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10 Reasons to Believe in the Paranormal; A Metaphysical Approach
Topic Started: Nov 20 2009, 02:14 PM (2,476 Views)
Christopher
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Acolyte
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I wasn't sure where to post this, can someone please move it for me if it is not the best location, thanks?

1/. Humankind's knowledge is not limitless.

2/. Unusual 'phenomena' have been recounted throughout history.

3/. Deja Vu, 'exists'.

4/. The sub-conscious portion of our minds are consciously, 'untappable', what exists in 'there', and, Nature 'creates/does' everything for a reason?

5/. Unless we all suffer from mass hallucinations, many people have experienced their own personal 'unexplainable' moments, without recounting them for fear of ridicule.

6/. Animals have a 'sixth' sense.......we too are animals, of a human kind.

7/. We have 'auras' that either 'connect' or don't with others, which has nothing to do with pheromones.

8/. Yet to be properly 'explained' Near Death Experiences occur.

9/. If, at a quantum level, electrons 'appear' to travel faster than the speed of light, by simultaneously occupying every point of their orbits, then, our 'laws' of science are only one 'fragmented' component of 'reality', anything outside of these laws is unknown ('paranormal') and therefore discounted until rigidly 'proven'.

10/. If the Universe is infinite, then, by the 'laws' of probability, the 'para' normal will exist somewhere.........why not here?


All just my perspective of course, I don't have any documented 'evidence'. :lol:
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newbloodmoon
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Interesting perspective on the subject. Thanks for posting your thoughts.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire

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Christopher
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Thank you. I guess that all I was trying to highlight, is that there is far more that we don't know than we actually do know, therefore, to debunk the paranormal (or unknown), doesn't reflect expansive thinking, more knowledge is required first, just my thoughts of course. :)
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Delovely
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In Fine Artistry

Yes, thank you for sharing your interesting thoughts on the matter, Chris. It's an endless process of searching for answers that even any scientific studies can't almost hardly debunk.
Some things must be handled smoothly, quietly.

"When you are deluded and full of doubt, even a thousand books of wisdom are not enough. When you have realized understanding, even one word is too much."
~*~


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Christopher
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Thank you. I think that the scientific process has taken us forwards in leaps and bounds in many fields of endeavour, technology, physiology, astronomy, etc., but, it also has a downside. Many theories get 'squashed' or ridiculed because they are not the 'flavour of the day', I sometimes wonder what we've missed out on as well as gained through the process, 'boxed-thinking' and self-interest also seem to play a part.

If the same endeavour had been placed into research of the paranormal as it has say in the field of technology over the centuries, I wonder what our 'understanding' of this field would now be?

There is a lass down here from one of our universities who is doing a prolonged survey and study, over the net, into the paranormal, as with anything else, the more data that you can obtain, the better the conclusion that you can arrive at. I'll be interested to see the results. One of her beefs is that there is really not that much 'reliable' info on the subject in the public domain, however, she has full access to universitys' own library databases, in which exist (albeit obscurely), much more info/research.
Edited by Christopher, Nov 22 2009, 07:12 AM.
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LarryOldtimer
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I find that my own personal experiences provide more than enough reasons for me. :brows:
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Prison Break
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i believe those listed above
good points
now larry, you might want to add some of yours too eh?
it's always nice to see what people thinks of the paranormal
"Those who say they can't do things are inept" -by Nora P.
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Christopher
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LarryOldtimer
Nov 22 2009, 10:29 AM
I find that my own personal experiences provide more than enough reasons for me. :brows:
That's the thing Larry, I think that a lot of us have had genuine personal experiences, but very few people say anything about them, because they just aren't believed, so don't bother and of course if you've had one of these 'experiences', they are almost impossible to prove as far as rigorous scientific standards go.
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Christopher
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Prison Break
Nov 22 2009, 10:49 AM
i believe those listed above
good points
now larry, you might want to add some of yours too eh?
it's always nice to see what people thinks of the paranormal
Thanks Prison Break! :thumbup: I'd be interested to hear Larry's too, in all seriousness. :yes:
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LarryOldtimer
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Scientists (well, at least "real" scientists) use what is called "scientific method". That is all that they have been taught to do. Now, scientific method requires that little thingy called "replication". That is, the exact same circumstances and conditions have to be closely replicated to check the validity (demonstrate the same results by experiment) of any theory that is proposed. Any person competent in the field of the science involved should be able to replicate the circumstances and conditions, and get essentially the same results, by way of experimentation, for assurance that the theory is a valid one.

Can't replicate the same exact circumstances and conditions, or at least closely approximate them? Can't use the scientific method. So then, "real" scientists are just unable to deal with the subject of the paranormal at all, and they know it, so they don't even try. It would be a waste of their time and energy.

Of course, there are always those few who will attempt to push the edges of the envelope of knowledge a bit more open for all to see more of what might lie inside, and so there are always a few who try to do that very thing.

I salute those who try to push the edges of the envelope of knowledge a bit further apart. Sometimes, they even succeed.
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LarryOldtimer
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I have always admitted (since I have been retired, that is) that I am a strange and yes, even, rather weird person. And indeed, I have a really high IQ to match. So then, why would I expect that my paranormal experiences would match anyone else's?

And, indeed, they have not. Most people I have spoken to or read about have had essentially the same, or close to the same, experience over and over again. Me? Mine are almost always different than the last one.

For instance, the other night I was leaning back on my sofa to read a book. I leaned forward for a piece of cookie (love those chocolate chip cookies) on the coffee table, and looked down on the carpet, and saw what looked like a bit of black hair as would come from a cat or dog. A sort of black doggy or kitty "fluff". I live completely alone, and have no pets at all.

So I reached down to pick it up and examine it more closely. The forefinger and thumb of my right hand closed on it, and I saw it between my finger and thumb as I raised it to look at it more closely. And . . . and . . . just as my hand got to the level of the top of the sofa cushiions, it just disappeared. "Damn," I thought to myself, "I must not have had a good hold on it after all." So I looked back down, and there on the carpet was the same bit of "fluff", except that it was about 6 inches closer to the sofa . . . exactly where it would have landed had I indeed dropped it from where it was when it disappeared from between my thumb and finger.

So, undeterred, I picked the thing up again between my finger and thumb. And more closely watched it as I raised it up. Funny thing, while I could see it clearly, I could not actually feel it between my finger and thumb. And, when it had been raised approximately to my eye level . . . it disappeared again, and was nowhere to be seen after that second try at examining it closely.

I sure don't know what it is that keeps messing about with me, but as I have never actually been damaged by whatever it is, I don't worry about it in the least.

Being transported in an instant from a location on one freeway to another location on another freeway at least 14 miles away? Having a good many small stones fall on the hood and fender of my vehicle out of nowhere in the middle of the SoCal desert? Seeing living things appear before my very eyes and drop on the floor in front of me, things which were perceptible to both vision and touch, and indeed wiggling around? (Not the sort of things which anyone would want to see on their own kitchen floor, I assure all of you.) Old hat to me, these sorts of experiences are.

But the thing is, whenever one of the "more serious" paranormal experiences comes my way, for a bit of time, I am, well, stunned would be a good word for it, and act in a sensible way immediately afterwards? Not for a while. I always think to myself, "Have I gone insane?" Because it sure seems as if I had done exactly that each time it has happened.

I began college when I was 17 years old as a pre-engineering student. After two semesters, having no further money of my own to pay for tuition, and being so darned independent that I would not ask for any (and it was available for the asking), I enlisted in the USAF. When I separated from the USAF, I went back to college (the Korean GI Bill was a real help for me, and I did feel that I had earned it), and changed my major to physics. But, on the way, first the college system itself screwed me (lengthier process), and since I had a wife and 2 daughters, and the month was lasting a lot longer than the money was, I went to work for a living.

In the end, I did have an excellent career as a professional civil engineer in CA. From whence I retired 14 years ago the end of this year. Life has been good to me. I have no idea of what new paranormal experience awaits me. Life is, indeed, always "interesting", it is. At least for me, that is.
Edited by LarryOldtimer, Nov 22 2009, 07:02 PM.
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Christopher
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Thanks for sharing Larry! :thumbup:

"I salute those who try to push the edges of the envelope of knowledge a bit further apart. Sometimes, they even succed."

I agree completely, if you delve back through history, so many people that made great breakthroughs were either persecuted, ridiculed or both. The list is long, but just as an example, Copernicus and Galileo come immediately to mind.

That "Have I gone insane?" thought of yours after one of your "more serious" experiences is totally understandable, but, I often question the definition of what sanity really is. It seems to me that from birth, we are 'conditioned' by our parents, education, and societal and cultural expectation as to what 'sane experiences' are. If anything falls outside of the parameters of the 'accepted norm', the general response would be, "Have you gone insane?", but, to my mind, this is in reality a defensive mechanism/statement that people use to hide/protect themselves from things that they don't understand or can explain away, it's sort of like, 'hiding under the bedcovers'.
(I hope that I've made sense here, I've got a tendency to ramble. :yes: )

In terms of being strange and weird, there is only one thing I can say,
"Vive la difference!". It would be a pretty boring world if we were all the same, and that takes us back to that cloning post and that Winston Churchill quote too! :lol:
Edited by Christopher, Nov 23 2009, 07:58 AM.
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LarryOldtimer
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For myself, I think that it was more that I had been well trained in classical physics. And the 10 units of chemistry in my Freshman year, 3 lectures and two labs each week will tend to mold the mind.

Before I was about 30 years old, I thought i had the world by its tail. I thought that conventional science held all the answers. Then came what I call the new reality. Either I had to accept that what I experienced was real, or deny my "sanity" and for that matter, my very being.

As I said, I was well trained in the scientific method, and, as civil engineering requires careful measurements, i was and am good at that sort of thing too. And I didn't just experience these sorts of things, I measured as accurately as I could whatever I could detect of them. While these events were actually happening. It is only "after the event" that I get that "stunned" feeling. During the "events" I am the usual and careful (and extremely curious) engineer that I am, noting and indeed recording all that I can at the time.

I haven't kept any of the notes that I made. Simply telling anyone at all of these experiences would have destroyed my career. Except for when someone else was also involved, and experienced exactly the same thing that I did, I never spoke of them, and certainly would have never left any written evidence around. The few people who were also "experiencers" would not even discuss them with me all that long after the events happened. I think that while I remained extremely curious, and got over that "it couldn't have happened" feeling reasonably quickly, the others were downright afraid of what had happened, and didn't want to have to accept that these events actually happened to them.

Other things about me. As I said, I have been well trained, and have myself advanced the state of the art of civil engineering on occasion, when existing procedures and conventional solutions wouldn't get the job required done. But I much prefer to research the paranormal at "arms length" so to speak. Perhaps it is just me being overly cautious, but I do prefer it that way. Even though a paranormal experience has saved my life at least a couple of times. I have "knocked at death's door" a number of times, too many to keep count of, and "death" just wouldn't let me in on those occasions.

For me, being a human being has decidedly been one of those "E-ticket" rides. And it looks as if . . . more exciting and fun ride ahead. Sometimes I now feel that I am simply getting to old for this sort of thing any more. Then again . . . there is the lure and allure of it all.
Edited by LarryOldtimer, Nov 23 2009, 08:35 PM.
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Christopher
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Larry, my experiences are different to yours, but there are some similarities in terms of our 'world' perceptions at a younger age and now. When I was in my 30's I was the general manager of a country for Coca-Cola Amatil in the South Pacific, I also thought that I had the world by the tail, excellent high paying job, 2 beautiful children etc., but, this is when I started to realize that there was more to life than just 'position' and material possession. I started to ponder on what was really important, but by moving away from mainstream thinking it put intolerable stress on my marriage as my, then, wife, couldn't understand it, so she eventually left me. I also went through some close to death experiences around this time, and that really made me think about what was important to me, so I decided to focus on Nature.

This is when I started to realize and think that everything around us is interconnected in some form or another and I now have a very close affinity with Nature. I have had wasps 'play' with me, they headbutt you, as they do with each other, when they are 'messing around' and I've seen them playing 'catchy' with dragonflies, chasing each other around the swimming pool. Bees also land on me for a rest after pollen gathering before heading back to their hive.

I'm very 'close' to the birds as well. I have handfed wild Kookaburras (which is extremely uncommon), wild homing pigeons land on my head and arms and mate at my feet (it happened yesterday), I also had a baby Australian Noisy Minor land on my shoulder on it's maiden flight (yesterday too). The Parrakeets (who I don't feed) divebomb at head height to see how close they can get then veer off at the last moment. Some of the ducks and pigeons walk through my back door (which is always open) to see what is going on. One of the pigeons once landed on my keyboard which made it a little difficult to type! :lol:

On another occasion I was extremely angry at something and shouted mentally, not verbally) as loud as I could in anger, every single bird on the viewable horizon arose simultaneously into the air at this precise moment, I'm with you on this, after the event you get that stunned feeling, thinking, "That couldn't have just happened!", but it did.

There are other experiences as well but I don't wish to be too verbose....which I normally am. :)

You summed up perfectly why people very rarely relate these experiences, it can be career destroying and for the 'uninitiated' it can be terrifying.

I'm also with you on the "E-ticket" ride and I personally don't think that we really get too old to enjoy it. I don't believe that mental acuity dims with age (unless one has a physical ailment) providing that we challenge and keep our minds active as a form of exercise. My belief also, is that the longer that we have lived, the more life experiences we have had, and these experiences assist us in reaching 'sounder' conclusions when contemplating/pondering on 'issues'.

Here's to life, challenge, the unknown and 'growth'..... "male vamp" (sorry about the vampire, it's the only one they have toasting! :lol: ).



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LarryOldtimer
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I tried the "living high" lifestyle. And had enough money to do it. Back about 1980 my wife at the time and I were invited guests when the "Black Pope" spoke at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles. Now that was a fancy "do" indeed, with all of the rich and famous of the Roman Catholic Church who could get invitations attending. Had me a nice Mercedes Benz 300SD to get meself there in too. Now how did I get an invite to that one? I have my ways.

I tried it for a while. But at heart, I am still just a "country boy", and much prefer a far more simple lifestyle. Too much has to be paid in return for the rich and foolish or famous sort of thing.

I have always been as gentle as I can afford to be with Nature. One place in the SoCal desert, where my older brother and I were doing a bit of weekend mining, sunup was nice indeed. Always the flies came out, and with them would come various lizards, looking for breakfast. Those lizards, and one "horney toad", would wait patiently at our feet, to catch the flies coming down as we whacked the flies. When my brother and I finished breakfast and began working (and stopped whacking the flies), those lizards would just go back to doing whatever it is lizards do in the desert. Quite a good show, it made.

When I was still in high school, I would go each year, just before school began, with a few (older) friends to Minnesota, to do a bit of fishing. Nothing I liked better than to get out on the lake alone in a boat before sunrise, turn off the engine, throw out the anchor, then kick back in the boat and watch and listen to the whole forest come alive at the break of dawn. Beats any Las Vegas show I have ever seen.

I like it just fine, being retired (almost 14 years now), and really hate even thinking about having to work for a living again. Oh well, I have been there before, and it has been a very nice interlude.

Edited by LarryOldtimer, Nov 24 2009, 06:29 PM.
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