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Do you believe in Heaven?; If so, tell us how you see it?
Topic Started: Jul 3 2006, 05:11 AM (2,318 Views)
Geri_Berri
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Berrie's Goddess
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Hi...

I believe there is a heaven...I know there is no real proof...but I see heaven as a place for when you die, you get to lead the life you have always dreamed of...you get to see all those that you loved so much...it is a peacful place...that holds no saddness or hate...


What do you guys think?
Posted ImageRAW Berris... Dare you enter?
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Isis
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The Goddess of Darkness & Desire

I believe in Heaven....I also believe in God......
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Isis, The Goddess of Desire & Darkness. In The Darkness, We Find The Light.

This is a Drama Free Zone..!
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Falco Rex
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Bird Boss
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I guess I agree with Geri to a point..But..
Our mind operates in a mode where contrasts make our perception. That is our nature..Therefore if we went to place where eternal peace and happiness reigned eternal we might well become bored and our mind and soul would atrophy..
So perhaps heaven is a place where you can ultimately control the level of happiness or sadness..Perhaps it's a peaceful place where you rest and gather yourself together, and once you fell content you can choose to be reborn and work on those things you failed at in the life you just left behind..

Well..At least that ties together Christianity and Buddhismm..

Go me.. :rolleyes:
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marduk
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Falco
perhaps you can explain to me then why it is that in the ancient world heaven in every single ancient culture was always situated on a mountain top
Hebrewism invented spiritual heaven along with Satan as a reward for the good and a punishment for the bad
its a system of control
if you don't believe that then why don't you go check
reincarnation means that there is no heaven as we keep coming back here
the two are mutually exclusive
you can't have your cake and eat it because it makes you feel all warm and gooey inside or because you are worried about dying

and besides which
if there is a heaven it is presided over by that god that tried to kill every living thing on earth because he was annoyed, the same guy that allows Satan to torture your naughty relatives for all eternity because they made the mistake of not believing in him enough
and that imho is really hell
:P
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warden
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I wont go into it like marduk and falco, my answer is NO

We die and thats it ,
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Falco Rex
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Falco
perhaps you can explain to me then why it is that in the ancient world heaven in every single ancient culture was always situated on a mountain top


Firstly, understand that I speak on this only from my own views..

When ancient man (and frankly modern ones too) wished to know the unknowable and gain hope for the future or even an afterlife; they would tend to think and look UP; to the vastness of an incomprehensible space..
Therefore people associate good things with the "Up" concept..A mountaintop is merely concrete thought of "Up", as it's the planets' highest physical point..
When you think of the things you already know you think towards the ground or "Down"..We know pain and death and suffering already..An eternity of that is tied to the Earth we inhabit;subconsciously..
I doubt a real "Heaven" has a true geologic location or concept..If you even believe in life after death then the whole concept of physical place should go out the window automatically..

Quote:
 
Hebrewism invented spiritual heaven along with Satan as a reward for the good and a punishment for the bad


Actually "Hebrewism" doesn't expound to much on the afterlife at all..Even they weren't arrogant enough to be entirely sure of themselves..The concept of eternal hell came about later with the advent of catholicsm; and even they had purgatory..
Only modern bible-beaters believe in a Hell that's forever..
As for Satan..In Judaism he's merely an accuser or prosecuter..He has nothing to do with being bound in Sheol..
He exists to play the opposite advocate; whether Good or Evil..He tempts; he questions; but he doesn't rule from a palace of pain..

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if you don't believe that then why don't you go check
reincarnation means that there is no heaven as we keep coming back here
the two are mutually exclusive
you can't have your cake and eat it because it makes you feel all warm and gooey inside or because you are worried about dying


On our hard jourmey through life we have many moments that are in essence perfect..Moments that make us feel love..Moments that uplift us and help us keep going. After death, might we not know the same before moving on to round two?
To a soul that has known physical problems a thousand times before this respite might well be "Heaven"..
Sort of a spiritual recharge, as it were..
The concepts of reincarnation and heaven and hell are only mutually exclusive to a mind that's either lock-stepped into a western world ideology; or intellectually lazy..
The eastern world integrates them just fine..

Quote:
 
if there is a heaven it is presided over by that god that tried to kill every living thing on earth because he was annoyed, the same guy that allows Satan to torture your naughty relatives for all eternity because they made the mistake of not believing in him enough
and that imho is really hell


To look at it from a human perspective..How many people in your life have you filled with joy, hope and respect for you? Quite a few I'll bet..
Now how many of those same folks have you hurt or ended up making life miserable for? I'll bet the numbers are almost equal..
This is symptomatic of any being who experiences emotion..
To the Jews; God isn't a "Perfect" entity..Merely the first and most powerful; and due some reverance for it..
Only Christianity would have you believe him "Infallible"..
The point is..God grew with his creations..As we advanced, so did he; and he's a bit ahead,being all-powerful and all that jazz..
Here's the thing..
We're imperfect creations of an imperfect creator..
But we all have the capacity for love..When you find a true love in you life; you stick with them despite thier faults; and grow stronger as you help and heal each other..
It's a symbiotic relationship; and that's what I think mankind and god have..
As in any relationship; you get what you're willing to give..
Or not..

Well, that's just my tangled and rambling thoughts..Take them for what you will..



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marduk
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Quote:
 
When ancient man (and frankly modern ones too) wished to know the unknowable and gain hope for the future or even an afterlife; they would tend to think and look UP; to the vastness of an incomprehensible space..
Therefore people associate good things with the "Up" concept..A mountaintop is merely concrete thought of "Up", as it's the planets' highest physical point..
When you think of the things you already know you think towards the ground or "Down"..We know pain and death and suffering already..An eternity of that is tied to the Earth we inhabit;subconsciously..
I doubt a real "Heaven" has a true geologic location or concept..If you even believe in life after death then the whole concept of physical place should go out the window automatically..

so its nothing to do with the 5,000,000 people who surivived the ice age all happening to live in the mountains when it ended then where 95% of them worshipped a god who looked suspiciously like a human being ?

Quote:
 
Actually "Hebrewism" doesn't expound to much on the afterlife at all..Even they weren't arrogant enough to be entirely sure of themselves..The concept of eternal hell came about later with the advent of catholicsm; and even they had purgatory..
Only modern bible-beaters believe in a Hell that's forever..
As for Satan..In Judaism he's merely an accuser or prosecuter..He has nothing to do with being bound in Sheol..
He exists to play the opposite advocate; whether Good or Evil..He tempts; he questions; but he doesn't rule from a palace of pain..

doesnt stop them from actually being the first to think of spiritual heaven though does it, but they still kept the holy mountain concept in most of their beliefs which was where the "up" thing came from and not the other way round.
God was said to live in the mountains because way back when God did live in the mountains
God being the king of the race that lived at the highest point and by his position controlled trade between all the other groups.

Quote:
 
On our hard jourmey through life we have many moments that are in essence perfect..Moments that make us feel love..Moments that uplift us and help us keep going. After death, might we not know the same before moving on to round two?
To a soul that has known physical problems a thousand times before this respite might well be "Heaven"..
Sort of a spiritual recharge, as it were..
The concepts of reincarnation and heaven and hell are only mutually exclusive to a mind that's either lock-stepped into a western world ideology; or intellectually lazy..
The eastern world integrates them just fine..

actually the eastern world claims that you keep reincarnating until you are perfect and then if you are chosen you get to enter heaven (which is on a mountaintop).
if you don't behave you don't get better and reincarnate as a cockroach or some other such life form like a lawyer or politician.
the be good and get better be bad and get worse concept is about as western as you can get
the original ancient belief was that we all reincarnate over and over and that by being good we ensure that the world will be better each time we live on it until it is heaven
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Well, that's just my tangled and rambling thoughts..Take them for what you will..

do some actual research or get yourself a shrink
:P





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LarryOldtimer
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Since the Hebrews had it that God created mankind in His image, the similarity in looks is hardly suspicious. Hebrews and later, their remnant the Jews, had the afterlife in Shoel, which was hardly a Heaven. All who died went there (demonstrating a belief in "live" after death), whether good or evil, sinful or pure. All were treated the same, miserably. The concept of a pleasant "Heaven" was at least a very late conception for the Jews, if at all, and was far more a Christian concept, as was Hell and eternal punishment.

But, to get to Heaven, you first have to die, and only the crazies are willing to die to get there. The rest typically fight death all the way. Not so sure of themselves, Hmmmmmmm? B)
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Falco Rex
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do some actual research or get yourself a shrink


I can't believe the latter part of that sentence actually emanated from your keyboard...

Hi pot! I'm kettle! Nice to meet you.. :D
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marduk
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well i was going to say i already know a few good ones if you need the help
in fact i'm on first name terms with most of them
well the ones that havent taken out a restraining order on me :lmao:
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Falco Rex
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I've driven a few to drink myself..We should unite and ruin modern psychiatry as the world knows it.. :ph43r:
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Ashley Star Child
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I know Heaven exists from personal NDE experience. The Heavens are in space, and so are the hells both human and angel's.
Does a fallen angel deserve a second chance? You decide
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StrmySummer
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Storm Goddess

Yes, I believe in heaven and hell, God and the devil.
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"Beginning now, let's play more, kiss more, love more, let's be so close that when one of us cries, the other tastes salt."
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Snake
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History Mod
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Why believe and not wait to see?
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StrmySummer
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Snake
Aug 13 2006, 09:41 AM
Why believe and not wait to see?

Not wait to see?
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"Beginning now, let's play more, kiss more, love more, let's be so close that when one of us cries, the other tastes salt."
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