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| What does OPSEC mean...really | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 4 2011, 09:15 AM (2,220 Views) | |
| Mommacat | Nov 28 2011, 02:06 AM Post #81 |
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Ultimately, I think Grizzly has the answer; make and then stick to the rules. He also nailed it with "easier said than done". But, if you start making exceptions, then you have to agonize over it again and again. Everyone has a sob story and they would all be heartbreaking, but it would be important to keep first and foremost in your mind that you can't allow the group to die because you couldn't say "no" to the "grasshoppers" that would show up. So, I guess the very short answer would be, only those that prepped and either have pre-positioned stores at the BOL or bring their stuff with them can stay. You would put your group in danger if you even offered a hot meal to see them on their way because getting past the perimeter would mean they would see all they need to come back and try to just take it. Raven, I think your friend needs to try to understand something very fundamental; those that refuse to prep are not very interested in staying alive - he cannot take responsibility for keeping alive those that don't wish to be. Put a different way - if they won't help with anything so easy and simple as picking up supplies now, what does he think will happen when there are gardens to take care of, animals to tend, no electricity and no "fun" stuff? It is physically impossible for him to take care of all of them by himself. |
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| Grizzly | Mar 8 2012, 09:14 AM Post #82 |
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Finally back to work again. Today at lunch break the topic of conversation, started by some guy I didn't know, told of a fishing buddy he met in Colorado. This buddy owns a very secluded cabin in the wilderness and the miles of property surrounding it was also owned by this very wealthy guy. We were told that he is a great guy, but, one of those "y2k nuts". He supposedly has 2-1,000 gal LP tanks, 5,000 gal of under ground fuel, diesel generator, an under ground room full of weapons and 20 years worth of ammo, buried gold and silver coins all over the property, etc, etc, etc. Get my drift yet? We were just a small group but how many times has this story been told? As it was an interesting story, you never know how far your secrets will go and who will be over hearing them. |
| Our ancestors left Europe to get away from this crap...as seen on a bumpersticker fns | |
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| HandFarming | Mar 8 2012, 09:54 AM Post #83 |
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Rumor mill is saying am mo is not being stocked in stores. Anyone else hear that or try to buy any? |
| You can lead an ass to knowledge, but you can not make it think. | |
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| Raven | Mar 8 2012, 10:04 AM Post #84 |
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Where are you hearing that? We have not heard anything along that line. Next time I go to the city, I will check at Fleet Farm to see what they have. Interesting |
| The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand | |
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| Mommacat | Mar 8 2012, 11:21 AM Post #85 |
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I think that is partly true about the ammo, some types are getting pretty scarce - our Fleet Farm up here is evidence of that. But, the guy behind the counter tells me that its just a sort of seasonal shortage - this time of year is not a big ammo sales time (think hunting) and so stores put less of their inventory dollars into carrying a lot of stuff that will take a backseat to the summer fishing season. He said a person always can order it or make it known they want it and they'll get it in, if they can get their "price" on it. Don't know f'sure what that meant. Anyway, in the fall they will be back up to 100 inventory of all kinds, so I am not panicked, just yet! As for the op-sec thing. Yeah, we all hear stuff like that and I always wonder if its someone I actually know - nobody ever seems to have a name they can attach to the story - which is good for the prepper that's being "outed". I am practically phobic about keeping my prepping private. My daughter once asked me if I was embarrased by it and that was how come I never talk about it - talk about missing the boat - hell, she wasn't even on the seaside with that one!! LOL But, in all seriousness, I can count on one hand the people that know for sure I am a prepper and I can count on the other the number that suspect I might be. Nothing makes me madder than to have someone else make a comment about my activities to a person that I have NOT offered the information to. I am rather limited to what I can store, but if the SHTF, I could stay in my townhouse and ride it out for quite a while and I suspect that my quiet little cul de sc would empty out and I'd be one of the few left - everyone else would be out looking and that would not be a necessary risk for me. Later on I might have the luxury of going someplace for the long-term, but in the beginning, I won't have to and that's kind of what I'm all about. The key though to my plan is absolute denial that I have anything more than an average household's 3 days worth of supplies - and I go to great lengths to keep it that way. I refuse to ask direct questions from people I don't know - I just joke about it and make some comment about Barry will be there to "help" if it ever came down to it. I also don't shop for things in the same places all the time. Raven has another great idea that a person should only pay cash and I've been trying to keep that in mind. Sometimes, its necessary, but as its usually food or food storage things like canning jars, etc. I have no credit cards and that makes me even less "trackable". I have a local bank debit card and won't do business at a nationwide banking system. I like to think a local bank is less likely to keep track of stuff like that. Could be wrong, but that's my feeling. I think being secure is possibly even more important than being prepared and that's saying a whole lot. It won't matter if you have 10 years worth of food, seeds, supplies and farm animals all set up if somebody comes out and takes it away from you! I know in the minds of many, they envision this Rambo-like scenario where they fight to the death to protect their properties, but the reality is that all its gonna take is for somebody to put a gun to your kid's head and you'll tell 'em where the extra gas and food is hidden and maybe even offer to help 'em load it up! Reality, folks!! Well, sorry for the rant and I'll climb down off my soap box, now. However, I am committed to the approach of security and quietly going about my business. |
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| Grizzly | Mar 8 2012, 08:46 PM Post #86 |
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On the ammo, I've seen the same thing that MC said about the seasonal inventory. It seems to really thin out over the summer and really stocked again in the fall. There is a good realistic article on the Rawles site about all around prepping. Way different than the usual. The title is... Out of the Neighborhood and Into a Community, by J.N. |
| Our ancestors left Europe to get away from this crap...as seen on a bumpersticker fns | |
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| Raven | Mar 8 2012, 09:00 PM Post #87 |
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It irritates the hell out of me when people just assume that they can share other people's plans with someone else...I don't care if I have never met the person that they tell, if I will never meet the person that they tell or if no names are used. I tend to trust that person with much less than I would have thought I could. Trust is earned and if you blow it once, I will probably never trust them that way again. OPSEC means that you are careful who you let into your group. Being a member of a group means that you SHUT THE HELL UP. I am pretty sure that if the "friend" ever finds out, the blabber mouth will not be so welcome at the fire again. I am not sure what it is, maybe deep down these people aren't taking the serious consequences to heart, maybe they don't believe that anything will ever come to a SHTF situ, maybe they honestly believe that all of the OPSEC protocols that are in place are overkill...but that call only belongs to them if it is only them and their families that are involved. They have NO business taking those chances for others. If you are truly preparing for a total collapse, you had better take it seriously lives and people's security depends on it. If I was that guy, and found out that a bunch of people think that I am rich and well prepared, and then something happened to set off alarms, and they show up at my house en mass trying to take advantage of my foresight all because of one person's big mouth...guess who gets the first bullet? I dunno, OPSEC is paramount for me. Edited by Raven, Mar 9 2012, 03:27 PM.
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| The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand | |
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| Raven | Mar 9 2012, 02:01 AM Post #88 |
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http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/07/10602763-election-economy-spark-explosive-growth-of-militias THIS is why you keep your mouth shut... |
| The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand | |
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| HandFarming | Mar 10 2012, 10:39 PM Post #89 |
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I understand all those concerns. And we have discussed several sides of the issue. Our whole point in prepping is not just for ourselves, but for our small community, many of which are still not serious about the issues. I collect seeds for the purpose of people showing up, they can learn to grow food. And I can multiply those stores within a reasonable amount of time. It's not a free ride for anyone who didn't get ready, but I'm not holding it against them,particularly family and close friends. We have decided most all are welcome if they work and follow the rules. . .big emphasis on following rules. I also share the intent on our prpng to be defendable and organized and have been learning about the French revolution where people only know several other groups and information is shared in "packets". That said, because I have a sense of things, one of my main goals has been to help others survive and I look for those items to stock, though no idea of what or how much is needed. People who are hunkering down by themselves, with no plans to assist others are setting themselves up to be forced to defend a place. Humans, or any species did not evolve because they are stand alone self sufficient. All life survives because it cooperats on its survival. |
| You can lead an ass to knowledge, but you can not make it think. | |
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| Raven | Mar 11 2012, 12:12 AM Post #90 |
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I understand where you are coming from and we have several other small groups that we are aware of that, if need be, would be dependable and we trust them to keep their mouths shut and they trust us. You have a good idea to save stuff for others, we do the same but it is for the purpose of barter, your plants won't grow into food overnight, if you have a crop failure they won't grow at all. You might plant a garden in preparation for 100 and if 1000 show up you are going to have 1000 people that are half starving and desperate. I prefer to barter things that people need if I have any...no free rides and no secrets told. My whole point of the post was that you make the choice for your retreat and we do the same for ours. It is not someone elses choice to blab what they have seen or heard about someone else. The second that you let that out of your mouth you have made that choice for someone else. I think that you have every right to do your own things with your stuff and your ideas, I just don't think that it will work, in all of world history it has never worked and I don't see that it would now but that is YOUR choice, I just don't want people thinking that they have a right to make that choice for me. I too have a sense of things. |
| The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand | |
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