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COFR
Topic Started: Oct 22 2006, 02:14 PM (1,442 Views)
Ds Rainbow Phoenix
Unregistered

I favor joining an existing "Commonwealth" region such as COFR way above forming our own BUT would this mean we loose control of our Foreign Relations and have to go along with the COFR?

If so, then I am not in favor. I truly do not see why we can't do both but I do not think we should not have an Exodus FR. It is an important part of our region and I am loath to give it up.

As usual on these things, I need to know where VB stands on this.
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Hiigar


No. If you are friends whit somebody it is not are problem. Only if they are not attacked are regions in cofr. And well we did not creat one foreign affairs minister. I am against this. Diffrent regions must have diffrent interest. But well we can work together, talk about foreign affairs and make are foreign affairs more interesting. We can work together in foreign affairs, whit not destructing old relationship and foreign affairs. Like if i never contacted your great region i would not meet the great region - Dun Eideann 2. So i am for diffrent foreing affaris ministrys in diffrent regions. But i am for that they work togther and only help each other. And cofr is not alliance like - Do that, do this. We are more - What do you think? Is it a bad idea or a good one? So we want to work whit diffrent people, not one minister who even does not know what the people of diffrent regions want. And well you can always talk to COFR because if you join cofr, you will be a part of cofr and you can say - COFR is are alliance.
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Rael One
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Is it possible to Close this thread and allow this discussion to continue in the Regional Assembly?
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Ds Rainbow Phoenix
Unregistered

Merged my dear Rael :D
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Hiigar


Thanks for closing that. So any other quastions?
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Joshua
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The Original Founder

I am personally against joinign COFR, and am for us establishing our own commonwealth.

Hiigar, may I ask what position you hold in COFR?
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Via Bestiae
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Unofficial Court Jester/Slightly to the Left of LOL

I am still against joining COFR. It is an alliance with a very nebulous purpose, and not something that I think would benefit The Exodus.
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Hiigar


Well i am only as admin and i am representitev of Amor Fati Anagenesis in the council. Sometimes i call my self founder, but well i was only founder of the first one, right now COFR was created by Amor Fati Anagenesis. So i am not an Emperor, God, Provitel, Caria, or something like that. But that would be nice. :lol:

COFR is for creating a unity of regions whit the saim ideas and making are regions more interested and united. First COFR or Argindian COFR was created for unity of Argindia-Ithaka and other regions. So second cofr or AFA cofr is created for uniting people, uniting nation states, creating an alliance in Cyber Nations if something happeneds in Nation States, because we already see problems whit recruting and interest in nation states, we creat are alliance for creating a new kind alliance - Social and Political, whit not losing are Freedom. If you don't like something in cofr join cofr, and tell the council, i think that all will be interested in listening your point and probably vote yes. Yes i am not creating an alliance were we have an Emperor, i am against it, who will join a region whit 10 people? Then there will be no point in this alliance.

Why creat an alliance when we had already created an alliance and are interested in you taking power in are alliance. And what the point of your alliance?

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Joshua
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The Original Founder

Hiigar I honestly have trouble following your posts. :mellow:

COFR sems to have noble ideals, but I still am not sure how you encourage freedom, democracy and the other ideals you folks cherish. COFR sounds great in theory.
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Rael One
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Joshua
Oct 28 2006, 11:12 AM
I am personally against joinign COFR, and am for us establishing our own commonwealth.

Hiigar, may I ask what position you hold in COFR?

Wow what a surprise!


I know the Commonwealth has been your "BABY" for quite awhile. I am really not surprised that you would object to COFR.

I personally believe we should look into it before we routinely just dismiss it.
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Joshua
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The Original Founder

Have we not looked at it? It has been proposed to us several times before, and the government to my knowledge ahs not supported joining it. Hiigar is welcome to keep proposing his idea to us.

And for the record I am not the only one who has not supported this idea. My reasons for not joining are this:

1. I do not feel the goals, and the means for achieveing them are clear.
2. The last time we joined a group in this similar situation was FORT, and we ended up taking over that group and it fizzled.
3. I feel DSL's proposal for a commonwealth is more beneficial to the region and the nations here.
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Hiigar


Well


2. The last time we joined a group in this similar situation was FORT, and we eneded taking over that group and it fizzled.

Well it is impossible. The first cofr, was a great idea, we did not had any problems whit invasions or regions leaving. (It failed when all regions became inactive). And could you please tell me more about FORT?

3. I feel DSL's proposal for a commonwealth is more benefitial to the region and the nations here.

Maybe just give a chance? You don't like it you leave and creat a new alliance. If you don't like it, it would be good for you will learn what wore the problems and what you don't want to see in your alliance. You like it, you stay, and we will be happy that you are members of are alliance and we have members of your regions as part of the council.

1. I do not feel the goals, and the means for achieveing them are clear.

In reallity the main goal is to have fun, creat interest in all regions and etc. First COFR , was created and was a fun org, all joined it. We had festivels, voted against UN issues if we don't like it, worked together in diplomatical like some members helped us finding new regions, some just wanted to find friendly regions, some wanted to find new interesting ideas for there regions. So the saim is in AFA COFR. But this time we want to creat a goverment for the confedereracy so all regions have a say and what they want.

And well i remembered why we did not have one main goal. Hali Luia! COFR how i already said is a flexible org. so the main goals will be made not by one region, but whit all. So the only non-official goal is to have fun and make are regions better. In reallity i am a bad diplomat, always was and always will be. :D
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oodges
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annoyance united

the problem with joining an alliance and just leaving it a month later is that there's always a nation or two that has put in hard work and when their region decides to pull out, they're left out in the cold. they've put in work for no reason where they could have spent their time on something else. despite this i think we should do it, they're good regions that're in it so far, and like Hiigar has stated many times, its flexible, we can make our end of it what we want it to be. we could end up having a few of our own allies joining this alliance, COFR could do our work for us. it COULD do our work for us
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Dr Strange Love
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"Rabble Rouser"

I'm with VB and Joshua on this one.
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Rael One
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Well I'm with Hiigar and Oodges on this one.

Once Joshua tells the tale of The Fort and Hiigar presents the Goals of COFR, I feel we will all have a positive view of the Merit of COFR on a number of levels.
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Via Bestiae
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Unofficial Court Jester/Slightly to the Left of LOL

Rael One
Oct 29 2006, 12:43 AM
Once Joshua tells the tale of The Fort and Hiigar presents the Goals of COFR, I feel we will all have a positive view of the Merit of COFR on a number of levels.

I know the story of FORT, having been there from the beginning in both of its incarnations, and I have been waiting to hear what the goals of COFR are since the beginning. Something more than a glorified embassy exchange that we can mold into whatever we want it to be if we join, which is about all I've gotten from Hiigar's previous posts. Why should we join an alliance that has no clear purpose to mold into what we want it to be when we're still trying to figure out what we want this region itself to be?
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Joshua
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The Original Founder

VB you said it better then I could have.

I am not trying to bash Hiigar or COFR, but I too have been waiting to hear what the goals are as well. We get to trade embassies? We do that already!

The commonwealth proposal there are clear goals and objectives.
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oodges
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annoyance united

all true

either we decline the invitation, or we join and give these people a direction. if we are going to make our own commonwealth, what is going to be its purpose?
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Hiigar


So what are the goals of The commonwealth? :mellow:

First we don't only open embassys. Yes we have them, because whit out them cofr is not a real org.. COFR main goal how i had already said is to have fun, but it is not official. There is no official goal, because how i had already said we are flexible. That is the problem. We have goals, but they will change in 3 or 20 days. Time changes all. So members of the alliance chooses there goals, not only one the alliance. Alliance is made by the people of all regions, not only one region. Right now the main official goal is to grow, to make cofr a more open and interesting org, to make COFR not only a word org. but a real one so we are opening first Embassys, HQ and etc. there we start propagandiang are ideas, proposse ideas, invite people and etc. So we are opening interest. The other that i am interested to learn from the Exodus. So in reallity we can give power to the people of the exodus who are interested, and again i say we are flexible, you can make from us what you like, only if other members agree, or there is no point in COFR. COFR is Pro-Democratical, because well all are laws, possitions and etc are democratical. We don't have Possitions like Emperors or etc. We only have one possition like that - Hero, but this is more like a way to say thanks. I think Love and Honour and Snowflake and Emerald Phoenix have this possition. LAH is former president of GRA, he was first for the idea there, S. is founder of Dun Eideann 2, he helped a lot to COFR, and EP the second person from the first confederacy, he helped to creat the new confederacy and still helps in Amor Fati Anagenesis. And well COFR is more then creat embassys, yes we need them but only for talking whit the people and bringing interest in to COFR and regions in the confederacy.
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Joshua
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The Original Founder

We already have fun my friend. ^_^

The goals fo the commonwealth as stated by DSL are:

Quote:
 
Well if I make a suggestion, I believe that the purpose of The Exodus should be the promotion of civil libertarian principles both regionally and internationally through The Exodus Commonwealth. I think this would jive fairly nicely with the regional image we have had up to this point.


Also, under the commonwealth proposal we have the ability to establish an army which could opens more possibilities for us.

Also, members of the commonwealth may claim citizenship in other regions of the commonwealth as well. Which could really improve activity.
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Hiigar


Also, members of the commonwealth may claim citizenship in other regions of the commonwealth as well. Which could really improve activity.
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The saim. I am already citizen of all of region in the confederacy. Other people are citizens too. And well all people of all regions are citizen of COFR, only of diffrent states.

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Also, under the commonwealth proposal we have the ability to establish an army which could opens more possibilities for us.
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The saim. Only we don't have a united army, we have diffrent armys but they had already worked togehter. And it was a great battle against Nazi. And well we already have a plan for a united army of AFA-GRA-DE2. But well we are more defending then defenders. So we defende only if needed.


About the laws the saim. We promote by democratical laws, Judging and council. We promote freedom the saim. We already doing that, when you only say you want to do that. So all that you proposse we are already doing. ;)

And well we already created a lot, are alliance already is living. Are alliance will live.

And well no one had tolled my about FORT.
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Hiigar


So. :P
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Rael One
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At this point there appears a major differences between the Ideals of The Commonwealth and the Confederacy of Friendly Regions (COFR).

One difference is who as control of the Organization.
  • The Commonwealth places The Exodus, and reguires member regions to turn over a portion of their regional control to The Commonwealth.

    COFR asks for no control over Member Region, rather invites them to join and share common benefits.

Another difference is goals:
  • The Commonwealth sets the goals and directs the member regions to follow these established goal. If an addition goal is sought it is approved under the direction of the head organization.

    COFR allows the member regions to suggest and promote goals. Then through a discussion and vote of ALL member regions approves or disapproves the Goals. The member region presenting the goals would still be able to pursue those goals.

Another is promotin of special events.
  • The Commonwealth would establish special events or vote to approve special event, and then promote those.

    COFR would allow member region to establish special events, and would have special events itself. Member regions would be aloow to have special events and the benefit of mutual support.

The two organization are different and seek different paths, yet both wish to unify regions for a cause. Whether it is a Common Cause or a Directed Cause depends upon the organization.

I could see COFR welcoming The Commonwealth and The Commonwealth less able to do so.

I guess it boils down to the regions who are sought and invited to join.

Which would they accept and chose?
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Dr Strange Love
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"Rabble Rouser"

Well in case anybody is wondering about COFR, here is their forum

http://z10.invisionfree.com/COFR/index.php?act=idx

Unfortunately I have to say that am just as befuddled as VB and Joshua are about what COFR actually does despite my viewing of their forum.
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Joshua
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The Original Founder

Rael One,

I feel like you are trying to make COFR seem more appealing then it maybe. I do not see a clear purpose, goals, or a way or achieve any of these things. While allowing member regions to have a big say in the running of COFR, and to be able to maintain there individuality is wonderful in theory. But, in my honest opinion an orginization should have a clear intent, and a way to achieve this.

My sense is that we are looking for something more concrete right now like the proposed commonwealth idea.
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Rael One
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As I said:

One difference is who as control of the Organization.
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Dr Strange Love
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"Rabble Rouser"

Quote:
 
As I said:

One difference is who as control of the Organization.


Your once again trying to portray the Commonwealth as some sinister monolithic force that its citizens won't be able to control. Decision making in the Commonwealth will be democratic and citizens from each and every region will get their say in the decision making process.

Also the Commonwealth under the current proposal is not nearly as intrusive as you portray it. The only sovereign rights regions that join the Commonwealth sign away is their right to unilaterally wage war or make commitments to do so. There also is the principal of reciprocal citizenship but besides that there is nothing in the current proposal that interferes with the governance of member regions. There is certainly nothing in the current proposal that says member regions won't be able to schedule special events without the consent of the Commonwealth government.

If your going to argue that COFR is better than the Commonwealth, please introduce real reasons instead of using Euroskeptic esque tactics to advance your point.
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Joshua
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The Original Founder

Dr Strange Love
Oct 30 2006, 05:43 AM
Quote:
 
As I said:

One difference is who as control of the Organization.


Your once again trying to portray the Commonwealth as some sinister monolithic force that its citizens won't be able to control. Decision making in the Commonwealth will be democratic and each region will get its say in the decision making process.

I agree with DSL. The Exodus has always stood for and supported the democratic process.
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oodges
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annoyance united

at the same time, COFR already exists, already has a forum, already has devoted members, has already had work put in. i don't see this happening in TE or, to tell you the truth, that successfully anywhere else in NS. because despite the disagreements we are having with this organisation and i share them with you, this thing is succeeding. i have been offered a position and im considering letting my UN nation be a part of this, i won't represent TE of course, but i figure i can't do much damage with just having my UN nation there, especially as my current UN nation's Region is boring me....
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Dr Strange Love
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"Rabble Rouser"

Quote:
 
at the same time, COFR already exists


So did FORT.

Quote:
 
already has a forum


Well the forum for the Commonwealth has existed for about two years now and is much more active. :P


Quote:
 
already has devoted members, has already had work put in. i don't see this happening in TE or, to tell you the truth, that successfully anywhere else in NS. because despite the disagreements we are having with this organization and i share them with you, this thing is succeeding.


What about Joshua who has been proposing something along the lines of the Commonwealth for over a year? What about myself who wrote up the proposal? We are closer than ever to making this happen. COFR is also far from being the most successful alliance in NS history. Just off the top of my head I can think of the ADN, the RLA and ACCEL as examples of multi regional alliances that have been far more successful than COFR has been.

Quote:
 
have been offered a position and im considering letting my UN nation be a part of this, i won't represent TE of course, but i figure i can't do much damage with just having my UN nation there, especially as my current UN nation's Region is boring me....


Well if you believe in the COFR than best of luck to you in your dealings there.
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