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Fake Preppers
Topic Started: Jul 21 2011, 12:24 AM (793 Views)
Raven
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I read a very good article with much food for thought on Creekmores survivalistblog today about the fake preppers who will use info that they get by pretending to be preppers and by gaining info that you share with them, they also gain information of who has what and where they have it as well as defensive skills. This article got me to thinking that of all of the people that I have known throughout the years, most of them, thank God have been through emails and fake names and locations and very few of them in person at our location. I understand that not everyones take on prepping is the same and I have no problem with that although I try to align myself only with those who think in generally the same terms that I do. My uneasy feelings come from those that talk good but do so little. There are some that I have known that buy guns/ammo but no food to store or the skills that will be needed and they also haven't quite gotten around to the gun safety classes (an absolute MUST in my opinion as getting shot by a friend is much worse and a bigger threat than getting shot by an enemy). They will not share their bug out route so that intervention by allies if needed can be worked out...In general they know everything, share usless or false information all the while keeping track of you. These types of people will sell you out to anyone willing to make it worth their while. You will have given them the ammo needed to subvert your efforts at survival or worse than that, sell you out.
There are those of us who believe that it is getting to the point that our very "protectors" ie government entities (think BHO's citizen army) will be coming to pay us a call and with a little "help" from these people they will know where to look and what to lookout for.
I am not sure what the answer is but make sure when you meet someone who you think will be a good candidate for your group

1. Meet in a neutral place, not in your town, not in a place that you usually frequent, wear no indentifying clothing, jewlery etc

2. Meet several times to see how they are with keeping appointments, being on time, able to share with reasonable consistancy. All of this is telling of the persons reliable charactor, ability to maintain OPSEC etc. If they don't give you details right away that is a good thing IMO, it proves that they are checking you out as well. If they keep missing appointments, re-schedual appointments they are not going to be a reliable person to join with...I don't care what the excuses are, if they continue to cancel or reschedual they are not considering prepping a high enough priority.

3. Beware of those whose families are not at least partially on board. You will probably meet several people that both spouses are not at the same level as each other but if one says that they are not on board but "don't worry, when TSHTF they will step up" run...they may come to the retreat but will have no idea of how things work, chain of command, work rules etc. It is bad enough to have to train them while under the gun but to do it when they are resisting you is a whole nuther matter. Families come as a whole entity. If one person is the ultimate prepper but the majority of his family are happy to keep their heads in the sand and are resistant at every step the one ultimate prepper will probably not be worth the trade off.

4. Have a set of written rules in place...retreat rules, chain of command, a list of clearly defined expectations and consequences.

Remember, no two people have the exact same ideas and you will not find a ideological twin (beware of wolves in sheeps clothing if you seem to find one) BUT...if you find somethings that you find hard to swallow or grating...expect this feeling to intensify multi-fold if you are stuck in close quarters with this person.

These are some of the things that I have thought about and am trying to remedy...any thoughts out there as to what you consider? How about sharing some of your rules or things that you look for???
Edited by Raven, Jul 21 2011, 12:29 AM.
The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand
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Mommacat
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"Food for thought", indeed, Raven. Trust is a tricky thing and I sometimes think our level of trust for someone depends on how well we like them - which is NOT a good indicator of how trustyworthy they really are.

I think your suggestions are good and comments are on the mark. I guess I would add that if a person's homestead is to be used as a "group BOL", as the owner of the property and presumably the founder of the group, I would suggest that a cache spot, away from the rest of your stores, be set up and not divulged to anyone but a spouse. I say that because if there are fundamental differences and an "uprising" within the group, you'd still be able to stay alive to figure out how to resolve the problem. I know that is horribly pessimistic and firmly lands in the "does not play well with others" category, but in a SHTF situ and it's aftermath, I firmly believe that people you trusted may turn on you. If its a survival situation, people can and will justify all sorts of dastardly behavior. Even if the group splinters and people go their own seperate ways in a friendly manner, the fair and reasonable thing would be to divide up the stores - if you have a secret stash, then you can be assured that you'll survive, no matter how the "group" stores are divided up. If, after a couple years, the group is functioning well, but things are still dicey with the rest of the world, then you could choose to share your secret stash if the need arose. People will probably be upset that you hid it from them, but having food to stay alive would problably soothe their hurt feelings.

One other thing that comes to my mind is post-SHTF invitees. The book, "The Patriot" (think it was that one) starts with a rather small group, but as the book progresses, others are allowed into the group. That is something to keep in mind - there may be people that would be very good to have in the group (a doctor, a horse trainer, an engineer, etc.) that are on the move and don't have their own stores. A group should discuss how that would be handled and provisions set aside for "sharing". Just some random thoughts - I may add more as I think of them. Very, very good post - thanks!
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Raven
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The idea of a separate cache is a good one...I'd even go so far as to say that several of them would be a good thing but then my boss tells me that I have trust issues :ermm:
The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand
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Mommacat
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LOL Well, having trust issues or a just cautious nature is all in the way you look it, IMO! I can only think of about 7 people that I trust implicitly, so I guess I must be of the "cautious nature" category! :)
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Raven
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also on the paranoid side...never go to your car when they are looking...ALWAYS leave last. If they have your license plate they can get your id... B-)
The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand
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Mommacat
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There certainly are things that a new member of a group should keep in mind and be prepared for. First off, don't expect immediate full trust from the other members. Don't get all bent out of shape if some of the senior members wish to have a discussion that does not include you. Second, don't ever lie - about anything - ever! If you get caught in even one tiny little white lie, the group's ability to trust you will be shot and very hard to rebuild, if at all. Third, be upfront about what you've done on your own toward prepping and don't exaggerate. If you're new to prepping, nobody expects that you'll have stockpiled 5 years worth of food and supplies. Besides, your contribution of material things may not be what the group is looking for from you anyway; they may be interested in you because of some special skill or knowledge you possess. Fourth, be prepared to share whatever you do have. I think that some items should be held as strictly personal - things like some tools, firearms, specialized equipment, etc. (these things should actually be discussed and decided by the group in the beginning stages of forming the group) But, regular prep items like food and supplies should become group assets and shared equally, regardless of who brought what to the party. While it seems as if you'd be giving up your autonomy, it isn't without an exchange - that being safety, a larger pool of labor sharing and combined knowledge that would greatly increase odds on your own survival. Finally, Raven brought up an excellent point and, unfortunately a fairly common occurrence, when she mentioned preppers whose spouses/family just aren't all that into it. Before you think about joining any group, you need to take a hard and honest look at what you'd be asking the group to accept from you. You may be a hard working, honest, well provided for prepper, but if you have a soccer-mom wife, or couch potato spouse, and 4 overly indulged kids that come with you, that will not make you a good candidate for a survival group. If that is your situation and you can't do anything to interest your family in getting involved, you might be better off planning your own group, or going it alone. That seems horribly harsh, but I know that if I'm working my butt off harvesting grain on a hot summer day, I will be less than understanding and totally unsympathetic about someone else's family that whines, hides in the shade, refuses to work, yet shows up for meals and expects the group to provide protection and assistance. It seems pretty basic, but the Golden Rule should dictate your behavior.
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Raven
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I couldn't have said it better Mommacat. I am thinking that the best way to go is to have a manual that spells out rules and responsibilities of a group member. Not sure how to go about that other than start with a base outline and work your way from there. I think that it would take all group members to start it out and as other members join, have a way to amend the agreement. Like a group Constitution or something. Just a thought.
The truth is not for all men, but only for those that seek it. Ayn Rand
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Mommacat
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I agree with the idea of a group charter of some sort that spells out the rules and expectations, it should also contain clearly defined consequences for non-compliance with the group's rules. I think our forefathers had it right when they drafted our Constitution - its straightforward and simply worded - even with its old-time language, its easily understood by most everyone. Most people intensely dislike the idea of written-down rules, but I can't see any other way to ensure group harmony. I would hope that post-SHTF we'd still be a republic type of society - meaning that everyone has a voice, but there still must be structure to the decision making process. It might seem like an insurmountable chore to write a "manual", but you might be over-thinking the whole thing. I think the main issues should be addressed, but some of the other stuff should be handled as a need arises to solve a problem. It would be wise to remember that the solution that fits one situation may not always be appropriate and fair and so there has to be a way to decide things on a case-by-case basis - and that's where a "rule book" to explain the process to use to come up with a resolution or make group decisions would be a good idea. A few things that I believe should be in the "Constitution" should be how a person is accepted into the group (flip side- how can they be expelled); what become group assets and how are they divided/shared; what expectations there are for contibutions of labor/stores/secuity from members; how are group situations handled that require a "vote" (decide who gets to vote and how do they get that privilege) and what majority is necessary to constitute "group consensus. Some things, such as a duty roster, have to pretty flexible, so it doesn't make sense to me to put that into the group constitution - you could maybe reference that there will be a "chore list", but try hard to make the group constitution something that is practically etched in stone -otherwise it becomes sort of pointless to have it. One other thing that should perhaps be included in the group constitution would be the way families of members are treated/managed, by that I mean, does only the defacto head of household get a vote, do all adults get a vote, etc.? I like the idea of anyone over 21 gets to vote, regardless of whether they were born and raised in the group or invited in later. However, some sort of probationary period might be wise for new members. LOL I could go on for hours, but these are just some of my ideas - I'm not claiming they are the best ideas, or even workable, but I think anything that gets the wheels turning is a good thing! :)
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Grizzly
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I think you are very good at getting "wheels turning". I can't think of anything to add at the moment. On the part of which members vote would definatly be for adults only but if a members spouse or adult family that isn't on board any way, would you want to have them vote??? I really don't know.
Our ancestors left Europe to get away from this crap...as seen on a bumpersticker fns
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Mommacat
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I agree, I absolutely would NOT want the couch-potato husband or soccer-mom wife deciding how MY life will run. But, that's in the very beginning. I suspect that after a time of communal life and accepting that life as they know it no longer exists, most people get real practical, real fast. But, maybe that's where the probationary period would make sense?
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