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Hip hop debate
Topic Started: Oct 30 2006, 02:37 AM (471 Views)
StoneAgeQueen
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Most Royal Highness of Palaeolithic Pleasures
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Ok. In this thread GWH and Rhy will debate on whether hip hop music glamorises violence. The debate will run for seven days (starting from today 30.Oct.2006)). Only the participants are allowed to post in here to avoid confusion. Any other posts made by other members WILL BE DELETED. GWH is of the opinion that hip hop does glamorise violence, Rhy takes the opposing view. Over to you guys! <_<
I have decided that a poll will be the fairest way to judge the winner of the debate. This will be put up at the end.
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rhyknow
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Oki dokis... well here goes nothing.

Hip Hop music- true hip hop music, that is, doesn't focus on violence. The music that does, and in fact focuses on the "Gangsta Lifestyle" (50 Cent or Tupac are examples here) isn't true hiphop music. It is infact more to be considered as Rap music or R 'n' B which, while being offshoots of hip hop, are not the same thing.

If we look at the roots of hip hop music, it evolved on the streets. The lyrical influences were just on daily life... And for many of the artists involved in the hip hop movement of the 70s, violence was a day of life. Please remember that talking about violence isn't the same as GLAMOURISING it. Beleive it or not, modern hip hop artists such as Mr Lif, Busdriver... their lyrics are more abstract or politically motivated, and do infact try to distance themselves from today's "thug life" attitude that was popularized by Tupac or B.I.G. They are advocates of the true hip hop movement... moving back to it's roots.

Over to you GWH
"L'essentiel, c'est de jouer au Karaoke"

Jaco Pastorius : December 1st, 1951 - September 21st, 1987. R.I.P to the greatest electric bassist ever.

“Don’t hate the media, become the media.” - Jello Biafra
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GreatWhiteHorse
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What I am going to focus on in this debate is the influence hip-hop has on the culture that invented it, young black America.

In fact, the hip-hop culture has completely supplanted the culture of American black youth, defining, in essence, and entire section of the population. While it is true what rhyknow says about the origins of hip-hop, today the genre is largely about street life, violence, the objectification of women as 'bitches' and 'hos', sex, and making money.

Political rap, slick, ultra-cool kung-fu rap and the like performed by artists like Common or the Wu-Tang Clan are splinter groups. For every one Common there are 30 Ludacris's and 50 Cents. Kids follow these performers and idolize them, thinking that being a man is smoking weed, sleeping with as many women as possible and rolling on 20-inch rims.

Today, rap IS hip-hop. It is clothing, attitude and lifestyle which speaks for an entire culture group searching for an identity.
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rhyknow
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Ok... As GWH so rightly pointed out, mainstream hip hop does focus on so called 'street life'. But for this post, i'd like to focus on some of the splinter hip hop artists and their lyrics. So to start off, here are the lyrics to "phantom" by Mr. Lif.

Quote:
 
Check it out
I been waitin', playin', for a long time
X amount of thoughts carried out in my mind
I turn on the TV, I see crime
Script written diligently and aired on time
Push the power button, now I'm to the tower somethin
Opened up my fridge and found nothin
Tipped to my room with an aura of gloom
Wishin' I could write another tune
But my hands are paralyzed, plus my eyes
Wanna shed tears, but it's not possible, there's
The burden of things I couldn't bear
Feelings weren't dealt with properly
Remorse follows me
With his good friend, the threat of poverty
Here's where I am, versus where I think I oughtta be
There's a certain chance I'm a victim of circumstance
I take a look at myself and at first glance
I see who I recently thought to be me
Based on identities public and private
Behold the radio pirate, ya nigga
A felon, chillin' with a gun to your melon
A pimp with his pockets swellin', a jester
A slave with wounds that fester, the wanna-be
Pre-med 3-D dread an academic reject
Hopin' to detect life, erect what god gave
Human laws are laid, we go to war, come back
And come up with more
I'm kind, friendly, your worst enemy
Charming, crass, and potentially
Dangerous, have you ever heard of such?
I'm invisible and impossible to touch

I still say fresh dope and things of that sort
I don't shoot up, smoke crack, or take shorts
Your thoughts are always welcome, I seldom
Won't enter another's perspective, corrective lenses
Are somethin' that I wear, so I can see the globe real clear
Look, there's famine over there, plus the families in fear
Of disease and distress that lingers in the air
These are the words of a man in purgatory
Words of a simpleton living in oblivion
Is this the model for life you will envisionin
free as can be in a world of imprisonment?
I dare you to check new territory
American dream?Time for another story
One where I don't choke to keep afloat
I'm sick of livin' on false visions of hope
With a knife to my own throat
Stick of dynamite inside my overcoat
Because I know the ropes
Reality in this world is bought and sold
A very limited scope of life is shown
And I'm just one of the mold, fully controlled
Left to erode in my humble abode
You won't hear me because I got no loot
You don't hear me because you don't compute
I'm docile, psycho, have you heard of such?
I'm invisible and impossible to touch

Single mother, who are you?(I phantom)
Office worker, who are you?(I phantom)
Caught up in the system, who are you? (I phantom)
Tryin' to earn a living, who are you? (I phantom)
Depressed and uninspired, who are you? (I phantom)
Hard-workin', broke and tired, who are you? (I phantom)
Seekin' education, who are you? (I phantom)
Can't get ahead no matter what you do? (I phantom)


OK.. .so let's take a quick look at the parts in bold... First of all

"I turn on the TV and see crime"; now if we actually listen to the track, we hear Lif's voice fill with sudden sadness. Put in the context with the song, it's like he's saying that's all the mainstream media seem to focus on these days, and crime perpetuated by minorities.

Secondly:

"I don't shoot up, smoke crack or take shorts". It's Lif's way of basically saying "When you think a black rapper from the street, you stereotype."

and for the final paragraph... It's a well formulated observation on American society. Seeking education, single mother; hard working... what do you get for it? you get shunned by society! It's an observation on daily, and street life.

As GWH pointed out though, artists like this are a minority.
"L'essentiel, c'est de jouer au Karaoke"

Jaco Pastorius : December 1st, 1951 - September 21st, 1987. R.I.P to the greatest electric bassist ever.

“Don’t hate the media, become the media.” - Jello Biafra
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StoneAgeQueen
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Ok the debate ended today. Do you guys want more time or is this it? :unsure:
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rhyknow
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I'm good... it's up to GWH if he wants to further his argument
"L'essentiel, c'est de jouer au Karaoke"

Jaco Pastorius : December 1st, 1951 - September 21st, 1987. R.I.P to the greatest electric bassist ever.

“Don’t hate the media, become the media.” - Jello Biafra
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GreatWhiteHorse
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Sorry, Ive been rather busy.

Yes, I would like to further my argument.

Hip hop and rap artists of today have the enormous responsibility of not only speaking for, but largely defining urban black culture. It is a responsibility taken lightly, though, and the evidence of it's influence can be seen everywhere.

I live in Detroit...it doesnt get much more 'urban' than this. Everyday I see busted-up cars with shiny rims on them, pimps in cadillacs and destroyed neighborhoods. The problem with this is that it has almost become an accepted way of life for the younger generations. The 'hood' is what it is...no need to change it, just make your own money.

Civic pride is gone, brotherhood is replaced by violence. The leaders of youth culture, the rap/hip-hop artists, talk of women and drugs, guns and money. They have preached a type of glorification of the ghetto lifestyle, making it cool to be a 'gangsta'. It is past the point of being social commentary, as rhyknow and others would suggest. It has become an active, major reason for the ghetto existence of young, rebellious, urban America.
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The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. -Oscar Wilde
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Isis
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Rhyknow do you wish to reply before the debate is closed?....
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Isis, The Goddess of Desire & Darkness. In The Darkness, We Find The Light.

This is a Drama Free Zone..!
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