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| Hydro-electric; Alt energy | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 12 2011, 08:49 AM (431 Views) | |
| Mommacat | Aug 13 2011, 10:18 PM Post #11 |
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About how much does a basic set up like that cost? I've been very interested in wind power and hadn't really considered water power. Where I live there are a lot of small rivers and streams, so this idea may have much to recommend it. I do know that start up for wind power is horrendously expensive and if this is more affordable, it might make more sense. |
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| Grizzly | Aug 14 2011, 12:00 AM Post #12 |
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You have my interest now. I was also considering wind power because earlier this year we had just crazy amount of wind but now later in the summer it's almost dead calm so any wind power wouldn't do much good. Our creek is a spring fed starting from our property and runs year round but it's also pretty low right now. I guess my main interest would be to run our water pump but we have 200 ft. uphill to our cistern in the back yard so that has been a draw back on every idea we've checked out. We have a 220 volt jet pump on a timer for a couple hours a day and about a weeks worth of water if it goes out, maybe less time with watering animals daily. I'm open to any ideas that you may have to finally eliminate the electric pump. I do still have the old ram pump they had here many years ago but have heard from the neighborhood that they had nothing but trouble with it but this house dates back to 1860's so I can't believe it was that bad. |
| Our ancestors left Europe to get away from this crap...as seen on a bumpersticker fns | |
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| Mommacat | Aug 14 2011, 04:04 AM Post #13 |
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I think having the creek powering its own water pump would be win/win situation, whether that's with this hydro-electic gizmo, or something else. I guess I don't know what a ram pump is, though. I do think that there must have been something in place that worked long before electricity was used, otherwise they would have built a different water system. |
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| HandFarming | Aug 14 2011, 08:46 AM Post #14 |
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So many questions - Hubby is busy answering them on his facebook page too. The video is up to 2,000 hit on youtube =)) IF you wanted to DIY, the cost of motors (new) would be between $525 (2 - 400 watts) to $875 (2- 800 watt motors). Old Electrical motors are easy to find and can be outfitted too. I saw a problem in getting the bearing wet but that can be fixed if shielded. The barrel (a new one) is about $65+s/h but finding used ones works too. A few old parts around were added. Fins are bent sheet metal and hubby did a triple fold for less drip over the ends. Hubby got one done in a day or 2. Most of that was the fins. Griz- I'll bet since your spring starts on your property - you could dam it up or channel it to make it do some work. Our creek is as low as we have ever seen it and yet it rolls on. IF you have concerns about the pumping up hill - use the water bugs to charge a battery bank big enough to power it on a timer if you can't put enough small water bugs in the creek to do it on demand. Preferably, I'd avoid batteries since after our testing a wind generator, which ran for 10 years after a tornado, the batteries are a hassle. As for the uses of a water bug, I think water might be collected on buildings better and be more efficient with rain barrel collection but if you have asphalt roofing, then that's out. We plan on using the small power for constant uses- chicken lights, charge a battery bank for bike power (we are presently using our bikes...another story another time), charge laptops, phones and basic communications - more small constant type uses. I talked about it on the MyBackAchers website under Smart electrical for electric usage when making your own power. In a nutshell - I prefer dedicated electrical uses- examples: -solar attic fans for cooling the house - which only runs when it gets hot. Ditto with solar fans for greenhouses (if I had one). -one electrical line to the kitchen to run either the washer, dishwasher, bread maker, food dryer, microwave or small refrigerator - but it would only run one thing at a time. -hubby wants to make a few water bugs to pump water on days through a cooling system and out to the garden or animals after (he does plumping/heating/cooling and wants to get away from freon). -ultimately, I want a smart electrical hot tub - I get in and it turns on! . . .the hubby calls that the Creek! We still have to conserve power I have plans to power most everything down to bare minimum (ice house instead of refrig/freezer, solar lights) and dearest is handy so he picked up a exercise bike (roadside) and it will make a nice peddle power unit for little things - like power up a tv? which only gets turned on now for Hell's Kitchen (we could use more Gordon Ramseys running our country)...rambling so I better cut and run... |
| You can lead an ass to knowledge, but you can not make it think. | |
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| Mommacat | Aug 14 2011, 10:17 PM Post #15 |
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Thanks for the info, HandFarming. Lots to think about. My main concern is having water available that I wouldn't have to haul in buckets. Having a source of electricity would be secondary, but good to have if a person could do it, particularly since electricity is required to operate most water delivery systems. In this area, most people that live outside of towns have wells and many preppers have an old fashioned hand pump in place as an alternate. |
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| Grizzly | Aug 14 2011, 11:16 PM Post #16 |
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Thanks for the ideas HF. If at all possible I would like to stay away from battery banks. I know that in some cases it can't be avoided or is just easier but in a long term shtf life style, where does one find replacements? They're going to become a rare and high demand item. There are many different ideas and may be a trial and error proccess for any project but now is the time to experiment. As for your motors, have you concidered permenant magnet type? Nothing to wear out and have more output depending on the size of magnets and windings. I looked at these for wind power and there are many videos on youtube for building your own. I'm thinking we need to get together some time and swap ideas cause I have many more but only a few would work for our setup so maybe they would be of use to others. |
| Our ancestors left Europe to get away from this crap...as seen on a bumpersticker fns | |
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| Grizzly | Aug 14 2011, 11:38 PM Post #17 |
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A ram pump. I'll try to descibe it. A short verticle pipe with a tee at the bottom. A check valve on the inlet side so the water can come in but not back out. It fills with water and the weight of the water and gravity pushes down and out the outlet side. As soon as the water pressure is down, the check valve opens and lets water back in and it starts all over again. No moving parts and I've heard they work great on more even ground but when you have a big hill to come up it doesn't have enough power. I have been thinking on how to modify this idea for more power but.. it to is a trial and error thing. I found the last one they used here in a shed along with the original book and can't believe what they paid for that thing. Hundreds of dollars and it's made out of pvc pipe and a brass check valve. My idea was to add a modern pressure tank to help with more power up the hill but I ran this idea by my plumer buddy and he had no knowlede of how they even worked ( before his time ). Maybe we should just forget the whole thing and move to a mountain cabin with a stream running by and sit on the porch and whittle. OK, I'm dreaming again. |
| Our ancestors left Europe to get away from this crap...as seen on a bumpersticker fns | |
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| Mommacat | Aug 15 2011, 04:42 AM Post #18 |
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LOL - well, dream big, I always say! As for the ram, I think I get it sort of. I also think you might be on to something with adding a pressure tank. |
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| HandFarming | Aug 15 2011, 11:22 AM Post #19 |
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Hi Griz, yes to permanent magnets and hubby found them in 3 phase furnace motors. Most tool shops look for them in the lathes and mills they use because they are more efficient and run on less power. They are also primo for making power as you can hook them up as dc power or ac. They are one of Tesla designs. At our former residence, the neighbors worked at what used to be Winco wind generator manufacturing in Le Center. They met the demand for wind generators world wide because they were only 1 of a handful of companies that did that. They changed to gas powered generators in the late 80'ish. Too bad. But if you can find an old one, that's the wind power you want. The problem with pumping water uphill, should be about the same as pumping water from a 500 ft deep well. Right now, that power use is second to the refrig. I had hope to solve it by rain water collection. I don't know what you have for buildings but there are other solutions. One might be to dig a trench to collect water closer to your use. Example-see where the water flows on your property and direct it to a pond where you can pump the water with less effort. Our rain always runs down the road so if I needed, i would make a bump in the road to run it to a pond. Not a perfect solution (for some reason each solution we come up shows us a new set of problems). Another might be to fence the animals near the creek so you only need to run your own water up hill. Others might come to me but like I said, each solution makes new problems to deal with so thinking it all through helps. We usually do what is quick, easy or cheap and I usually try to come up with at least 3 solutions to each problem we face and weight them all out, but the hubby usually integrates the cheapest into the fastest easier solution so coming up with as many alternatives means you might be able to take a little of each idea and make the best choice....which is usually not a log cabin by a creek whittling away....besides, what kind of challenge would that be? |
| You can lead an ass to knowledge, but you can not make it think. | |
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| Mommacat | Aug 16 2011, 08:43 AM Post #20 |
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I must say that I feel encouraged - in these parts, most people have sand point wells that are only down about 30-40 feet. The power required to draw up the water should be minimal. Distributing it to places other than the well site might be a challenge, though. |
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4:37 AM Jul 12