Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome back to The Border!
Quick Links Announcements
| Home | Member's Blogs |

| Enter Chat Room |

| Today's active topics |


You can also see and join us at:

TPB's YouTube Channel ~ Click to Register
The Vampire Lair on Facebook
and
MonsterVisionTV on Facebook

TPB's Quote of the Day!

We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Hidden Meanings; In Books and stuff.
Topic Started: Oct 23 2006, 07:09 PM (852 Views)
AtlantisRises
Member Avatar


I personally am a huge fan of Fantasy books.

I find that authors such as Tolkien, CS Lewis, David Gemmel etc are really attempting to portray their own world in a way.

I read these books in an attempt to find what their true messages are.

For instance Tolikens Lord of The Rings is often refered to as being about WW2. I personally don't see the comparisons to WW2.

CS Lewis's works are often said to be encouraging racism through some of the symbology.

For instance no good white girl would chase a Black rabbit down a hole.

Many different meanings are given to the things we read. Often the words context is screamed whenever we are trying to interpret these texts.

Tolkiens works are also often considered to be heavily christian in Symbology. For instance Elves represent Angels etc.

So what I wish to know is what do you read between the lines in your books.

are there hidden meanings. Is the Author trying to tell you something subconciously. Or is it merely a book designed for entertainment.

I await your responses with baited breath
Posted Image


Posted Image
Posted ImagePosted Image
Who is John Galt
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
AtlantisRises
Member Avatar


Aesthetic Symbology in Lord of the Rings


(written for "J.R.R. Tolkien: Middle Earth, Middle Ages", a grad-school class on the work and inspiration of J.R.R. Tolkien)

Tolkien's fiction has legions of fans, but there are also many people who disapprove of it for various reasons. In these detractors' opinion, Tolkien's work has serious flaws, either in concept or in execution, which seriously diminish its value. One of the many common criticisms leveled against Tolkien's books -- The Lord of the Rings in particular -- is that Tolkien equates outer beauty with inner goodness in the world he creates. This equating of external appearance with internal worth shows that Tolkien viewed the world prejudicially, some say, and encourages his readers to do the same; others simply complain that it will confuse readers, especially young ones, into thinking that only beautiful people are good. Both of these problems would be serious ones, and Tolkien's work deserves a close examination to ascertain if this claim is valid.

Critics who claim this about Tolkien's work use examples such as the Elves and the Orcs to support their point. Elves are beautiful -- tall, graceful, majestic, lovely -- and they are good. Orcs are ugly -- twisted, hideous, disgusting -- and they are evil. Lothlorien and Rivendell are gorgeous places; Mordor is sickeningly ugly. In Tolkien's simplistic view of the world, say these critics, the reader can safely assume that everything beautiful is good and everything ugly is evil -- which is very different indeed from reality, in which the distinction between good and evil is never so simple.

Firstly, in defense of Tolkien's portrayal of good and evil as outwardly manifest, a word can be said concerning the mythological nature of his story. In traditional myth and legend, beauty and ugliness are often seen as symbolic, and Tolkien uses them in a similar way at times in The Lord of the Rings. Shelob is ugly because she is, like Ungoliant before her, a sort of symbol of primal evil. This is not, of course, the way that good and evil truly appear in our world, but it is a nearly universal cultural tradition -- the Greek goddesses were beautiful too. Also, it is not usually true in Tolkien's world that something is evil because it is ugly. Mordor is not evil because it is ugly, it is ugly because it is evil -- Sauron's evildoing has harmed the very land and turned it foul. This is also a symbolic rendering, in that evildoing does not always produce visible ugliness in the real world, but it is true that evil twists things and in the end ruins them. Mordor's ugliness is an outward sign of inner corruption.

However, although at times Tolkien does use beauty and ugliness symbolically to indicate good and evil, I do not believe that these critics' disapproval is actually valid. Tolkien does not in fact consistently equate outer beauty with inner goodness at all. As a most basic example, the Ring itself is beautiful. "The gold looked very fair and pure, and Frodo thought how rich and beautiful was its colour, how perfect was its roundness. It was an admirable thing and altogether precious" (The Lord of the Rings, pg. 59). The beauty of the Ring is certainly deceptive, to put it lightly -- its outer beauty does not indicate inner goodness in the least! The Ring is arguably the central antagonist of the book, and the fact that it is outwardly beautiful is a strong indicator that Tolkien did not simply equate appearance with essence.

In addition, though, there are other significant points in which appearance and actuality are not the same, or in fact quite opposite. When the hobbits meet up with Aragorn in Bree, he is not physically attractive. His outer appearance belies his actual quality -- he 'looks foul and feels fair', as Sam thinks (LotR pg. 168). The Wild Men who help Théoden and the Rohirrim in Book V Chapter V are ugly. Even Gandalf, one of the Maiar incarnate, appears simply as an old man with "a long white beard and bushy eyebrows" (LotR pg. 24).

The hobbits themselves are also an example of beings whose appearance does not necessarily represent their inner worth. Hobbits are unlikely heroes -- unlike the Elves, they are not particularly beautiful, being short and stocky, with hairy feet! They certainly don't look noble or commanding or awe-inspiring in the least -- on the contrary, their appearance (as described by Tolkien) is more comic than anything else. However, the hobbits of The Lord of the Rings prove their worth -- both their courage and their moral fortitude -- in spite of their appearance. Tolkien shows here that in his world, inner goodness does not necessitate outer beauty.

When one investigates Tolkien's other Middle-Earth writings, aside from The Lord of the Rings, the issue becomes even more complicated. In The Silmarillion, for instance, we learn that the Elves, in spite of being all beautiful, are not likewise invariably good. Fëanor is described as "tall, and fair of face, and masterful, his eyes piercingly bright and his hair raven-dark (The Silmarillion, pg. 64) -- certainly outwardly beautiful. But his character is much more complex and difficult to classify than is his outer appearance -- he hates Melkor, but because of his faults of character he ends up doing many evil things. His outer beauty may represent his potential here, but it does not represent inner perfection.

In addition, we learn in Appendix A of The Lord of the Rings that Sauron himself once could appear beautiful; it was only after the fall of Númenor that "he was unable ever again to assume a form that seemed fair to men but became black and hideous" (LotR pg. 1013). Sauron was in fact fair enough to deceive the men of Númenor for many long years.

Obviously, then, in Tolkien's fiction, outer beauty and inner goodness -- and outer ugliness and inner depravity -- are not equated. Although, because of the mythological structure of the world which Tolkien has created, outer appearance is at times used to symbolize inner state, this mythological characteristic is by no means overused in the work, and a deeper investigation of this criticism shows that it is not, in the end, valid.

(by Sasha, 12/8/03)


Link
Posted Image


Posted Image
Posted ImagePosted Image
Who is John Galt
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
GreatWhiteHorse
Member Avatar
Friend of Caesar
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I too love fantasy novels. Many of them do indeed try and paint pictures or tell stories relating to the real world as viewed by the author...but not all of them.

The terrific series A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin is simply a fantastic yarn full of intrigue, politics and terribly graphic warfare...But it's in a fantasy medeival setting, and once you read it you may agree that one would be stretching to find correllations to the real world in there.

My favorite series of all time, in fact my favorite work of fiction of all time, is Frank Herbert's original Dune books.

They are masterworks; studies of political intrigue, maneuvering, religion and public controls. Herbert originally wrote them as a study how messiahs are made, with the story of protagonist Paul Atreides (or Mua'Dib) being directly influenced by Jesus.
Posted Image

The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. -Oscar Wilde
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
StoneAgeQueen
Member Avatar
Most Royal Highness of Palaeolithic Pleasures
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Wasn't Narnia meant to be based on Christianity?
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
GreatWhiteHorse
Member Avatar
Friend of Caesar
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Yeah, it was. Aslan(the lion) is a mirror of Jesus.

Most of C.S. Lewis' work was Christian-inspired. A particularly good book is The Screwtape Letters. It's Lewis' best, IMO. It's about the battle for one man's soul.
Posted Image

The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. -Oscar Wilde
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
AtlantisRises
Member Avatar


Yep. The return of Aslan is meant to represent the second coming.

Evil thinking it rules the world is defeated by a being who is the symbol of all that is good.

Aslan sacrifices much etc, etc
Posted Image


Posted Image
Posted ImagePosted Image
Who is John Galt
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Max
Member Avatar
Pickle barrel, pickle barrel, Kumquat!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I think too that The Lord Of The Rings doesn't represent WW II so much as it does any and all periods of transition. The book is much concerned with "the End of the Age of" [ magic,elves,innocence] what have you. In his own life, Professor Tolkien had witnessed the end of "The Green and Pleasant" pastoral age in England and the coming age of both Industry and the Great War.

When I read the book,the sadness for me is not at the death of heroes, but the loss-knowing that Frodo has lost everything and literally cannot go home again. Not because home as changed,but because Frodo has.

I think we all find such a time in our lives,and all we can do is adapt.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
DealsFor.me - The best sales, coupons, and discounts for you
« Previous Topic · Hobbies and Interests · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Web Hosting Reviews
Web Hosting Reviews
Skin Created by Xarina of Rapture & Zathyus Networks Resources.
This theme is best viewed in firefox.