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Larry Smith....poacher?
Topic Started: Nov 2 2011, 06:36 PM (12,783 Views)
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Hick were you on the Sask. trip where several of the boys ended up in hospital? Not Larry!
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Hickboy313
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Yes sir.that was our first year.Chris hadnt come along yet,larry had brought some andy fellow along from cornwall(andy white) maybe?..the 3 of us were talking to some natives outside front door of a bar i left and went back to rv in parking lot..me n buddy crashed there for night and larry knocked on door next morning..andy was in hospital and larry was pretty battered up too.Always wondered what really went down after i left
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Not Andy "White" but another colour. :lol!!!:

The story I heard is the natives did not appreciate the outsiders flirting with there girl friends. :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:
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Buckstopper
Nov 10 2011, 10:12 AM


The story I heard is the natives did not appreciate the outsiders flirting with there girl friends.  :yikes:  :yikes:  :yikes:


That's almost as dangerous as outsiders walking into a biker bar and start flirting with their women!... You're gonna wake up sore. lol :boxing:
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LoneWolf
Nov 10 2011, 10:49 AM
Buckstopper
Nov 10 2011, 10:12 AM


The story I heard is the natives did not appreciate the outsiders flirting with there girl friends.  :yikes:  :yikes:  :yikes:


That's almost as dangerous as outsiders walking into a biker bar and start flirting with their women!... You're gonna wake up sore. lol :boxing:

Been there, done that........
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Hickboy313
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LOL,it was a college bar.and as far as i knew they were single.i think it was more a case of us taking their fishies outta the pond
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I was visited by the MNR yesterday and asked to score Larry's Illinois deer.

The fine is based on an appraisal using the score as a base.

The CO was a bit disappointed in the final net score 139+ NT. which means it did not make the P&Y minimum of 155. Gross score was 165.

The 16 point rack has a 3X4 base frame scoring 101+ after 24+ inches of deductions. There are 38+ inches of non-typical points.

While the rack did not meet P&Y minimums it is an awesome rack with incredible mass on the right side. It just so happens that it looses big time because of the asymmetry and where the measurements are taken.

The CO would not talk about the case except to say at present there are no charges in Ontario.
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just saw this :omg:
is this Larry Smith who we all know the big buck killer :crazy: :crazy:
unbelievable what people do for a deer
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Buckstopper
Nov 17 2011, 07:59 AM
I was visited by the MNR yesterday and asked to score Larry's Illinois deer.

The fine is based on an appraisal using the score as a base.

The CO was a bit disappointed in the final net score 139+ NT. which means it did not make the P&Y minimum of 155. Gross score was 165.

The 16 point rack has a 3X4 base frame scoring 101+ after 24+ inches of deductions. There are 38+ inches of non-typical points.

While the rack did not meet P&Y minimums it is an awesome rack with incredible mass on the right side. It just so happens that it looses big time because of the asymmetry and where the measurements are taken.

The CO would not talk about the case except to say at present there are no charges in Ontario.

Thats to bad about the score. Funny thing about that is he (we) do not shoot a deer for its net score. We shoot a deer according to what we see, and that is gross score. Gross is what you see. I lobbied long and hard here in Minnesota to , one, get the fines raised for all deer killed, especially trophy class bucks. Two, that the fines are placed according to gross score. Remember that big 8 point that was poached down here a few years ago? Few yrs earlier that fine would have been no more then $1500.00 and jail time. As is, when he killed it he received a fine of over $23000.00 and jail time. That makes a difference. Remember, gross is what you see, and thats what we all shoot for. All the major collectors that I know use gross score as a criteria when deciding a value or a purchase. Its time that ALL F&W start using gross antler as a basis for penalty.
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Unless it is common practice for people to sell whitetail antlers in their state/province, which is illegal here in Ontario, then baseing the fines on antler score(antler monetary worth) really doesnt make sense.
I dont know this man, at all. But I have seen times when a hunter screws up and get charged for something, then automatically, according to everyones attitudes and stories, every animal he ever shot was most likely poached.
People screw up. If Larry Smith intentionally, illegally harvested a whitetail deer,(buck or doe) he should be punished for it.
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Partikle
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Buckstopper
Nov 17 2011, 09:59 AM
I was visited by the MNR yesterday and asked to score Larry's Illinois deer.


I never saw that buck Rick, were there any photo's of it on the forum?
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Whitepine
Nov 20 2011, 12:12 PM
Unless it is common practice for people to sell whitetail antlers in their state/province, which is illegal here in Ontario, then baseing the fines on antler score(antler monetary worth) really doesnt make sense.


Not implying its about value. Just stating that the higher the score the higher the fine should be.
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I am new to this site but I have been a subscriber to OMW Mag for 3 years now and I have seen this guy in the mag several times. I often had questioned how someone could have such a string of luck. I know outfitters in Alberta who focus on whitetails the entire year that don't harvest as many Giant animals this guy takes and that is their full-time job. If this guy is guilty I hope they hang him in the gallows if he is because you can't get much lower than that in this sport.

Ethics are the driving force in hunting and outdoorsmanship. What does this type of activity teach our new hunters and children? I hope they strip every record away from this guy if he is guilty. It should be like the Olympics where if you are caught doping they take away all your medals.

I think the worst part about this whole story is that he claimed to be honest and forthcoming throughout the whole process and he tricked allot of people into believing he was a man of stature. I saw how this post started with the bantering back and forth between guys who admired him and guys who questioned him.

Truth be told both sides lose in situations like this because those who admired him have had their trust betrayed and those who questioned him are proven right but at what cost.

This whole situation tarnishes the sport we all love and gives all of us a bad reputation. If you ask me, if this guy is guilty (yet to be proven) we are all losers on this subject.
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Very well said StandNapper and I agree 100%.
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Hickboy313
Nov 10 2011, 01:27 PM
LOL,it was a college bar.and as far as i knew they were single.i think it was more a case of us taking their fishies outta the pond

Hey Hickboy, if you were there like you say you were you would know the truth.

THERE WERE NO FISHIES, NO NATIVES...ONE STONED COLLEGE KID WITH FRIENDS,4 OF THEM AS MATTER OF FACT.

i WAS THERE! :boxing:
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Love the incogneto..Andy. Don't start in on this as a warning. there are lots there met the guy once and think the Sun shines out of you know where.
I am not saying anymore on this subject till he is aquitted or charged..
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I have just finished reading through this post, and I don't know this fellow but have admired his hunting accomplishments as an archer myself. If he is found guilty of what he is charged with he deserves what he reaps, and I say all of his accomplishments would be up for scrutiny. Not fair oh well he chose to cross a line a line many of us live by and carry into the woods all the time. Making a conscious decision to cross those lines especially for someone promoting it in the public eye (should he be found guilty), erases credibility and puts lots up for question.Its like any kind of cheating, what did you think would be the outcome?Very sad for the hunting community
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Hickboy313
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andywhite
Dec 22 2011, 10:28 PM
Hickboy313
Nov 10 2011, 01:27 PM
LOL,it was a college bar.and as far as i knew they were single.i think it was more a case of us taking their fishies outta the pond

Hey Hickboy, if you were there like you say you were you would know the truth.

THERE WERE NO FISHIES, NO NATIVES...ONE STONED COLLEGE KID WITH FRIENDS,4 OF THEM AS MATTER OF FACT.

i WAS THERE! :boxing:

I seem to remember sitting at a table with you and larry..2 ladies joined us and sat down for drinks..at the end of night i went back to rv and crashed..next morning larry showed up at door all beaten up and said You were in hospital...now i also remember yoous telling derrick and i that you`s were talking to 2 native lads about big bucks..next thing ya know one of the natives is standing behing larry and Pisses on him!! larry turns around to see lad doing so turns back to face other guy and thats when he kicks larry in nuts larry goes down and they put boots to him you run over and gert jumped too..so what am i missing here??..was there an updated version of the story i never got wind of??...i also remember your lil close encounter with some coyotes

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I believe the floor is yours andy white

Now I'm going to make some popcorn, Anyone else ?
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:so?: :werd: :chillaxin:
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:coffee:
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paulslund
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bigr
Jan 9 2012, 08:53 PM
I believe the floor is yours andy white

Now I'm going to make some popcorn, Anyone else ?

Extra butter on mine, please...

:D
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Wow, I thought this was a hunting forum. :boxing: :crazy:
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OK Guys Just got off the Phone with the MNR enforcement guys.
Larry Smith has pleaded Guilty and been charged with possessing illegally killed wildlife form Illinois.
He was not found guilty, but pleaded to it.
He has forfeited the deer head to the Ministry and been charged $1000.00
The MNR guys said they were forwarding the info to Illinois, hoping it would help them there with their own investigation.
Larry did plead to some charge in Illinois, something like falsifying records or something. But they are not done there yet.
So my Question is, what happens now with FROW and King of the Woods? Probably too late to recover any prizes but hopefully the second place guy in each year Smith won gets recognition on being the King of the woods? Yes or No?
And should his records be pulled from the FROW book? What about Pope and Young?
We all know they do not take this stuff lightly.
Curious to see what comes to light given these charges and pleading guilty.
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well the part that kills me is if you look at the one picture of his deer with the eyes sucked out of his head.. any and i mean any hunter knows that this is not a fresh deer kill ... that is why i hate most hunting competitions
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i am glad i dont follow this type of logic, based on the way i read it, and i might be wrong in which i have no problem apologizing for being wrong, but a different analogy would be if he killed someone and got charged should he be charged and found guilty for all non solved murders?

He pled guilty of something in the US, didnt get charged or plead guilty to anything here in Ontario, i would agree with you whole heartedly if he is found to be guilty in Ontario.

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Dobber I beleive these are Ontario charges. His Illinois charges are still pending.
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Guess I missed something HE HAS BEEN CHARGED IN ONTARIO.
The MNR is forwarding the info to Illinois as the charges are still pending there.
The charges stem form a deer he admitted to possesing illegally taken in Illinios.
Don't know how much more plainly I can say it.
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I sent an email to the Cornwall paper to see if they had anything. This was done in Cornwall Ontario this week
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His records and reputation are now permanently tainted and rightfully so.
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Problem is , Frow would not know what animals came from where. He paid his money and unless someone can or Frow can prove "IF" a particular deer came from out of province or illegal activities, He has every right to not have them removed. Jack ass thing for him to want if he dose but as for FROW, I think there is nothing that can be done ?
I feel for FROW about this but I think the drive should be about Larry asking for the or these deer to be removed quietly. His bad reputation should not effect anyone else's reputation IMOP.
As for contests and prizes, Blame Larry if you can prove a deer was entered by BS.
No one from FROW I'm sure asked him to enter a poached deer.
He did all this on his own without Frow knowing.
Again they did there best to run a contest for everyone and one guy pulled one or 2 over on everyone !
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Not arguing with you BigR but i know if it were pope and young or BC they would be done. Look at Ben Johnson look at Pete rose all those guys lost everything ben was convicted on one and lost all maybe he was not doping on the other JMO
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Partikle
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Lance Armstrong is in the news again today for doping. If he is found guilty all his Tour de France titles will be stripped. Many Olympic athletes have had their medals taken away after they tested positive for drugs many years later.

FROW is a private organization, they can do what they want. It is their decision and if they choose to remove his records, what is he going to do about it? Do you really think he would hire a lawyer and pay big bucks to fight to get his records back in in a private book? I am sure he is embarrassed enough right now and does not want any more attention on this.

I feel for the guy, from everything I've heard he is a top notch hunter and a great guy but he made some bad decisions. It's too bad for everyone involved; Ontario Hunters reputations, FROW, King of the Woods, and for Larry too.
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Quote:
 
He has every right to not have them removed


Ray, entry into a privately owned publication is anything but a "right". FROW has every "right" to strike him from their records books if they so choose.
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OntGobbler
Jun 14 2012, 09:57 AM
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He has every right to not have them removed


Ray, entry into a privately owned publication is anything but a "right". FROW has every "right" to strike him from their records books if they so choose.

I guess if they give him his money back which I think they would.
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I would not give him a cent back
All I can say is lucky i did not finish second behind him or there would be some serious issuees being taken up to get the 15K he took from someone that deserved it.
If i were the two guys that did i would be making some inquires..
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Well it all falls on Larry if in fact the deer he entered are in question, he signed the paper work and agreed to all conditions. If the 2 witnesses signed the paperwork then FROW has done their due diligence and in order to enter the deer the witness has to sign his/her life away saying that they saw the deer within 24 hours of the kill. The trick is going to be able to prove the deer he entered were not taken in Ontario or by means other than stipulated in the contest. Not sure how that will be proved, or disproved at this point and unless he faces charges with them exact deer entered, he is free and clear and the truth will always be in question but not guilty, hence the term innocent till proven guilty

Should a contestant be found guilty of cheating and/or not being in full compliance with contest rules after prizes have been awarded, they are responsible to return all prizes or pay the retail value of prize package including applicable taxes within 30 days of notice.
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Ok before everyone jumps on me for Hanging Larry and gang here is the story as emailed to me by a friend at the MNR.
Looks bad for Chris Kiernan he got the brunt of the charges. Guess it is easy to be a member of the 900 club several times if in fact you have a private hunting ground where no hunting allowed.. hell Buckstopper you could be there in a flash..
Garrett Armstrong of Elite Achery and Larry Smith of Chesterville were charged with a fraction of what Chris got..Again just charged read on..

http://www.morrisdailyherald.com/articles/...88448/index.xml
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