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| What does OPSEC mean...really | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 4 2011, 09:15 AM (2,221 Views) | |
| HandFarming | Oct 16 2011, 05:11 AM Post #71 |
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Interesting discussion, but some wires are crossed. The March timeline is because by that time next year (opinion coming), the numbers of people seeking the same goods to ensure survival will have skyrocketed in price. As for them paying anything to cover my expenses, $500 for 10 people barely covers the price. The goal is for the funds for winter military tents outfitted with heat, cots and bathroom facilities like composting toilets, unless they want to build an outhouse. At least 3 groups are needed to manage that single obstacle and why should I provide these? What WE provide should not be a burden on myself and husband. I had someone tell us they can help with our gardening one year by bringing over their tractor and plowing down an area so they could have half the produce. That doesn't cover a fraction of the work of buying seeds, planting, fertilizing, and weeding, but they would have been more than happy to come help harvest. People have a distorted sense of what it takes for something simple like grow food. I just told them I can manage a garden the size for me and mine but not much more since we do everything by hand. Water system? I have 2 for the house n barn. Well water was dug in by dearie and rainwater as outdoor use for watering animals and gardens. Now, If someone wanted water to a camper, that's not my expense. Neither is a heat system or sewage, since the house has it's own. Just saying, I'm not adding 1,000 ft of plumbing just because we have already done it. They can make their own arrangements as needed and I'm not charging for the camper sitting on my property, the way a camp ground would, so I don't see the issue. Everyone who gets an invitation has already been accepted by me so the 90% doesn't apply until they get their say. As for people who have nothing, they have physical bodies and can work helping get things set in exchange. Because I see a different set of social threats than most of the poeple I talk to, I set the schedule accordingly. So because I see the thing in Leo and not hearing valid explanations of what it is, I made a schedule according to that. As for it "not ever happening or not ever getting used", ask the people who survived Fuchashima if they would have liked to know to be prepared. Governments, economy and jobs are all manifestations of society-BUT what happens in the heavens is not something anyone of us can negotiate. Historically, every year the quakes get stronger, longer and do more damage each late winter to early spring. How long before it gets talked about in mainstream and sends people into panic mode? How many will need safe shelter? I expect 100s, which is where we differ. I have saved the things needed to expand to acres of fertilizers, seeds and more for basic food production. But it will take people having the tools to be able to do that as I can only do so much....but, unlike others, excluding people in this group, I have had years to think about what is needed to be done. Not to say I have the answers on any level, but having thought some of the things out is this groups biggest advantage. As for the heaven/hell story, the point is-we are all in this together, no religous judgements intended. We can only get to a better place -if we all work to get there. |
| You can lead an ass to knowledge, but you can not make it think. | |
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| HandFarming | Oct 16 2011, 05:19 AM Post #72 |
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Oh, oh, oh....I think I came up with a new prediction. Here it is...and my hubby thought it interesting: A few years ago an "electric comet" like elenin passed by the sun and was blown apart by a small solar flare. Like Elenin, it was made of hydrogen cyanide. When the planet went through where it went by our orbit, about that time was when mass animal, bird and fish deaths happened. What are the odds that small animals, fish and birds are more effected by hydrogen cyanide than larger? We'll know as we go through end of October -beginning of November if more mass deaths of animals occur. If they don't occur, that means something else was causing it and we need to keep looking. |
| You can lead an ass to knowledge, but you can not make it think. | |
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| Raven | Nov 26 2011, 12:41 AM Post #73 |
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Has anyone out there finalized their plans for beggars, both family and strangers? We have talked about this before but there were no clear cut plans in place. I got a very sad depressing email from another prepper about his family. He is desperately busting his hump trying to get enough together at this late stage of the game, and doing a very VERY impressive job doing so. The problem is that he has family that he is trying to save that are most uncooperative. They won't even pick up things that the prepper is willng to pay for. Frustrating as he is willing to pay the complete cost of the things that are needed. I understand that he wants to save his family but I believe that we have all gone through this and I want to know #1, what you decided, #2 how you came to your decision, and #3 how you plan to impliment your decision. I am hoping that I can point him back to this site and he might find some answers. Thanks guys |
| The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand | |
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| HandFarming | Nov 26 2011, 01:17 AM Post #74 |
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We've warned people and asked them to buy things or pay for those things to be stored. Not even one would pitch in. So, new rules: I collect seeds so that any who show up here will plant their own food and that's all they get as we can only get so much done. If space allows, they can stay in the barn with the animals as there is no place in the house for beggars. With any thinking, they will have blankets and warm clothing but none would be provided. They must put in 4 hours of work a day besides the gardens they grow for themselves. If it is winter and gardens are not an option, no one comes here without at least 6 months food. The hours do not include lookout time or anything other than what work is dictated to be done. Without them bringing food, they may be limited to eating hay soup. Any offense of the rules means they will be banished to a labor camp where food can be provided and so is the work. Cutting with buck saws, splitting by axe and hauling by hand. Rocks need to be moved and stacked, fields need to be worked by hand and...you get the picture... So, my advice, get minimal and things that have the biggest impact for the money. Tarps, seeds, hand tools. Put enough away for what he needs for himself and family but have resources to expand food, shelter and water filtration. His stock of ammo is not to be shared and anyone who comes in does so for the benefit of the whole group and requires someone vouching for them. Edited by HandFarming, Nov 26 2011, 01:22 AM.
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| You can lead an ass to knowledge, but you can not make it think. | |
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| Mommacat | Nov 26 2011, 09:16 AM Post #75 |
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Tough question that requires an equally tough mind to reach a common-sense, workable solution. My advice to your friend would be, first, he MUST decide exactly who and how many he is willing and able to "help". If its his kids and their immediate families, then that's how many he should plan for. I think in a situation such as his, friends, acquaintances, etc. are definitely NOT on the short list. Once he decides who it is that he will be responsible for "saving", then he at least has some numbers to work with. As for life once everybody shows up, I think "rules" would be very hard to enforce - example: if your daughter's husband and father of her 5 kids does not like to work, I don't think you could successfully banish him. You might hope for an "accident" in the woods, but that's pretty maccabre! I have much the same situ with my daughters. One gets it, the other thinks I am insane and her democratic left-wingers will keep the Country on an even keel, and the third just refuses to think anything but happy thoughts and won't even get a job if times are good. However, they have kids and I simply could not eat and be warm if my grandchildren were not taken care of. In a nutshell, I am planning for at least 12-14 people. I still don't know how I am going to manage that and I am scared silly about the prospect. So, I am very sorry, but I don't have an easy answer, not for him and not for myself! In any case, about all you can do is keep working at it and pray that its enough. |
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| Raven | Nov 26 2011, 03:11 PM Post #76 |
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There are aspects of both of your answers that I have him so I can't be far off...thanks for helping. |
| The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand | |
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| Mommacat | Nov 27 2011, 10:11 AM Post #77 |
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Raven, your question seems to have hit some nerve in my psyche - last night I couldn't sleep and it kept running around in my head. It seems to me that there are so many unpredictable variables that its nearly impossible to formulate any sort of plan or strategy to deal with non-prepping "refugees". For example, it would make a huge difference if a long-lost cousin showed up with his child in mid-summer. Of course, you could offer to let them stay and they could help with gardening, farming, etc., they could sleep in a hayshed, and all would be well. However, if they showed up in the middle of winter and stores were running a bit low and sleeping spaces were already cramped, then its a whole different scenario. It would be easy to let them stay in the summer, but that is when it would be easiest for them to survive elsewhere - know what I mean? I like HF's idea of care packages of seeds and some handtools to get them started. And, I also like the idea of a care package of food and other necessities and then sending them on their way, but the practicality of that is almost nonexistent. I don't think I'd want to part with groceries when I wasn't sure what the future held for me and my group. So, I had a fitful night and still have no concrete answers. |
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| Raven | Nov 27 2011, 06:42 PM Post #78 |
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That is pretty much where I am at this point. My head tells me that if there is no room, and vittles then they would have to go...never make it past the perimeter. My heart tells me that if it is a kid, I will have a much harder time to do that. The problem is that I will not have enough hand tools, seeds, food, clothing etc to part with as I don't know the numbers that our group would swell to. You can hardly let the kid stay because you feel bad, and have the parent run off. You would be stuck with a kid that would need supervision and no skills. You can hardly let everyone that crosses your path stay even if they were willing to work in the fields because eventually human nature would kick in and that ugly green eyed monster would show up and convince the new comer that they are more capable of running the show than the people that did all of the ground work. Once that mentality kicks in, it will snowball into mob rule. I think that the first thing that might have to happen is that you would go through their stuff to find out what kind of person that they are. If they carry a bunch of stuff that runs on electricity or other useless stuff, that would be a black mark for common sense. I was wondering about a personality test? Would that be enough to sort out who would get along with your group and who would not? |
| The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand | |
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| Raven | Nov 27 2011, 07:31 PM Post #79 |
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I just got done reading a post in the Rawles site that touches on this very topic...worth reading. |
| The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand | |
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| Grizzly | Nov 27 2011, 10:39 PM Post #80 |
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Just read the Rawles site, Not looking forward to that situation at all! Alot of little things I never considered and don't have any answers for either. Don't know how in the world one would or could plan for an answer to all those details other than make a set of rules and totaly stick to them no matter what. Easier said than done. |
| Our ancestors left Europe to get away from this crap...as seen on a bumpersticker fns | |
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