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| Am I targeted? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 31 2008, 08:20 PM (516 Views) | |
| Shane | Oct 31 2008, 08:20 PM Post #1 |
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Team Ontario Trophy Bucks
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Whats your take on this. Season starts tomorrow morning and I had 3 of my hunters with me tonite sitting at the end of a dead end road just watching deer. There was probably between 40 and 50 deer out feeding and the guys were just glassing them and watching to see if any good bucks come out befor dark. The four of us were all sitting in the truck talking about deer. I heard something behind us and was surprised to see a MNR truck pulling in behind us. I recognized him and said hows it going. We did the small talk thing and then it was business at hand.( First befor I go on in this location where we were sitiing in the truck , it cannot be seen from the main road. You have to actually drive down a dead end road that is a mile long. Then you have to drive another quarter mile to where I was parked as you would not see me otherwise. ) Ok then the questions started, my hunters were asked 1- where are yous from? 2- have yous ever been here befor? 3- are yous trophy hunting? then I was asked 1- are these stands yours on the edges of these fields ( answer- is no they are my neighbors who own the land) 2- do you have stands here? ( answer- yes I have a couple stands in the bush north of that field) 3- who owns that property? ( answer- I do ) Then we were asked if we had any firearms in the vehicle, I said no and we got out so he could see. I dont have a problem with being asked these questions but this particular warden used to live here. He knows who owns those fields so he knows whos stands that are on the field edges , he knows I hunt the bush north of the one field and he knows that I own that 160 acres. He asked me years ago if I owned it. He also searched my freezer years ago " found nothing illegal" he followed me around last year into town one night, he put on the flashing red lights on me one night and stopped me 1/2 mile from town taking a hunter back to his room. He asked me what I was doing, I told him I was taking a hunter back to his motel room, I then asked him what he was doing and he told me he was getting paid to do what he was doing , I told him so was I. Every year I get pulled over to look at my guide licence , then the second week I get pulled over again to look at my guide licence? There starting early on me this year , even befor season has started. I think this is a bit overkill on there part |
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ONbuckhunter
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Oct 31 2008, 08:27 PM Post #2 |
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Havelock
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Im a graduate of the Natural resources law program, and Im glad to say I went to the agricultural inspection side of things. I enjoy hunting and fishing too much to be chasing legal hunters and outfitters. I can almost gaurentee your being followed. There is so much bigger illegal crap going on but most are focused on driving good hunters insane until they make a mistake. Im don't my rant now.
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| I don't always chase tail, but when I do; its whitetail. Stay camo my friends. | |
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| shedherder | Oct 31 2008, 08:31 PM Post #3 |
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Advanced Hunter
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In a way it's nice to be checked before season starts than while your trying to hunt. This year we seen more then usual MNR and OPP. I was checked out for the first time in 5 years. I would hate to travel all that way sneak in to a great spot only to have my hunt disrupted by the MNR. They are doing there job but if they continually bother you it is harassment. |
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| Shane | Oct 31 2008, 08:32 PM Post #4 |
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Team Ontario Trophy Bucks
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Oh forsure I am , a guide licence is only $7.50 why would I not get one in an area where there is a guide requirement? They can look on there computer and see who bought one from this area. Why look at mine 2 weeks in a row? When he pulled me over last year , red lights and all I was a half a mile from town " heading into town" . I am real tired of this and enough is enough. |
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LoneWolf
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Oct 31 2008, 08:33 PM Post #5 |
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Rebel Soul
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Sounds like the power tripping kind. |
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| Shane | Oct 31 2008, 08:35 PM Post #6 |
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Team Ontario Trophy Bucks
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Last year he asked me , how many hunters you have this week , then he asked how many you got next week, then he asked who all is guideing for you , then he asked where do you hang your deer that your hunters get. I told him in my garage. He then said he may just come and look some day , I said come anytime. |
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Terrym
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Oct 31 2008, 08:44 PM Post #7 |
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Bradford Ont
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Of course you are being targeted. You are the local outfitter and your clients take nice deer so in their minds's you must be poaching them. Sad to say but I guarantee ya that guy is out to get you. He is waiting to charge you or one of your clients on the smallest technicality he can drum up. Kep your nose clean and the next time casually ask him how to spell his name properly and write it down in front of him.
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| Shane | Oct 31 2008, 08:50 PM Post #8 |
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Team Ontario Trophy Bucks
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I know his name , I used to live a mile away from him. The house I was renting at the time was right close to the road. At that time I had 9 headmounts on the livingroom wall plus some horns on plaques. These could be seen through the picture window when you drove by. One day in the summer this guy puleed into the yard and asked if he could look at my horns since he could see them when he drove by. I welcomed him in and we talked about where i got that one and where did that one come from. Then he started counting them and asked how old I was. He was trying to figure out how many bucks I had shot since I was 16. He wasnt even on duty that day , he was wearing shorts and had his kids with. |
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spent
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Oct 31 2008, 08:54 PM Post #9 |
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Don't forget the badge number and the time that you were stopped and questioned and don't tell him anything that you are going to write down. He can only have so many questions to ask and take time to check your licences.... |
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billert
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Oct 31 2008, 09:10 PM Post #10 |
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Good advice. Start keeping a record and maybe even go backwards with what you recall and go above him. He's up to no good. I can tolerate the good guys who really care about hunting, but he's on a power trip. I bet he reads the board too. |
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dobber
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Oct 31 2008, 09:18 PM Post #11 |
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Team Ontario Trophy Bucks
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wonder what the rule is on video taping his actions each time he stops you |
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condescending twat Someone who looks down on other people and is beyond arrogant | |
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buckstop
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Oct 31 2008, 09:22 PM Post #12 |
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buckstop northern wisconsin
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I agree with Terry. When you are checked that many times he's got something against you. The sad thing about taking large trophy bucks is there is always someone who is jealous and starts rumors,etc.... Maybe this warden received a call from one of these jerks. You can do things by the book all your life and all it takes is one idiot to taint your reputation and cause suspision. Hopefully this guy will get sick of checking you and your clients and finding nothing illegal. Hope he lays off!!!!!! |
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| Shane | Oct 31 2008, 09:24 PM Post #13 |
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Team Ontario Trophy Bucks
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video tape him? i could make a damn mini - series |
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| Renegade | Oct 31 2008, 09:56 PM Post #14 |
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Atikokan, Ontario
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Not a good situation. The harassment part should be brought to the attention of the MNR. Surely harassing outfitters is not productive. I can see occassional checks but why is this same warden giving Shane the gears all the time. I'd be getting close to a lawsuit. |
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ONbuckhunter
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Oct 31 2008, 10:18 PM Post #15 |
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Havelock
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If i were you I'd invest in an electronic voice recorder. I use them all the time with investigations. And legally you only need one consenting party, and that consenting party is you. Once he knows you have it, he'll back off. IMHO. |
| I don't always chase tail, but when I do; its whitetail. Stay camo my friends. | |
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| Shane | Oct 31 2008, 10:23 PM Post #16 |
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Team Ontario Trophy Bucks
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well the thing is after all that I am sure my hunters think I must be some sort of outlaw. They did wonder why they were asked if they were trophy hunting, as they didnt come all the way to shoot spikes or forkhorns. |
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| Shane | Oct 31 2008, 10:40 PM Post #17 |
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Team Ontario Trophy Bucks
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thats very interesting, I could just hit record on my camcorder on the seat beside me and capture the conversation. Im not against him doing his job and asking questions but this night in particular he had to have known I was down there and tried sneaking in. We were not hideing or doing anything wrong. the windows were down when we were sitting there and I didnt hear a thing til he was about 50 yards behind me. It was such a slow idle you couldnt hear his truck. My kid can run around town with the truck with music cranked and has never got pulled over and asked questions by the OPP. Yet if I sit and watch deer thats cause to be questioned? I start in mid summer watching deer and filming them in various locations but once my hunters are here find Shane and pull him over. One year they had me blocked in at this dead end road when I was coming out after dark with two hunters. They had 3 vehicles and 6 wardens. My guide licence was checked , my hunters hunting licenses were checked and there guns were taken out of there cases and checked. Everything was fine and ok. They said we could go. My house was a half mile from this little blockade they had. Once I got home with the hunters I got thinking about it and jumped in the truck and went back to talk to them. I asked them just what this was all about, they told me that they were doing a non-resident deer hunting survey. I said I would like to see a copy of the survey when it was completed. They said I couldnt . I went back home and as I got out of the truck the 3 vehicles went by and were gone. I guess there survey was complete. |
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| Shane | Oct 31 2008, 10:53 PM Post #18 |
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Team Ontario Trophy Bucks
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I would also like to add that where I live there are very few hunters and very little hunting pressure. I can leave well befor daylight, get two hunters out in there stands and get home right at daylight. Round trip to do this can vary depending what stands I am useing but could be 8 to 20 miles. I can do that and not see another single vehicle or set of headlights in the distance. Thats just an example of how few hunters are here. Its because it is all privat land. There is a total of 740 acres of crown land where i run my hunts here. Yet 25 miles to the north of me is polluted with hunters, Lake of the Woods have many lodges and resorts and many eastern Ontario hunters are there because of the vast amount of crown land that anyone can hunt. But I am always checked , every week , every year. I also have a trail cam pic of a game warden on a four wheeler at one of my baits. ( on crown land) |
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Archer Ontario
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Oct 31 2008, 10:58 PM Post #19 |
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Archer Ontario, Kingston Ont
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I had a similar experience while moose hunting. they said they hired alot more wardens this year are they doing there job ????? well like was mentioned once is good all the time thats harassment. my experience was something i will not forget 2 Cos 2 DIFFERENT opinions it still doesnt sit well with me. i like that they are doing there job dont get me wrong just i would have done it in a different manner dont worry Shane once they realize your a stand up guy and run a ligit business the visits will become less and less there just doing there job work with them to a point. always ask for there card then date it |
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SHOOT STRAIT OR SHOOT ALOT "SMACKDOWN" www.ontariotrophybucks.ca | |
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| Shane | Oct 31 2008, 11:27 PM Post #20 |
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Team Ontario Trophy Bucks
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I am eating everything there dishing out and my plate cant hold anymore. There are major problems north of me, road hunting is a huge thing , shooting from the road, shooting on posted property, the list is a mile long. All my hunters are sitting in my stands all day , no one see's them and they dont see anyone. I lease a lot of land and have permission on a lot of land. We are not trespassing, we are not going down roads with 4 - wheelers , we are not shooting towards, from, or down a road. All my hunters have blaze orange vests and hats, they all have hunting licences, me and my guides all have guide licences. I keep in contact with all my hunters during the day by cell phones and radios. All rifles are in a case from my house right to the stand befor daylight , rifles are all cased up after sunset right back to my house. I dont allow my hunters to party hunt , once they tag a buck they are done. It is stand hunting all day period , no deer drives , no dogs , no boats and islands. I really dont know what they are trying to catch us at? |
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canucks
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Nov 1 2008, 06:21 AM Post #21 |
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Simple answer.....talk to his supervisor |
| I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian. | |
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canucks
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Nov 1 2008, 06:28 AM Post #22 |
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totally agree with this...he might be acting on other info...you may have compitition in the area wouldn't surprise me in the least if someone is calling this in. Hang in their shane. Always be professional don't loose your cool and take whats been already mentioned to you
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| I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian. | |
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spent
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Nov 1 2008, 06:49 AM Post #23 |
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Maybe you can tell your clients and ask them to make sure all their licences are in order because the wardens in the area are very stricked.....Your competition does not like you and what canucks says keep your cool. |
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CDN Hunter
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Nov 1 2008, 08:19 AM Post #24 |
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Sorry to hear what you are going thru Shane, but keep your head high, you know you are sticking to the rules and so are your clients. Sounds like you are runing a reputable business. I went through a similar situation with my father on our trapline several years back. Its easy for them to target the guys that are "easy" to get at or easy for them to find you...Like many have said, it is likely from jeoulous people surrounding you that don't like seeing you being successful that are lodging the complaints. Don't lose your cool with them, cause that is what they want... then, the OPP will start taging along with the CO and then _hit could hit the fan.... Be patient, the good guys usually win, its a nine inning game.... Good luck with the rifle season. My shotgun and slugs are ready to go for WMU 90! Take Care Cdn Hunter |
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Terrym
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Nov 1 2008, 08:23 AM Post #25 |
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Bradford Ont
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To put this in perspective: I just got back from a week long bowhunt in Pennsylvania. One afternoon I was being dropped off by my buddy ( in an Ontario plated vehicle ) and a game warden pulled up. The guy was friendly as hell, didn't even ask for my lecense since we have to wear backpatches. After chatting with the guy for a few minutes politely he looks at me and says , and I quote " well ya better get your ass in the bush and get a nice one now ". Do ya think you would get that from an Ontario guy? |
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fishnhunt
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Nov 1 2008, 08:23 AM Post #26 |
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The North shore of L. Erie
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This guy has something against you. Probably jealous! I would agree with many of the above posts. Record everytime this guy pulls you over or stops you. Then take it to his supervisor and have a chat with him. |
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| crisop | Nov 1 2008, 09:45 AM Post #27 |
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Almost know it all
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i'd ask him next tim he talks to you if he has a problem with you if he says no go and file a complaint against him for harassment |
| winter time with snow and ice means ICE FISHING | |
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spent
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Nov 1 2008, 10:41 AM Post #28 |
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Does he stop you only periodically ? or does he always show up when you are out there because if that is the case, then someone knows when you are leaving the house or they know when you are going into a specific area, and to sic him on you a phone call is made. To get paranoid of this guy is not a good thing, there are different avenues to take to prevent this warden from constant harassment.... You are abiding by the law so you need to fear nothing........ |
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corman30
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Nov 1 2008, 01:57 PM Post #29 |
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Man that does suck. I think I'd be speaking to his superior aswell, your being harrased bud. I agree with this also. Good advice. Start keeping a record and maybe even go backwards with what you recall and go above him. He's up to no good. I can tolerate the good guys who really care about hunting, but he's on a power trip. I bet he reads the board too I a |
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| Sharon | Nov 1 2008, 02:04 PM Post #30 |
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Regular
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My friend had a CO holler at him , " I know where you live!!!" after the CO lost at a dog trial my friend was judging. They are not all "nice" guys. |
| " A dog doesn't care if you're rich or poor. Give a dog your heart and he'll give you his." | |
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forkhorn
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Nov 1 2008, 03:03 PM Post #31 |
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Tax payers dollars hard at work!!
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Brooke
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Nov 1 2008, 03:39 PM Post #32 |
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Hanover, Ontario.
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I would say he is probably jealous, you do take many nice deer. Too bad he acts like that. I would bet he's jealous you guide "outsiders" to nice deer too. I sure hope his harrassment doesn't hurt your business. It could leave a bad taste in a hunter's mouth thinking they would get harassed. I would talk to a superior and tell him to come into camp and check you all out then leave you alone the rest of the hunt. |
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| tizbass | Nov 1 2008, 10:17 PM Post #33 |
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It seems to me that this is a clear case of an overzealous CO with a chip on his shoulder. My brotherinlaw (who is a trapper and hunter) has had a few run ins with CO's. He has a reputation of being very vocal on hunting and trapping issues and therefore has become a target. How he deals with it is he knows the hunting and trapping regs inside and out. He knows the answers before there finished asking the questions. he really gets "in there face" and when they realize he knows what he talking about they back off. He has even become friends with some of them afterwards. Its very possible that he is jealous of your success as a hunter and guide. Tiz |
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Taxman
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Nov 2 2008, 04:14 AM Post #34 |
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What everyone else said here Shane...you are targeted for sure. Now, I want to add that in Canada it's illegal to do a voice recording without the other person's knowledge and consent. Then, so many hours after the conversation, you have to provide a transcribed transcript of the conversation. That one's a slippery slope. Mike |
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| Rob from Sudbury | Nov 8 2008, 07:21 AM Post #35 |
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Sophmore
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Wow....the MNR are VERY active in your area it seems... too say the least. I'm all for law enforcement and keeping people honest - otherwise it would be a free for all but MAN they are all over you like white on rice!! If I was checked this often, I would feel violated as well. Either you have an enemy with one of their friends, reletives or another local competitive guide OR your the only guy hunting the area so they have no one else to check - which I highly doubt. Sounds like pretty soon they'll be sitting in your stand with you - I'd keep a log of it all in case you need to reference it in the future - All you can do is be professional because it looks like for some reason they are waiting to pounce. We hunt Manitoulin Island and there are always a lot of MNR around. I don't mind being checked even if it is every year, but from your stories, your local MNR office is making you out to be a criminal in front of your clients and thats not good for business. |
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Adrian J Hare
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Nov 9 2008, 06:35 PM Post #36 |
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Addict!!
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The MNR works for Wildlife NOT The Hunters something to keep in mind
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3:20 AM Jul 11