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June 12th - Who are you voting for?
Topic Started: Jun 3 2014, 12:36 PM (2,408 Views)
Nickyskidoo
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Great posts TimH and Trappermatt!! notwor
Just one question Forkhorn are you one of the following: union worker, teacher, or employed by the government?? :crazy:
I don't believe you are self employed or a manage a business and see directly what it takes to operate in Ontario.
My WSIB is 10% of everything that's billed even thoe I can get way better coverage privately at a fraction of the cost WTF!
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Angus0914
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Not that I'm supporting the PC's but they are not going to cut the jobs right away. I'm with trappermatt I too was a small town municipal councilor last term and see the waste and the red tape. I think those jobs could be cut without much harm if done in a reasonable manner like having a boss over see a boss and another boss over seeing that boss you get the picture. Get rid of all the redundancy. The school board thing sounds interesting also. Do not privatize hydro or our schools and hospitals but there has to ways to stream line things especially our social programs.
Edited by Angus0914, Jun 10 2014, 09:22 AM.
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Nickyskidoo
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One more thing...
Both Wynne and McGuinty should be in jail!! If I ever pulled any of the huge money wasting stunts they have I would be out of work and possibly in jail or at the very least sued out of all my assets to recover the full amount of dollars I squandered
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Partikle
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Nickyskidoo
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Comrades in arms...

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JBen
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Forhorn with all due respect,
Public service never creates wealth, it takes it. "balance" Yes I to beleive there is some magic number that is the perfect balance between private/public.
The Liberals have exloded the size and cost of govt. Since 2003 PS has grown 39%, compared to 11% growth in private.

100,000 heads.
If you listen to the talking heads on the left scaring everyone, they will fire 100k. Patently untrue, but at the very least why is it.
1,000,000 jobs and everyone laughs at the number (yeah right, just lies)
100,000 heads and its gospel
PS even Smokey Robertson (OPSEU head) is accusing Wynne of lying and she to plans to downsize.

Lets say 50,000 are "fired" and thats what has PS up in arms.
What about 100 of thousands who have lost jobs due to failed policies?
What about 100 of thousands fleeing the province?
What about companies like Magna who have 14billion to invest in 2014....for anywhere but Ontario! They aren't the only company running from Ont, or afraid to come here thanks to the ineptitude and worse at QP...How many tens of thousands is that costing us.

Facts
The average person pays more in taxes (45%) than they do on housing and food. Me I pay way more than 45%.
The middle class is shrinking. Has been since the 60s. Do you find odd, that as the middle class has gone down, the size/cost of govt has gone up?
Back in the 60s, the average person paid around 40% in taxes, and spent around 45% on housing/food.

Hydro is going up
Nat Gas is going up
Gasolone is going up
Beef? Up 12% since last year
Pork? Up 16% since last year.

Is it any wonder the average person cant find 2 nickels to help pay for their kids post secondary, or for their own retirements? When the cost of living is epxloding and we are getting taxed to the teeth?
"Taxes are the price we pay"

On the sad state of politics in Ontario.
Bob Rae, then big bad Mike. Why did Mike cut? Because the govt before him destroyed the fiscal books, spent like mad, then tried to reign it in (sound familiar)????

Bob Rae then Mike Harris, then McWynne.
3 different govts, all with big problems.
1 common denominator.

Can we continue to stick our heads in the sand. Sure we can, its our choice and we can re-elect the Liberals.

~Baby Boomers (retiring now and lots more to come very soon) are going to hammer health care (already 50% of the budget). Will need more $$...I look in the cupboard and we are beggared.

~When things do start turning around, that means growth and that means interest rates will rise.
~Its also looking like the province is going to be downgraded again.
~Our debt is growing at about 7.7% compared to growth of less than 2%
~Our debt to revenue is around 280%
~Our debt right now is around 270b, its projected to be 330b come 2018
~

See the middle class spending more on taxes, than they do housing/food
See the middle class heading towards a cliff (people retiring with debt up to their eyeballs, not enough saved)
See the province heading towards a cliff
And so much more I might mention and I havent even mentioned
the single largest tax grab in history, and then EHealth, Orng, Gas plants, cover ups, lies, idiotic policies like the GEA that sees hydro going through the roof, people and businesses fleeing the province and more.

We "gripe" about bad politcitians, moan about abuses, the lack of accountability.
And yet, when we have a chance to hold one accountable...we vote for them.
if we want better from our politicians, perhaps we dont vote for them when they do 1/4 of the things this admin has done, gotten away with, and may get away with again.

Maybe when we, start holding them accountable, they will be too afraid to lie, waste, and worse.

Edited by JBen, Jun 10 2014, 02:51 PM.
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Nickyskidoo
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Wow thanks JBen!! great post!!
Still in shock we didn't get ride of them last election...
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Well, whoever stole the PC election signs off mine and my neighbours lawns today are sure making it harder for me to like liberals. :censor: Not cool
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Nickyskidoo
Jun 10 2014, 09:10 AM
Great posts TimH and Trappermatt!! notwor
Just one question Forkhorn are you one of the following: union worker, teacher, or employed by the government?? :crazy:
I don't believe you are self employed or a manage a business and see directly what it takes to operate in Ontario.
My WSIB is 10% of everything that's billed even thoe I can get way better coverage privately at a fraction of the cost WTF!
Not sure what you read... I said abolishes unions and WISB and lower the trad. work force wages and that would bring back industries. Go grab a dictionary and look it up. I am not a teacher or union worker. I work as Mgt. in private industry.
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Shane
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The system will crumble. Ontario is leading the way
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If you believe a change in political parties is going to solve Ont. economic issues all the power to you. Ontario has been a dyeing province for along time. There are provincial and global issues that have caused this. We don't have the black gold like other provinces so we need other solutions. We need new industries which create multiple spin off jobs(say developing the north). Harping on the past and blaming doesn't get the province anywhere. Ontario is living off a false economy. I am well aware of this and realize that it will catch up eventually. But there is a time to do so. IMOP this isn't time and we are going about it the wrong way. All the Party's are yet again focusing on hot button topics and not really providing rational solutions.

The cost of living has gone up globally and it isn't just an Ontario thing. To blame a single politically party for what has happened in global economics doesn't jive with me. Sure lots of wasted money and scandal by the Liberals... But for one minute do you think another party would have done better. Maybe they would have had half the scandal and wasted half the money. I guess that would be expectable. We have just poked our heads out of a North American recession and much of the world is still in it. Just not a good time IMOP.

My reasons are simple. I live in NWO and have a young family. My kids education is very important to me. I don't want my kids to have a sub par educations. My wife is a teacher and the majority of my family works in health care sector. I work in the forestry industry. I have worked in one industry towns and have seen them completely crash. I have moved and rebuilt in a different area of NWO. Our local MP's have done good for our area in my eyes. Some areas have benefited from there actions. One of the PC candidates in our area isn't even from our area. He is from the South. So forgive me if I don't think he would have our area in his interest. I just don't feel that a PC vote will help my family our my area.

I work with and know people in the PS and I see that the cuts that have been done in the last few years have only affected the younger workers. I haven't heard of any 'sunshiners' getting a pink slip. I have read post here about people bashing the MNR and the lack of service. I also have complained. Cutting more dollars isn't going to fix this. There was a thread on here awhile back bitching about the out sourcing of the Outdoors cards. At the time people seemed pretty upset about privatization. Be careful what you wish for. We need to explore new industries. That's what will bring our economy back. Privatization will still only be a temporary fix without having industrial type jobs.


Edited by forkhorn, Jun 10 2014, 08:22 PM.
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Shane
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Nwo is finished where I am , the small towns keep getting smaller . The young people need jobs and end up leaving . The business's that do hire just want a bunch of people to work part time so they don't have to pay benefits . No way a young person can make a go of it part time on minimum wage .

Just recently the municipality here ( road maintainance etc) wanted applications for a part time worker. Now around here that's a pretty good paying job that could lead to full time eventually , the guy who got the job was a retired rail roader ? In rainy river not many teens get jobs , grocery clerks are all woman over 55 ? It's not what you know it's who you know .
I just can't see what party you vote for will change this trend in small towns.

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I always said never talk about Politics or Religion.. Myself working for the Federal Gov.. I have no clue who to vote for.. 1 Million jobs Ya what ever.. The liberals .. Hmm usually the prefered choice for The Gov workers.. Hydro up near 50% FML...the NDP shit we are still recovering from Bob Ray!!!So!!! very confuesed here.. What are the above parties stand on Immigration.. Whoa here is a hot debate.. How about we quit brining in all this immigrants that having nothing to add to the province other than Higher unemployment.. There is stereo typing for a reason.. I am sick of every news headline involves a samolian or Seihk or Pakistani or east indian.. Sick of it so maybe someone can tell me who the hell can fix this mess they have my vote..
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Hold on a sec there coptor..I agree with everything you said except the immigrant statement. They do so add something...tyey add more votes for the liberal... lol))) :lol!!!:
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lol))) That's fun lol)))
And Good Post JBen. I agree.
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JBen
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Coptor. I disagree on Politics, to me, its important to discuss it. Nothing says you have to agree to discuss, you can do so and remain civil, without flying off the deep end per se. Respect opposing viewpoints. If someone want to vote liberal, after looking at things from 360 different angles, then vote liberal. I won't say those is PS shouldn't have "concerns". Ive been laid off , with a young family and bills to pay.........

One of, certainly not the only, but of our larger problems is voter apathy. It's causing problems. It's apathy that enables morally, or fiscally bankrupt parties to remain in power. Its apathy, that allows Unions to influence things, far more their actual worth/weight, it's apathy that allows voters to be swayed by rhetoric in the media, lies by politicians. If we don't talk about issues, than less than 40% of the electorate can be bothered to get up off the couch.

Forkhorn, one of the key things I tried to highlight is if we don't hold them accountable who will? When or why would they (all politicians) ever change? They know, less than 40% of the people care enough to vote. They know, there are diehards who will vote L, or C, or N or with the Union no matter what, short of killing babies, they won't sway. So the number of votes they are fighting for, is actually really small, maybe 10-15% of the vote.

Economics, financing etc.
Its my business. We can argue theory about this/that. Has spending your way out of debt ever worked? The timing of it? We are on a clock, there are clouds on the horizon (Boomers/healthcare, Johnny Q not having enough saved, Interest rates climbing) and stuff on our plates right now and we are up to our eyeballs in debt. Is this the time to tax employers and people even more vis a vie ORPP? Keep spending when we are "broke" and someone will have to pay the piper?

When the cost of living is going through the roof, (some thanks to their failed policies). When taxes are going up? When companies are folding thanks to soaring hydro, trades college, ....and we want to tax them more? Brilliant plan that. Ditto for Johnny Q, Johnny Q already spends more on taxes, than anything else. Already can't find 2 nickels to pay down a little debt, save for their kids or themselves. That "argument" cuts both ways :)

There's no other way to say this part. Govt has grown, and grown quite expensive, since the 1960s. Who pays the price? The middle class. Its grown, relative to private, substantially since 2003. Why did Harris have to cut (because before him came Bob Rae, who like the liberals have, went nuts). Why are companies are avoiding Ontario like the plague? Because of their management, because of their waste, because the cost to do business here is exploding. Because rating's agencies like Standard and Poors, Moody's are saying Ontario is a risky place to invest in. And for the record Moodys is not impressed with the budget and have come out publicly and said its "a credit negative"..Translation, we are likely going to get downgraded again. They normally don't comment during elections..........Means the cost to borrow goes up (330b in debt) and worse, it sends a very very bad signal to business and CEOs.

We blame Harris for the cuts, maybe the bullseyes belongs on those who spent like mad, created the mess.

Look at the OPP.
They have received 14% pay hikes since and including 2011. 5% then, 8.5% now.
Can you name many people in private that have gotten 14% in 4 years? When those that are getting raises (not all are) , are seeing 1.5% to 2% if they are lucky enough to have jobs? I myself have gotten 3 raises since 2009. 1.5% 1.5% and 1.75%. I am lucky, Im not the "average". Yeah, I've tightened my belt, I can't imagine what life is like for the average family these days.

The left and Unions are doing a great job, scaring people. Thats it, no more, no less. We lose tens of thousands of jobs in private every year....Last I looked we are still breathing.
A lot of it will be attrition (see Boomers), a lot privatization (even Wynne plans to privatize) and some will be job losses. OPSEU is accusing Ms Wynne of lying, is accusing her of hiding 1.2billion in cuts in the fine print. According to Smokey, with an average salary of $40,000 for OPSEU members, that means Ms Wynne plans to fire 30,000.
Attrition 10,000
Privatization. Lets say we can find 20,000 (LCBO, OPG, and others)
Fired: 30,0000

Theres 60,000 they "both" are looking at.

Only real difference being, the cuts to services (program spending) and the cuts to overhead ( PS) they Libs have done and plan to do, is so they can find money to spend. They have run deficits every year, and plan to run more. The cons plan to save money, to pay down the deficit.

tick tock, tick tock

At the end of the day, if we don't hold them accountable........




Edited by JBen, Jun 11 2014, 05:55 AM.
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G SKINNER
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Sam Menard
Jun 4 2014, 06:19 PM
I thank God that I live in a free country where we enjoy so many liberties... including the right to vote. However, I'm disillusioned with our politicians as they always find a way let you down. I still want to exercise my right to vote but will be spoiling my ballet. I wish that one of the choices was "non of the above"!

Sam
There is a vote for "NON OF THE ABOVE " ....when you go to vote , register ,when you are handed your ballot , hand it back and tell them you are making a vote of PROTEST , your vote is actually counted and I hope it sends a message to these Politicians.
Glen :boxing:
GOOD LUCK AND PLAY SAFE !
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Union member here and I'm sick of my union telling me how to vote!!! I WILL vote for Hudak because I just can't stand the Libtards! Don't care if it hurts my job as I will find another!


I'm seriously planning a move to southern Alberta or Saskatchewan so if Libs stay in power it might just seal the deal.
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JBen
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G that is better than "not voting", or spoiling a ballot as it is counted. It doesn't keep them honest though.
Just as the trend with respect to size/cost of govt expanding and middle class shrinking is clear.

Over the decades, as fewer and fewer and fewer care/vote, so to have the abuses, the lies, the whatever gone up. In 2011 only 36% of the electorate voted.
I mean, Im going to be 50 in 2 months, Ive been eligible to vote since 82 and I have voted in all.

In our lives, can we re-call a period where the abuses have been so many, or on the same scale? We could write pages of all the various under this admin alone.
Rob Ford...
Londons Mayor?
Montreal?
Apathy is the devil
:)

Unions.
To me I make a very clear distinction between Union members, and Unions, who today serve few but themselves in their quest for power. Three successive govt's of different ideologies have had big problems.....1 common denominator.

Answers?
Wish I knew but Chinese Walls would be a good place to start.



Edited by JBen, Jun 11 2014, 08:05 AM.
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Nickyskidoo
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Do your self a favor and search through this a little... I cant believe I used to donate to the YMCA, why are there 15 VP making 130K-187K in the GTA alone???
Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Chief Executive Officer $222,441.68
Ontario Telemedicine Network / Réseau Télémédecine Ontario, Chief Executive Officer $475,406.12
What the hell is Telemedicine??? FML
I know some people on this list and am shocked at their wages because I know what they do... I so should have gone PS
http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publications/salarydisclosure/pssd/
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JBen
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Sunshine list :)
IMO dont pay attention to the specific number ( Do I care much if X person makes Y, or get Z in comp (salary and benefits). No, not really.
Then to, $100,000 today is not the same $100,000 10 or 15 years ago.

What I look at, is how large it has grown in a short period of time. Its "exploded". At a time when "private" has been treading water.

File this under food for thought.
Ms Wynne wants to tax the rich for her mistakes. She also wants to tax companies 2% and employees 2%. Ms Wynne defines "rich" as 150,000 these days. Sounds like she is saying theres a lot of PS that is rich
;)

Anywho. 100k isnt what it used to be, there are good arguements that magical line should be raised. What I look at isnt the 100k or 175k or 225k the individual people make. What I look at, is how large its grown, relative to the real people the working stiffs of Ontario, the middle class.
Quote:
 
Overall, the list — which includes doctors, nurses, teachers, police and firefighters in addition to civil servants — increased about 11 per cent last year to 97,796 names. That's an 82 per cent increase from 2008, when there were 53,774 names on the list.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/sunshine-list-2014-ontario-s-top-public-earners-list-released-1.2590152

So, since 2008 when the proverbial hit the fan, when real people were losing their jobs, seeing their wages clawed back...I'll say it, in 2009 my salary was clawed back almost 50%...Ive since gotten 3 raises and I work for those evil greedy finance types :). The sunshine list has grown by82%, in 2013 it grew by 11%. I wonder if the average people of Ontario saw those kinds of increases.

So if Mike Harris is "re-born", when you look at that kind of stuff....who really is to blame?

Personally I doubt Hudak would be the devil incarnate.
1) Even with a majority, I think he knows and remembers what happened to Mike Harris. I assume Hudak and the cons want to survive more than a couple years

2) With a minority, can someone explain how he will get support from either the NDP or LIBs if he is the devil incarnate, Paul Bunyon on steriods and is swinging large axes indiscriminately?







Edited by JBen, Jun 11 2014, 08:50 AM.
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Nickyskidoo
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I just look at the list and think in a small business way... what it would cost to run a company with the wages at that level? the company would have to bring in a shit load of money.... witch it doesn't they are the government. There are 35 people working at the ROM and who knows how many more under the 100k mark, what does the museum take in for tickets and retail stuff compared to what the costs are??? employee deductions, WSIB, heat, hydro, maintenance, taxes... what comes out of my pocket for a place I went once as a kid?? 350 at WSIB, I have given well over 150k into it and never had a claim. Now new liberal rules make even the sole proprietor- president have WSIB even though I can have way better private coverage at a fraction of the cost. Page after page of organizations I didn't know even existed.
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JBen
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Ask Trappermatt, what the 8.5% OPP raise is forcing him to do. Raise land taxes by 8%-9%. Is it any wonder the average person be they private or public cant find 2 nickels? Hydro up 40%, Nat Gas up 40%, more.........

By the same token, back when Harris was trying to clean up Raes mess (3 credit downgrades and more) "brain drain" as it was called back then was real. A lot of Drs/Nurses fled for greener pastures. Kind a like the way a lot of people are fleeing Ont for greener pastures today. How many plants in the last 6 months have mothballed and moved to the US (not china?). Lots, some as recently as just a few weeks ago.

If your "small business" I really feel for you.
Your cost to operate are exploding, be it Hydro, be it insurance, be it keeping your trucks on the road, be it WSIB, be it minumum wage, be it increased land taxes, be it now also having to skim another 2% off your bottom line (Ont Pension plan), be it......

Ms Wynne might not be handing out the pink slips, but she might as well be.

As for her "new innovative industries" and corporate welfare to encourage (con CEOs who arent foolish people).
Green Energy/Samsung...Um where are the jobs?
MaRs? they cant lease the space...Um....does that not suggest
So many more. their track record isnt exactly a glowing endorsement of their ability to attract new industry.

Do I care what X makes? Not really, no more than I care if a CEO get paid 1million per year, or my neighbor makes 60k per year.

At the end of the day. We want and need PS, but the dog (private) wags the tail. One doesnt have to think hard about a place where everyone was PS. Who would make the widgets, that results in economic growth, that puts money in everyones pockets, that funds government (and where money gets "sucked" or "taken" out of the economy), which some in turn goes to PS as salaries and benefits, and they spend on widgets to.

Theres a magic sweet spot somewhere, the right balance. Who can say what that is?
I can say in the past 11years its been a one way street. At the best of times during economic downturns PS largely is "recession proof". We cant really go out and downsize LEO, EMS, Teachers, more.....Can we? We certainly shouldnt be hiring scads more, or throwing money at them buying "labor peace".

The Sunshine has grown by 82% while a lot of other people have started eating craft dinner.
The size/cost of govt has grown (according to the fraser institute) 39% compared to 11% private since 2003
The middle class is indeed shrinking, has been since the 1960s. Is it coicidence that as "govt" has exploded, the middle class has shrunk?

Im in banking/finance. am a liscenced FA though thats not what I do, havent done for 25years. When Ms Wynne said during the debate "people cant save for their retirments"..Thats true, we are heading for a stone wall, when people start relying more and more on social assistance, start losing homes, have to work until they go to the grave, because they dont have enough saved, dont have Pensions.

But why?
See above.

We (Ontario) are getting older (average age is 44 now, few years ago it was 40). Population growth, while its still up, the trend is down. means fewer people at the botttom of the pyramid paying for everything.

There are dark clouds on the Horizon

To each his own, voting for someone or something, no matter what is better than not voting. Apathy is the devil. Is how and why we end up in these predicaments where we have to pick our poisons.


Edited by JBen, Jun 11 2014, 10:52 AM.
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The economy isn't as fragile as the Liberals would have you believe. It is true that a number of very visible companies have been moving away from ON ( think GM) but overall our manufacturing sector is fairly strong. What will hurt us is if the US dollar plummets, same as always. Unfortunately that is going to happen soon, and there isn't much we can do about it.
The Liberals have been pouring money in to the public sector unions, and in return those unions are running ads attacking the PC, since they're the most viable threat to the red party.
Forkhorn what you're suggesting is that the Province use public jobs as a form of welfare. That's not ok. If there is nothing to make money on in Nipigon, then maybe the solution is to leave. I know nobody wants to hear it, but why should the gov't create jobs in a town where there is no work, just so that people can stay there? Not only is the principle wrong, but the fact is that there isn't any money available to do that with!!
Ontario is running a defecit, a huge defecit, that the liberals will continue to increase. The solution is cuts. You can't keep buying stuff with IOUs. The Liberal party of Ontario has shown a complete lack of fiscal responsability, arrogantly wasting tax dollars to the extent of criminal negligence and I don't want to see them have an opportunity to continue the waste.
Thanks to JBen and Trappermatt for the excellent posts. I need to gargle some vinegar to get the taste out of my mouth from saying "Liberal" too many times.
Edited by Tim H, Jun 11 2014, 11:09 AM.
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Tim H
Jun 11 2014, 11:03 AM
The economy isn't as fragile as the Liberals would have you believe. It is true that a number of very visible companies have been moving away from ON ( think GM) but overall our manufacturing sector is fairly strong. What will hurt us is if the US dollar plummets, same as always. Unfortunately that is going to happen soon, and there isn't much we can do about it.
The Liberals have been pouring money in to the public sector unions, and in return those unions are running ads attacking the PC, since they're the most viable threat to the red party.
Forkhorn what you're suggesting is that the Province use public jobs as a form of welfare. That's not ok. If there is nothing to make money on in Nipigon, then maybe the solution is to leave. I know nobody wants to hear it, but why should the gov't create jobs in a town where there is no work, just so that people can stay there? Not only is the principle wrong, but the fact is that there isn't any money available to do that with!!
Ontario is running a defecit, a huge defecit, that the liberals will continue to increase. The solution is cuts. You can't keep buying stuff with IOUs. The Liberal party of Ontario has shown a complete lack of fiscal responsability, arrogantly wasting tax dollars to the extent of criminal negligence and I don't want to see them have an opportunity to continue the waste.
Thanks to JBen and Trappermatt for the excellent posts. I need to gargle some vinegar to get the taste out of my mouth from saying "Liberal" too many times.
Never said anything about PS being used as welfare. It sounds like a lot of you feel this way. But I value all the biologists, foresters, teachers, nurses and everyone else out there working in PS. To think for one minute that these people don't have an important role is just mind boggling. No doubt there are jobs and programs that need house cleaning, but most play an important role. We complain all the time about the miss mgt of moose and deer but we will cut the throats of the bio's who study them. We bitch about lack of hunting and fishing ops and access but yet we will cut funding. Sorry to say this but one day we will be handing over ONTARIO's mgt of fish and wildlife to other interest groups such as first nations. We as a province don't value it when it comes down to it... it cost tax dollars. Might as well let someone else do it if we will only do it half throttle like we have.
And to answer your question.... I say yes. Sometimes you got to float the boat
Edited by forkhorn, Jun 11 2014, 07:39 PM.
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Nickyskidoo
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Forkhorn,
So just to be clear on your Liberal stance, its OK for our government to squander Billions and Billions of dollars.
Lets keep them in office and maybe just maybe she wont F--k us again... (she knew what she was doing when she signed the papers to cancel the plants and win those 2 ridings)

I just keep thinking what all that money used properly could have done...
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Renegade
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Nickyskidoo
Jun 12 2014, 08:39 AM
Forkhorn,
So just to be clear on your Liberal stance, its OK for our government to squander Billions and Billions of dollars.
Lets keep them in office and maybe just maybe she wont F--k us again... (she knew what she was doing when she signed the papers to cancel the plants and win those 2 ridings)

I just keep thinking what all that money used properly could have done...
Relax people. Things are not as black and white as they might seem to appear, voting liberal or NDP certainly doesn't mean someone thinks it is OK to waste money but honestly, what government doesn't waste a lot of money? I really don't care all that much who get's elected. As mentioned, in my riding my MP has been quite good at defending our interests and he will get my vote for that.
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Nickyskidoo
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Ok Rene, I get it, but I'm stuck in Mississauga Brampton South, (I have to stay where there is work) all I get to choose from is mostly "New Canadians" Amarjeet Gill -PC, Amrit Mangat-Lib, and Kevin Trokae - NDP lol, Don't know anything about their platforms, Eve Adams-PC did lots when she was around but she bailed to go Federal.

This is what Mrs. Amrit Mangat "Liberal" cares about locally: This past Sunday I had the opportunity to attend the annual Khalsa Day parade along with our Premier, the Honourable Kathleen Wynne, and other colleagues. The parade was organized by the Ontario Sikhs and Gurudwara Council. The Khalsa Day parade celebrates the birth of Khalsa in 1699. It raises awareness about the Sikh philosophy, principles, values and heritage. Khalsa personifies [Remarks in Punjabi]—negation of casteism; [Remarks in Punjabi]—protection of the persecuted; [Remarks in Punjabi]—tolerance; justice for all; and an inclusive society.

The annual Khalsa Day is a day to celebrate these values and to offer prayers. It is a day for reflection and it is also a day for spiritual renewal. On this day, Sikhs around the world renew their belief that only tolerance, justice, equality, fairness and respect for difference can move us forward to the ultimate human goal: peace and prosperity for all.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Ontario Sikhs and Gurudwara Council for organizing this wonderful event.

All I can do is look at the big picture and all I want is change! The only way is to prove a point that scandal and waist is not acceptable!!!
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If scandal and waste is not acceptable than most governments derserve the heave. I look at the big picture as well and I too would like to see change. If scandal and waste is not acceptable you don't support Harper I would assume.
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Cant say Im a huge fan of Harper, the history books on him likely wont be written for a very long time. Can say, while he has his faults and blemishes, the good ship Cda isnt sinking financially. Quite the opposite, many countries envy his guidance etc. We cant overlook where he's wanting, we cant deny we are no longer that country eveyrone makes fun of. 20, 30 years from now, who knows most of Canada may thank him. I think the post said it best about him a few months ago when he got the EU trade deal done where literally, every other party, leader has tried and failed, he got done, what no one has.
On the big ticket items, Harper has been right, more than he's wrong. The history books and the benefit of hindsight, wont be written for a long, long time I suspect.

This is about Ontario.
Re PS.
Maybe if Ms Wynne and her party hadnt flushed so much money down the drain, this rock and hard place we are in, where we have to decide whose rights are more important. The PS person getting "laid off", or the guy in private getting laid off (along with the hundreds of thousands of others).

The cupboards wouldnt be bare, various cost wouldnt be exploding, and we'd have the money, it wouldnt even be a hard choice thered be no reason to make it a choice. Unfortunately we cant go back and get the billions back, undo bad decisions like the GEA and more.

Its no-ones fault really but the Liberals.

The warnings were there back in 2007. If we go back to the 2006 when the US sub prime crashed, the warning were there if people had paid heed.
The crap really hit the fan in 08.Despite more warnings, depsite literally evyerone being warned...the world has changed, live within your means...
Few listened. They threw money around like there was no tomorow

2011 they sold everyone on things were ok, despite warnings. People didnt pay attention. After they won their election (and also flushed another 1.1b down the drain) they released the Drummond report that kicked the lid off the foul smelling garbage can. They still didnt listen, nor did many people, or not enough anyways.

Today, they can longer pull the wool over people eyes, can no longer sweep it under the rug and people are finally listening.

Moody's has chimed in on their budget, thats extremely rare during an election. What they had to say, is not favorable.
Its your choice.

I might want something really badly, I might even "need" it. If I dont have the money... or if Ive blown the money, should I be asking others to pay for it (private)??? or pay for their mistakes?

Re the MNR Forkhorn.
Since 1992 govt spending has increased somewhere around 100%, the MNR has seen its budget slashed 20%. I dont like that at all. But people have demanded govt spend spend and spend, pay for this, pay for that. We want oodles of teachers, and oodles of this, heck apparently we even want to tax businesses another 2%, and skim another 2% of everyones paycheck so we can have a pension.

Not sure about some people, but me? Yeah I make good money. Ive seen my wages go down, I havent been getting raises. Im seeing my cost of living go through the roof. Im single (divorced) with bills to pay, mouths to feed. You want me to pay more?

7.5% Unemployment is where we stand today. Thats not everywhere, someplaces like rural Ont its far worse, some places like TO its better.
What that number doesn't tell you, is how many people (you know, those people that work, pay taxes) have lost good jobs and have had to take lower paying jobs. What that number doesn't tell you, is how many people are seasonal. Or have given up looking for work, they to arent reflected in that number.

300b in debt.

We are in this bad place, for a few reasons. Having to pick our poison. We shouldnt be in this position. Whose rights are more important? Is there an answer? Can say and will say Johnny Q has been taking it up the backside since 2008. Lets cut them a break for a change. Maybe if people had listened way back, maybe if they had paid some attention to the econom before now.

Maybe if they hadnt thrown 75million at wine sippers in Niagaraon the Lake just a few months ago, while places like Leamington , Penatanguishne, more that have seen platsn mothbaled get 200k or nothing..
Edited by JBen, Jun 12 2014, 11:26 AM.
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Shane
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For me it's pretty easy to decide what I need to do , stay in Ontario where it cost me about 1,200 a month to keep my house going for heat , hydro and mortgage . No jobs here at all unless I want to work for minimum wage for the summer and then get the lowest unemployment benefits for the winter . Where nothing at all looks promising or going to get better when it comes to hunting .

Or move to Manitoba where I can make 10,000 a month year round and rent a place for 600 a month everything included and the hunting is great . It's a no brainer .
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JBen
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Forkhorn, I want to try and clarify something, I fear its not coming across well.

I dont have it out for PS people. Their unions, thats a different topic albeit related. No-one likes cuts.

Gov't never creates wealth, never grow economies, never creates jobs. Some might argue they do, lets cut to the chase. Where does the money come from? Private. Even Hudak is blowing smoke when he claims he will create 1million jobs. No what he really should be saying and he has in ways, is that he plans to foster an evniroment, where private can flourish.

True, conventional wisdom is that during downturns govt spends, to stimulate (note, not create, stimulate) the economy. Without splitting hairs, by and large the Libs have been stimulating public for years, many. Where and how that money gets spent is important. Their record is brutal. We have been downgraded once, placed on watch, and if Moodys words a couple weeks ago are any indication, if the libs win...well get downgraded again. Some might say "no big deal" whats a little extra cost to borrow...well when your 300b in debt and thats 280% greater than your revenue (120b)....but, more troubling is the signal that sends to businesses, CEOs.....who/what do we need the most? Oh yeah, them...We need companies to come here, yet.......CEOs dont like risk.

The "warnings" have been there for a long time. And for a long time, the Liberals (and people) have ignored those warnings, have procrastinated doing what they should have started doing back around 2009/2010. To Daltons credit because he could no longer sweep everything under the rug said he was going to try (big fight with teachers over sick days)..That lasted as long as it took them, rather Ms Wynne to don the crown.

We have been putting off the neccessary reductions for years. How long shall we keep doing that because no one likes cuts? What Hudak is saying, is nothing so many havent been saying for a long time. Problem being that doesnt win elections.

Even Dwight Duncan, now that he is safely out of the party, is being "honest" and saying deep cuts are needed.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/05/09/even-an-ex-liberal-finance-minister-warned-wynne-that-deep-spending-cuts-are-needed-to-balance-ontarios-budget/

You know what they say about putting off until tomorrow what should be done today. We should have started back around 2009/10.
Edited by JBen, Jun 12 2014, 12:20 PM.
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Nickyskidoo
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Jun 12 2014, 10:19 AM
If scandal and waste is not acceptable than most governments derserve the heave. I look at the big picture as well and I too would like to see change. If scandal and waste is not acceptable you don't support Harper I would assume.
This is provincial not federal, lets not get started on the Federal Liberal scandals Wow
We should start a new post in point form scandal - scandal party by party fed and provincial that would be interesting...
I think I would be ok with the blue party's history comparatively speaking...
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I understand most people's points of views and I agree with what your saying JBen. But at this point in my life I cannot do something extremely radical. Like generations past I am taking the safe way out. I realize one day we will have pay the piper. I just feel there's a better way to go about it. Hence the negativity towards PC. Lets just hope however it turns out its for the best :cheers:
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Nickyskidoo
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WOW didn't see that one coming, buckle up people we and going for a dive and opening our wallets. Giddy Up!
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Liberal majority. Of course both Thunder Bay ridings see their liberal MP's returning. No worries about another election for awhile and I would guess the budget will get passed now. Hopefully the PC's find a leader that will be more appealling to center right voters. Next up, heave Steve.
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Well obviously Ontario chose welfare and corruption over pulling up the bootstraps and going to work. What an embarrassing day for the province.

Luckily for me I have a good job, and it will not leave the province.

I remember years ago , we used to see people moving to Ontario to work. That went on for years. Now people are leaving Ontario to find work. Ontario has a wealth of natural resources but we do not make good use of them. Why? Simple, the liberal party is a party of Toronto, not Ontario. They do not care about rural Ontario, never have and the never will.

Somehow I doubt the equalization payments will be downloaded to the middle and lower income folks. It will line liberal pockets.
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Shane
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Toronto streets will be paved in gold soon
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JBen
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Thought Id come back to this.
Imo Ontario dropped the ball. We have a "civic duty" (google that). With our rights/freedoms come responsibilities to society. This election wasn't about whose plan would see us better off going forward. It was about their record. Sometime you just have to do the right thing. People that voted L, turned their cheeks.

Why do we end up with lying politicians, scandals waste and worse?
1) because they can
2) we let them.

Its on us, no-one but us, to keep them honest, hold them accountable.

For those that are down about a tax/spend govt remaining in power? Read this and cheer up. I tried to touch on it, with respect to economic/fiscal policies and who was right Hudak or Wynne. The final word is going to be Moodys, and they have already weighed in a couple weeks ago. "Credit Negative"…We are on watch, my money says we get downgraded very soon.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/06/12/matt-gurney-cheer-up-tories-wynne-will-impose-austerity-for-you-she-has-no-choice/
Edited by JBen, Jun 15 2014, 08:24 AM.
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