be prepared to stand at look out. The number of look outs and the scheduals will change with the circumstances of the moment. There will be some members that will be excused due to physical limitations, trust issues and other duties at the time. Team leaders are in charge of posting duties and excusing members from duty. Look outs are expected to be alert at all times. Anyone found inattentive, asleep or otherwise occupied will be given the nastiest jobs at the retreat for one week in addition to their regular duties, second infraction will be given two nasty jobs for a period of one month.

Anyone that leaves the group, either by choice or because of majority vote, will be allowed to take their individually purchased items such as food and supplies, BUT anything that was a group purchase, or was built or manufactured for the group, or a group project will remain with the group...this includes plants, livestock or other animals, building materials or anything else of that nature. You will not be reimbursed for these items or materials either with money or property.

All members are required to have a purchasing plan to gather all of the items that the Team Leader Committee designate as appropriate for our group. You will be required to obtain all of the items within 2 years. Any deviations to this time limit will be given on a case by case basis by the Team Leader Committee based on a 2/3 (two thirds) vote.



The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand
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Mommacat
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Great Charter, Raven! I think you hit all the salient points and it leaves no questions or "what ifs" unaccounted for. Some things that you did not include, such as provision lists, probably should not be included here anyway as they should be a "fluid document" - meaning subject to change as necessary. I would vote to accept this as a founding document of a group, I cannot think of anything that should be added or taken out. Some amendments to it may become necessary later on, but they could be handled much the same way Amendments to the Constitution are. Well done!
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